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How Do You Set EQ?

This may be the most complicated question raised on TB. The question of EQ and bass tone has been discussed and debated in detail here for at least 15 years.

Post #18 by Wasnex is spot on and its worth spending time thinking through his post. Agedhorse is also THE fount of knowledge when it comes to amps.

I've noticed that when I turn down all my treble and mids the bass can seem thin and hollow in the mix - even with the low frequency boosted. One of the major reasons is that, for most of us, our gear has a difficult time reproducing the fundamental frequency (e.g., 41.2 hz for low E) at sufficient volume.

However, another major reason is how we as humans perceive low frequency. There are lots of harmonics produced by our instruments, even the "dark" ones. Keeping some of the harmonics allows the human ear (actually human brain) perceive a deeper bass. I know, it's counter intuitive but the more I play around with my EQ, I find a bit of treble (up to around the flat setting) actually generates a richer and perceptively deeper bass.

As Agedhorse notes, all gear is a different and designed to emphasize different frequencies, I'm sharing my observation based on the classic Ampeg tone controls.

You have to experiment and listen critically.
 
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The name of our instrument is in a way misleading. We talk, bass this bass that...fact is true bass is the last thing we need as "bassists". The only thing that stops us being lost is the mid range. Loose the bass on ur amp and boost mids with a touch of top end....
And before everyone starts on about "but u need some bass" Bass frequencies even within a mid range tone coaless away from the speakers...whether PA or backline....You actually need very little bass input to sound bassy out on the floor/showground.
 
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This is such a ridiculously broad and stupid question that I don't know how to search for existing threads. I know, in the end, it's going to boil down to "Just use yer ears, mate," but a little head start would help.

I don't play at drum volume a lot. Never have. Now I'm jamming covers with these guys, walking cold into practice rooms, plugging in and struggling to sound good. Struggling to be audible without being too loud.

The backline gear is not the issue. Last night it was a Darkglass Microtubes of some sort (into I-don't-know-what-cab); last time it was an Aguilar Tone Hammer. I'm driving a P with a Lindy through a MarkBass Compressore, into the head. I'm moving my fingers from the neck back to the bridge, trying to find a spot where the E string isn't invisible and the D string isn't massive.

The question, I think, is figuring out what room nodes (is that the term?) are doing to the tonal balance and using EQ to counter them. (In retrospect, I think last night I was primarily standing in a horrible place, next to a wall across the room from the cab.) And also, how to find a place to live alongside the two guitar players and keyboard player.

So yeah. How do you do that? You walk into a room, you're getting set up; where do you start with the EQ?
I start by turning up to the actual volume I’ll be playing at. It’s easy to set eq at low volume then realize everything sounds different when turned up to concert volume.

Next I just listen for what “shouldn’t” be there. Excessive boom or ice-pick highs, for example. I’ll try highpass filtering first, to try to fix the boominess. And/or try to identify the other offending frequencies and dial them out.

Often, simply removing what’s bad does the trick.

If not, I’ll listen for anything that’s “missing”. Maybe some low mid punch or high end sparkle. Then try to identify those frequencies and either gently bump them up a little, or cut the surrounding frequencies, for a similar effect.

Also, for what I like, compression is a part of the eq equation as well. It can help make the bass punchier and/or more audible in a mix, without having to resort to bumping up eq frequencies, for example.
 
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I start flat. Then, I treat the treble and bass knobs as my "filters" (to get rid of things on the edges that I don't want), and use the mids to really shape the tone.

I heavily reduce treble, often down to the 1–2.5 range, but sometimes all the way to 0. I think treble sounds like garbage in any bass tone I've ever sought. There's better clarity and presence, and less noise without it IMO.

I slightly reduce bass to tame muddiness/boominess to fit the room and the mix.

Then I tweak the midrange as needed. Accentuate low midrange for a classic bass sound. Accentuate high midrange for a brighter tone.

With the mids, if I stray from flat at all, it's always a boost, never a cut. Mid scooped bass sounds are another thing that sounds like garbage to me.

My typical SVT practice settings with a loud two guitar rock band follow. All settings are with bass controls dimed, unless noted. The amp is always on the standard input, with both boost switches off. All strings are flats or tapes.

Classic alnico P-Bass:

Gain: 3-4
Bass: 2.5–3.5
Midrange: 7
Mid band selector: 2
Treble: 2–3
Master: 5–6

Stingray (pre-EB):

Gain: 3
Bass: 3–4 (but also slightly tamped on the bass)
Midrange: 7
Mid band selector: 3
Treble: 3–4 (but also heavily tamped on the bass)
Master: 4-5

G&L 2K or 1K:

Standard input, both boost switches off
Gain: 3–3.5
Bass: 3–3.5
Midrange: 5
Mid band selector: 3
Treble: 1–2
Master: 4-5

G&L SB-1/2 (split MFD):

Gain: 4–5
Bass: 4–5
Midrange: 5–6
Mid band selector: 3
Treble: 4–5
Master: 4–5

Clearly, the SB-1 is the closest to how I like my tone most of the time. It sounds perfect or nearly perfect with everything at noon, and I just tweak a little this way or that situationally. It's basically just a higher powered P Bass (ceramic magnets with massive pole pieces).
 
