How good are you at transposing "on the fly"?

[Groove Doctor]

1. First thing is analysing a song to understand the relative chord patterns. Use the I-IV-vi-V7 or NNS system - whatever suits you best. This is absolutely essential to understand the rest, and it makes it 10 times easier once this has been done.

2. Next is practicing transposing songs AT HOME. It will be easier with a notepad at first. The Jazz pros say to transpose a song into all 12 keys, so try that on paper to get your brain used to it & up to speed. You’ll notice you get much faster and make fewer errors the more you practice this for every song.

3. Put on a recording of a song AT HOME and use pitch-shifting software to play along to it in a bunch of new keys. Some will be easy, some really hard at first but you’ll get better with practice at home. Read from paper first if you need to, then look away to help cement it into your brain.

4. Ask for the NEW key signatures in advance and do your homework before the next rehearsal or gig.

 

[Element Zero]

Not an issue I would think for most people… unless you’re playing riff based music ie lots of rock/metal and are expected/required to play “as close as possible to the recording”

 

[Groove Doctor]

The really tight situations are when a BL does this live ... or even crazier/funnier, a BL who is a capo using guitar player mis-capo's just as they are kicking off a tune live. This has happened to me more times than I can count and you just go with it and hold on tight.
As Richie Blackmore is known to have said to his Rainbow band members before a particularly exciting song "hold on gents, its every man for himself"

I’ve had guitarists do this live - capo on wrong fret. It was first song of a grand opening event. Had to stop the song, move capo and restart the song.

Another gig for encore the guitarist picked up the wrong guitar, tuned down a tone. I had to transpose that on the fly. Took me three bars to work out what happened and fix it. He gave me funny looks, but realised by the first chorus it was him that screwed up.

This is an opportunity to get better at something you’re currently not really comfortable with.

That’s a PRO attitude right there!

Relying on pitch-shifting tech is a great way to stifle your growth and eventually work yourself into a position where it costs you a gig.

I played a gig with a keyboard player who never learned all his keys and just used the transpose function. His setup broke, someone loaned him keys that didn't transpose the same, and he couldn't play half the gig. Got fired that night.

If you want to play with others then put the work in.

My teacher once said "The day you find something that's difficult, or that you cannot do at all, is a great day and you should celebrate. It just gave you a roadmap to get better. You know exactly what to do and you know that if you do you'll become a better musician from it."

This. It’s an opportunity to grow as a musician, paying your dues, earning the right to be on that stage. You don’t need no pitch shifter. You can do this.

 

[logdrum]

Get iReal Pro. There is a forum where you can get the chords for most songs, even Lizzos or Rhianna's. Turn off the bass and play along and transpose away. A week of that you'll be a pro - no pun intended

 

[sean_on_bass]

I recently started working as part of duo, with a singer-guitarist. We're building up a 3-hour set from scratch, so I'm learning a lot of songs mostly by downloading lyrics and chords from Ultimate Guitar.

From time to time we start rehearsing and he asks me change the key of the song from what I've learned it in (typically, the key it was recorded in by the original artist) to a new key that he's better able to sing it in. (Note: I have no problem with this ... I think it's important that we play in a key he can comfortably sing in.)

Whereas he can whack on a capo and effect an instant key change, I have to try to immediately transpose what I've learned into the new key. Too often I'm making mistakes, especially when the key change is to an uncommon key with lots of awkward sharps and flats.

I'm tossing up whether I should grit my teeth and just "get better", or whether I should just create some pitch-shift presets on my Zoom B6 effects pedal to do the transposing for me.

What do you think I should do?

Do you have trouble transposing on the fly? Am I just an inadequate bass player who needs to get more proficient at the skill of transposing?

I played with one of these capo people one time. Since i knew ahead of time they wanted some songs in different keys, i charted out the tunes using the Nashville number system and brought those notes to the gig. Got through 3 sets and we never rehearsed!