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The question, I think, is figuring out what room nodes (is that the term?) are doing to the tonal balance and using EQ to counter them.

OK, having studied Acoustics and having done a lot of FOH work, the first thing you need to know is that room modes do different things to different areas of the room - a room mode that adds a lot in one place (that's an antinode), will, when you get to a node, actually take away that same frequency there. So, rule 1 - you don't do eq adjustments from FOH, or any one spot, for that matter. A lot of times when I've done FOH, what it sounds like in the booth is not at all like what it sounds like in the seats. You're there to make the audience seats sound good, not your seat.

Usually, you put on a recording of some music you know well, and you walk the room, noting what sticks out - what is there that's calling attention to itself that shouldn't. You find that frequency by talking a parametric eq section, turning it up, and sweeping it around until you hear it adding even more of the frequency range that's calling too much attention to itself. Now that you've found the frequency that needs to be trimmed, you turn that frequency range down. Once that's done, it's rinse and repeat for other frequencies, making sure you're improving things by turning the eq you've added off here and there - comparing with and without eq to see if it sounds better. After you've added a few key dips, you'll find that adding more doesn't help it sound better - at that point, you stop - you're done.

That's for FOH. As for any eq on my bass, that's done at home - I practice with headphones, and gig with in ears. I have an ew that has settings for every bass I have - that and the bass I use define my sound, and it's completely divorced from that room. My feed to FOH is via a DI on my pedalboard - I have the signal I need to hear myself well in my rig, and FOH is free to do whatever they want to my signal to make it work in the mix and in the room.
 
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This is such a ridiculously broad and stupid question that I don't know how to search for existing threads. I know, in the end, it's going to boil down to "Just use yer ears, mate," but a little head start would help.

I don't play at drum volume a lot. Never have. Now I'm jamming covers with these guys, walking cold into practice rooms, plugging in and struggling to sound good. Struggling to be audible without being too loud.

The backline gear is not the issue. Last night it was a Darkglass Microtubes of some sort (into I-don't-know-what-cab); last time it was an Aguilar Tone Hammer. I'm driving a P with a Lindy through a MarkBass Compressore, into the head. I'm moving my fingers from the neck back to the bridge, trying to find a spot where the E string isn't invisible and the D string isn't massive.

The question, I think, is figuring out what room nodes (is that the term?) are doing to the tonal balance and using EQ to counter them. (In retrospect, I think last night I was primarily standing in a horrible place, next to a wall across the room from the cab.) And also, how to find a place to live alongside the two guitar players and keyboard player.

So yeah. How do you do that? You walk into a room, you're getting set up; where do you start with the EQ?
Personally, I'm starting with a 1982 passive Jazz. It has an all-maple neck and the 70's era pickup spacing (4" center to center). It sounds a little brighter and has a lot more sustain than my '65 Jazz did that I bought in 1966 and was stolen from me in 1976. I run the V, V, and T, knobs all the way up. I run through either Eden or DNA amps, which are known for their clear, clean, articulate, and warm sound.

With the Eden amps I run everything flat except for the low-mids. I'll boost the low-mids to about 1:30 at either 250Hz or 500Hz, depending which amp I'm using. With my DNA-800 amp I also boost the low-mids the same amount. The low-mids control on it is set at 500Hz. I also run just a touch of boost (to about 1 o'clock) on the DNA Bass EQ because the Bass EQ on the Eden is a shelving control at 30Hz and on the DNA amp it's set at 35Hz. Just a little bump in that Bass EQ makes it sound like my Eden Bass EQ set flat.

One of the key comments you made was that you don't play at drums volume much. How loud you are playing makes a huge difference in your EQ settings. At bedroom practice levels, the human ear doesn't hear the bass or treble very well but has no trouble with the mids. To sound good at those low levels you typically will boost both the bass and the treble and may cut the low-mids. That is basically what most amps "shape" control ("enhance" control with Eden) does and also what those "loudness" buttons did on stereo receivers.

But then you start playing with a group at what you call drum level and all of a sudden your sound is muddy and gets lost in the mix. You can hear when your stop playing, but can't really hear the individual notes. AND, if you cut the low-mids, you pretty well disappear entirely. The Low-Mids are the sonic space that the bass lives in. The lowest bass frequencies belong to the kick drum. The guitars and keys own the high-mids and highs. The bass gets the low mids. The low mids give the bass presence and definition in the mix. Dial down the low-mids and you dial yourself out of the mix.

It doesn't take much boost in the low mids to get you that presence and definition and anywhere between about 250Hz and 550Hz will do the trick. If you put in too much boost in your low mids, your sound will honk at you. If that happens, just slowly dial down the boost until the honk goes away. That will make a big difference in how you sound and what you hear playing in a group.

Room anomalies are something else. When you have a bouncy stage, you almost always end up with a boomy bass sound. If the walls are covered with drapes, that will eat your highs. If you have a semi-parametric control on the amp you can usually locate the problem by setting the boost up to 3 o'clock and then starting at your lowest frequency, have someone slowly sweep through the frequencies addressable on that control while you play something that goes all the way across your strings. when you hit a frequency that's being reinforced but the room it will really jump out at you. If you hit a frequency that is being sucked out by the room that frequency will be much quieter than the others and is also very noticeable.

When you find that frequency, boost it a little or cut it a little and continue to do so slowly until it is no longer a problem. Then, you will sound good where you are standing in the room with the reflections you get off the walls and ceilings. Just be aware that the sound will change depending upon where you are hearing it from. The bass gets a lot of reinforcement off the back wall if you're standing close to it as well as any corners you're close to. The Dance floor may be totally different. I always use my wireless while we're doing a sound check and walk the dance floor, the table area, and the perimeter listening for the balance of sound.

I pay a lot more attention to the dance floor and table areas than the edges of the room. Usually a bar is on one of the perimeter walls and I want to make sure they can take orders while we are playing. Louder is better at the tables and loudest is best on the dance floor. Just coincidentally, your sound drops off by 6db every time you double the distance from your amp, so it naturally gets lower and lower as you move away from the stage.
 
HOW flat R. the shuttle 9 amplifiers? I feel like I'm getting very similar tones from the shuttle, my mark bass little mark 2, and my fender rumble head which I set at true flat
Note the almost complete lack of agreement on the comments. This highlights how different personal tastes are. It also shows reasons for the difficulties many players experience with the concept of eq, and why fully parametric eq’s are not common in the MI industry.

Also, the almost constant references to “flat” and “12:00” is ironic because most bass amps are not flat with the controls at 12:00, their response is as the designer intended to appeal to a particular family of tonal tastes.
 
HOW flat R. the shuttle 9 amplifiers? I feel like I'm getting very similar tones from the shuttle, my mark bass little mark 2, and my fender rumble head which I set at true flat
There's some voicing but overall it's pretty neutral/flat in the Shuttles. The Streamliners are entirely different however.
 
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Start with Mids* on 10, bass and treble on 0, set your volume to be a little louder than the kick, not quite as loud as the snare. Then, dial in some treble so the that top sounds 'open' but not piercing, dial in some bass until the point that it crosses from being fat to muddy. Then if the tone is to mid rangey, dial it back a bit. There's your tone. There is a madness to this method I have explained before, I just don't have the time to type it all out right now.

*if you have low and high mids, pin them both and switch between one or the other being at 10 and the other being a little less than that. You'll definitely like one over the other. Then continue with the rest.
 
Start with Mids* on 10, bass and treble on 0, set your volume to be a little louder than the kick, not quite as loud as the snare. Then, dial in some treble so the that top sounds 'open' but not piercing, dial in some bass until the point that it crosses from being fat to muddy. Then if the tone is to mid rangey, dial it back a bit. There's your tone. There is a madness to this method I have explained before, I just don't have the time to type it all out right now.

*if you have low and high mids, pin them both and switch between one or the other being at 10 and the other being a little less than that. You'll definitely like one over the other. Then continue with the rest.

Oh my, no!

If the amp has a Baxandall or James type tone control topology, that would be a massive amount of mid boost (on the D-800 for example that would result in greater than 20dB of boost which would sound positively awful for 99% of players.

What yo are suggesting might apply more to a fender tone stack type eq which is entirely different from what many amps use.
 
This is of interest to me. Do you mind sharing how you do this? Is it a stand-alone unit you bring to gigs or software you run through a computer? Phone app maybe?
Sadly, the thing I used to share is obsolete. It was a Visual Basic program that ran on a PC. I don't use anything at gigs, just at home to analyze amps and speakers.

Trying to maintain a program that will install and work on multiple different computers without headaches is more than I want to attempt, these days. Keeping up with OS versions and App Stores is too much. The other problem is that actually getting all of the right settings to get a good measurement and not a misleading one is actually hard.

There's a thing called "visual analyzer" that I like:

Download

I also have a waveform file that generates a "tone cluster" and is useful for measuring response curves, but is just a MP3 or WAV file that you play on your PC.