So that's my recommendation. Learn the songs by chord number if possible. Also get his list of songs with keys if he can provide it. A 5 string bass is a good idea as well, i think it's a great tool for gigs like this.

I'll be honest, i hate capos with a passion, and think they are for lazy players. As a guitarist myself, i've for some reason never had the urge to use one. As a bassist, it annoys the hell out of me when they can't even tell me the real key and instead say something like "key of A with capo on 2." Instead of just saying to play it in B, they give you a riddle instead.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I recently started working as part of duo, with a singer-guitarist. We're building up a 3-hour set from scratch, so I'm learning a lot of songs mostly by downloading lyrics and chords from Ultimate Guitar.

From time to time we start rehearsing and he asks me change the key of the song from what I've learned it in (typically, the key it was recorded in by the original artist) to a new key that he's better able to sing it in. (Note: I have no problem with this ... I think it's important that we play in a key he can comfortably sing in.)

Whereas he can whack on a capo and effect an instant key change, I have to try to immediately transpose what I've learned into the new key. Too often I'm making mistakes, especially when the key change is to an uncommon key with lots of awkward sharps and flats.

I'm tossing up whether I should grit my teeth and just "get better", or whether I should just create some pitch-shift presets on my Zoom B6 effects pedal to do the transposing for me.

What do you think I should do?

Do you have trouble transposing on the fly? Am I just an inadequate bass player who needs to get more proficient at the skill of transposing?

Locate off the root, and play positionally by intervals. For instance, Find the foot note. The 5th is either 1 string down and two frets up, or one string up on the same fret.

Now your not going to be able to get by playing the flight of the bumble bee, or something really complicated with a lot of accidentals without working it out, but for most pop music playing by intervals does work.

 

[David McIntire]

I learn every song I perform in two keys. One using open positions. One using closed positions. Once I know a song in a closed position, I know it every closed position, in other words, every key. I was caught with my pants down in several situations like this when I was young. This style of preparation increased my knowledge of a tune, and my retention of the tune. Thus reducing my nerves on cold calls and sub gigs.

 

[mrcbass]

Depends on the song and the line, but I can generally do it pretty easily. I also tend to lean on patterns (I know my notes, but when playing I think in patterns. Generally speaking, if I need open strings for my I need them so transposing those songs is more troublesome for me.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

There are some riff-based music that require the open strings. Other than those, I think playing a fretted string instrument has the advantage of being able to shift the position and play in whatever key pretty easily. It's even easier if you play a 5+ string bass.

 

[coyote1]

Transposing on the fly should be no problem at all on a fretted string instrument. Just like slapping on a capo.

If it’s an issue for you, you need to study your instrument.

 

[MrLenny1]

No, I play 5 string basses and that helps.
Know you're neck. Cycle of fourths in all 12 keys.

 

[drumvsbass]

All the theory and NNS in the world won't help you play 46+2 in C# in standard tuning.

Sorry.... Trollish.

Learn NNS and how it applies to the fingerboard, learn the major and minor pentatonic shapes, watch a Gary Willis video where you can switch to ANY key from ANYWHERE on the fingerboard with just those 2 shapes, achieve mastery, or continue grabbing the neck like a baseball bat, learn galloping triplets, have an iconic career, make millions. Your choice. Or maybe have it thrust upon you, be born into a musical family, learn to play bass with your 4 older brothers in during the greatest time on earth to be a bassist, become Victor Wooten, change how metal guitarists play... The universe is hostile... Grab extra chromosome, evolve into a 13 armed bass playing beast, become next major movement in metal.

...Sorry weird day at the rock star factory. File under things I probably should have edited before I posted if post at all...

 

[JonathanPDX]

I’ve had guitarists do this live - capo on wrong fret. It was first song of a grand opening event. Had to stop the song, move capo and restart the song.

Another gig for encore the guitarist picked up the wrong guitar, tuned down a tone. I had to transpose that on the fly. Took me three bars to work out what happened and fix it. He gave me funny looks, but realised by the first chorus it was him that screwed up.

I had a sub gig a few years back with a very well-known local guitarist, really know as a top-notch player but also a guy who might "test" you a bit. It was his first time giving me a shot to sub with his band so I considered it a big opportunity to pick up some good gigs with a higher tier of player.

Him: "Okay, jump swing in A, uptown changes." (He plays a quick A7 chord)
Me: "Got it, swing in A." (I play an A)
Him: "A one two three four."

CHAOS. APOCALYPSE. PURE DISASTER.

He's soloing to start the tune, the organ player and drummer are grooving hard, I'm walking, and it sounds like the end of the world. Something is so very wrong. And everyone starts looking at me like it's my fault. I'm staring at my hands going "This is A right? Am I having a stroke? No, this is freakin' A right here, look I'll just pedal the open string, maybe it's out of tune? Nope, tuner says it's fine. So why does it sound so bad?"

I'm panicking, the guitarist is scowling at me, and I just start walking chromatically all over the place trying to find something that sounds better. I stop looking at my hands and just listen for notes that sounds less awful. I find one note, then another, okay now this is better. I found the key. Wait a minute, this isn't A.

I lean over to the organ player and shout "What the hell is going on?"

He laughs and says "Oh yeah, sometimes he gets A and Bb mixed up. You gotta watch for that."

 

[Element Zero]

I had a sub gig a few years back with a very well-known local guitarist, really know as a top-notch player but also a guy who might "test" you a bit. It was his first time giving me a shot to sub with his band so I considered it a big opportunity to pick up some good gigs with a higher tier of player.

Him: "Okay, jump swing in A, uptown changes." (He plays a quick A7 chord)
Me: "Got it, swing in A." (I play an A)
Him: "A one two three four."

CHAOS. APOCALYPSE. PURE DISASTER.

He's soloing to start the tune, the organ player and drummer are grooving hard, I'm walking, and it sounds like the end of the world. Something is so very wrong. And everyone starts looking at me like it's my fault. I'm staring at my hands going "This is A right? Am I having a stroke? No, this is freakin' A right here, look I'll just pedal the open string, maybe it's out of tune? Nope, tuner says it's fine. So why does it sound so bad?"

I'm panicking, the guitarist is scowling at me, and I just start walking chromatically all over the place trying to find something that sounds better. I stop looking at my hands and just listen for notes that sounds less awful. I find one note, then another, okay now this is better. I found the key. Wait a minute, this isn't A.

I lean over to the organ player and shout "What the hell is going on?"

He laughs and says "Oh yeah, sometimes he gets A and Bb mixed up. You gotta watch for that."

That’s the stuff of nightmares for me.

 

[Fynn]

Disclaimer: Sorry if this has already been mentioned by someone else, but I don't feel like reading through this entire thread at the moment haha

Sounds like you're thinking about the notes you're playing when you play. I play mostly with patterns. I read the chords on a sheet, think about what would be the best way to make that progression happen on my bass, and then I just remember the pattern I'm playing pretty much.
That could lead to potential problems, but at the same time, I can transpose pretty much instantaneously, because I just have to shift the pattern. Until you reach a place where you get to open strings and such, but that should still only take a few seconds, till you figure out whats going on.
Ideally I feel like you shouldn't need to think about what you're playing at all, until it comes time to solo, or someone from the band gives a cue to do something special. But when you're not occupied with too much thinking, then it's way easier to master these situations as they arise.

 

[Ostie]

You wouldn’t have had to transpose on the fly if the BL had previously given you the key changes. Pretty important info to have.

 

[Fynn]

I had a sub gig a few years back with a very well-known local guitarist, really know as a top-notch player but also a guy who might "test" you a bit. It was his first time giving me a shot to sub with his band so I considered it a big opportunity to pick up some good gigs with a higher tier of player.

Him: "Okay, jump swing in A, uptown changes." (He plays a quick A7 chord)
Me: "Got it, swing in A." (I play an A)
Him: "A one two three four."