GitHub - bassistTech/toneClusterWaveform: Tone cluster waveform for audio analysis
 
My stage volume and tone are up to me, what the crowd hears is up to the sound guy. I will try to get out on wireless and hear what the room sounds like. My GK's, 750RB-II and 1001RB-II, whichever one I'm using, start out flat and the 4 EQ knobs don't move more than a small turn in either direction. I don't think I've ever been beyond 11:00 and 1:00 on any of them and usually less. No matter how different the rooms sound its usually just a small tweak away. I also elevate my cab on an 8" stand. The boomiest of stages I just have to roll my bass and low mids off a bit. Same if it's a dead stage or my strings are getting a little old, just a little tweak on the hi mids and treble and it's there.
 
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I usually set my EQ with the knobs, lol. Flat, always start flat. IF the tone needs tweaking, I strongly prefer to do it with a passive tone knob and playing technique. If an amp needs major knob twiddling, it is on it's way out the door for me. Exception would be double bass gigs where I am EQ'ing a boomy room to tame feedback.
Completely agree. Either I like the amp's own tone or I don't. I'm not wasting time or money on an amp I have to fight to get a sound I like. Example from the 90s: no amount of twiddling will make a Stingray through a Redhead sound like an AVRI or legit old Pbass through a B15. Guess what I have now? Among a few other things like the aforementioned Streamliner.
P.s. I also wanted to make that wisecrack so great job
 
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This is such a ridiculously broad and stupid question that I don't know how to search for existing threads. I know, in the end, it's going to boil down to "Just use yer ears, mate," but a little head start would help.

I don't play at drum volume a lot. Never have. Now I'm jamming covers with these guys, walking cold into practice rooms, plugging in and struggling to sound good. Struggling to be audible without being too loud.

The backline gear is not the issue. Last night it was a Darkglass Microtubes of some sort (into I-don't-know-what-cab); last time it was an Aguilar Tone Hammer. I'm driving a P with a Lindy through a MarkBass Compressore, into the head. I'm moving my fingers from the neck back to the bridge, trying to find a spot where the E string isn't invisible and the D string isn't massive.

The question, I think, is figuring out what room nodes (is that the term?) are doing to the tonal balance and using EQ to counter them. (In retrospect, I think last night I was primarily standing in a horrible place, next to a wall across the room from the cab.) And also, how to find a place to live alongside the two guitar players and keyboard player.

So yeah. How do you do that? You walk into a room, you're getting set up; where do you start with the EQ?
Where you stand can make a huge difference with bass frequencies. You’ll need to experiment with that. My approach is usually to identify the frequencies the room is highlighting that I don’t like first and try to reduce them with eq. Sometimes that’s enough and a slight volume boost gets me there. Sometimes I may boost low mids or cut highs depending on the result I’ve achieved so far from cutting the nasties. Every venue will demand it’s own approach. Now that you’re playing with other instruments you’ll learn what works as you go.
Bedroom settings rarely cut it in a band context. You may need more mids and less lows to be heard.
 
Bedroom settings rarely cut it in a band context

Are people still really using the smiley face "bedroom" setting at home? Guess its a teen thing huh. I practise in my lounge..... P bass, dead flats, bass tone off, bass off of my BA110 and its fun cause even with noise outside mowers, kids, planes, traffic...that dry mid range tone cuts through it all, sounds darn good.
 
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I like to start from the beginning . Make sure your bridge and pickup heights are set correctly for the strings. From what I read in your thread you might want to either lower the G and D pickup sections and raise the E pickup sections a tad..... or raise the G saddle and lower the E saddle on the bridge (then re-intonate) . Once you have all strings sounding out relatively equally using a strong pluck , move to the head. ( careful not to get chorusing or distortion .. from being too close to the pickups). The optimum heights for strings and pickups on specific basses can be found online .
Then watch for any pedals with EQ capability before hitting the amp or (in the effects loop). If your cable is longer than 20 feet look into a good quality buffer to keep the highs.
Too much low end ( volume or Freq. will intrude on the kick drum and you might get mush. I like around 40-60 hz at around 9 o'clock for lows . I like 200-300 in low mids at 10 O'clock ( 400 seems boxy to me), I prefer 800 for high mids at around noon ( I stay away from 1k..thats where I seem to find the dreaded gank and clicking) I put a small touch of 2K for sheen.
I guess the main thing is to be aware of the intrusion of deep lows. The mids cut through... not the deep lows.
Another nice trick is to find all the sweet spots on the head and bass. Go through each volume knob looking for the point of most change. (ex.. turn up.. quiet , turn up.. still kinda quiet, then suddenly a jump louder . that's the sweet spot.) I mark it on the heads and bass with a little tape and felt marker until I remember each location .
These things work for me but we all hear things differently . There has been a lot of great advice here. Hope it helps you . Have fun experimenting!!