CHAOS. APOCALYPSE. PURE DISASTER.

He's soloing to start the tune, the organ player and drummer are grooving hard, I'm walking, and it sounds like the end of the world. Something is so very wrong. And everyone starts looking at me like it's my fault. I'm staring at my hands going "This is A right? Am I having a stroke? No, this is freakin' A right here, look I'll just pedal the open string, maybe it's out of tune? Nope, tuner says it's fine. So why does it sound so bad?"

I'm panicking, the guitarist is scowling at me, and I just start walking chromatically all over the place trying to find something that sounds better. I stop looking at my hands and just listen for notes that sounds less awful. I find one note, then another, okay now this is better. I found the key. Wait a minute, this isn't A.

I lean over to the organ player and shout "What the hell is going on?"

He laughs and says "Oh yeah, sometimes he gets A and Bb mixed up. You gotta watch for that."

Had a great argument with a keyboarder once. During break, he asked me what I was playing on the previous song, because it sounded weird to him. I showed him what I was playing and told him the notes that I was playing. He tried to play the same thing that I told him on his keyboard and went "that can't be it, you're doing something wrong".
I looked at my fretboard and put all my brainpower into figuring out what I was playing. I ended up with the same result again and again. Then he told me to play the first note. I played the first note, and told him what it was. He played the same note on his keyboard, but it was way out of tune. Then I looked at him and said that maybe I was really out of tune. I couldn't believe it, but I walked towards my floor tuner, wondering how my bass could've been that badly out of tune. I checked the tuner, and everything was spot on. I walked back to him, and told him I was 100% in tuned correctly.
After maybe 3 more minutes of him and me playing the exact same note, he suddenly goes "oh, I was playing the wrong note".
Never once did it occur to me to look at his keyboard and see what notes he was playing, even though I do know the layout of a keyboard. I was really intimitated, because he was way more experienced than me, and I just thought if he says something is wrong, then I must be doing something wrong...

 

[jamro217]

The only time I have trouble is when the new key means rearranging the pattern I learned for a tune. If you are used to playing a song in E and suddenly find yourself having to render it in Ab, none of the usual runs containing open strings will work. You then must think ahead, know the tune, know the scales used, know the best way to substitute the notes without sounding awkward and keeping this going in real time rhythmically. Not a task for the faint of heart! Especially on a dark stage at a moment's notice. (Think "special guest performer at a wedding: the bride's niece".) Such occasions are usually the ones least forgiving of failure. This is why we, as musicians, should spend more time practicing and learning our art rather than wasting time trying to identify the best bass for metal. OMG!!!! Did I just say that? FOR SHAME!!!!

 

[coyote1]

You wouldn’t have had to transpose on the fly if the BL had previously given you the key changes. Pretty important info to have.

Except that this can easily occur if a sub or guest singer will be working a gig. A bassist should have no issue with it. He/she should be familiar with a whole slew of standard concepts. First, the standard changes, substitutions and patterns that permeate most music played by combos & clubdate orchestras. Second, the typical songs that emanate from those patterns. Blues in D instead of E? Rhythm changes in C instead of B flat? Beatles’ Something in F?

One way to begin to get there: the Real Book(s). Buy one or three. Don’t quibble about whether they are perfect or not; simply flip the pages, and play through the songs. Use all the tools you know: arpeggios, scalar lines, passing tones, chromatic runs, repeated notes. Be willing to start chords on 7ths and 3rds as well as roots etc. Get to a point where you’re not seeing individual chords anymore, but seeing entire phrases or sections at a glance.

So when the sub singer calls “Fly Me To The Moon in E flat”, you are just automatically starting vi7 > ii7 > V7 > Imaj7 working toward that Eb (first chord C-7 using the classic chromatic walk-up to ease everyone in).

 

[devnulljp]

Yeah, I play with guitarists who use capos. It's always hit & miss whether they'll remember to put them on in the right place or take them off as required -- so learning to transpose on the fly is a must.