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How many red flags is too many red flags?
- Thread starter Beej
- Start date
It's better to know a guy who knows a guy. That's where you started. Now you just know the guy.
Maybe it will be fun. Good luck. Just being in a meeting a few years ago at work isn't necessarily a problem unless you think he and his wife and your other colleague created an elaborate scheme to get you to audition just so they could have a disciplinary meeting with you. Unlikely.
But just in case, roll film.
Have fun no matter what.
Maybe it will be fun. Good luck. Just being in a meeting a few years ago at work isn't necessarily a problem unless you think he and his wife and your other colleague created an elaborate scheme to get you to audition just so they could have a disciplinary meeting with you. Unlikely.
But just in case, roll film.
Have fun no matter what.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
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- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
If I'm interested in a band I never say no before having a go at it. You never know what the chemistry is going to be like until you're in it, and you can always quit.
I also always played in more than one band. Marrying myself to a single band never seemed wise, for my purposes.
I also always played in more than one band. Marrying myself to a single band never seemed wise, for my purposes.
For me, One! Because it’s Red!A guy I know told me a guy from his work plays lead guitar in a working band and they are looking for a new bass player, so I said sure, pass my details on to them. I got a call from the band leader last night, and it turns out we know each other from work. In fact, his supervisor used to report to me in my last job. In the discussion a few other potential red flags appeared.
Band leader is a rhythm guitarist and sometimes lead vocalist. He’s married to the main lead vocalist. She’s only been singing regularly for a couple of years. I didn’t realize they were a married couple until he brought it up, but she also used to work for someone who reported to me, and we had some “contact” over some of the time I was in that department, as it was part of my job to be present for any staff disciplinary meetings (this was over three years ago). We talked about this specifically and he said it’s all water under the bridge as she’s in a different line of work now and never had a problem with me at the time.
They are looking for a new bass player and a new drummer, because they both quit after their last show in March, right before COVID hit here. According to the BL, after a band meeting, the drummer couldn’t hack the vocal expectations and quit rather than work on vocals. The bass player apparently quit because sometimes the BL and singer “like to change arrangements around” in some of the songs they perform. It’s all covers – a mix of danceable 70’s/80’s/90’s rock, lots of fun songs.
The conversation was last night, and we chatted about two songs that I already knew. I’m going to go play with them tonight.
Whatcha think TB? Too many red flags?
And a Flag. 
Step 1:
Call them
Step 2:
Do the audition. Take good mental notes.
Step 3:
Come back and entertain us with the stories. A lot of us could use a good laugh right now.
There's also a chance it could work out splendidly. If that happens, smile and keep it to yourself. We want to hear about train wrecks!
Call them
Step 2:
Do the audition. Take good mental notes.
Step 3:
Come back and entertain us with the stories. A lot of us could use a good laugh right now.
There's also a chance it could work out splendidly. If that happens, smile and keep it to yourself. We want to hear about train wrecks!
Ok, so I'm in another band, and it so happens that all of my cabs are over at my usual jam spot and I messaged my friend today to arrange to come grab one. Oops, he's out of town, an hour away and won't be back til Sunday for our usual practice.
I call the BL at the audition, apologize and say I have a couple of amps, but no cabs, might he have something there? He says they have an amp I can use, and so I roll out and arrive right on time. They are already set up when I arrive, we have some introductions and they point me to the amp, which is... and I'm not kidding... a 15 watt 8" Crate practice amp.
I didn't bat an eye and plugged into it without any hesitation like I do this all the time, and then we all looked at each other, and everyone totally cracked up about it, including me. It was like a scene from a movie and it was a really good laugh and a great icebreaker. The lead guitarist clearly knew it was all but a total joke, and they giggled and apologized that it was all they had. I was a good sport about it and just played through it like nothing. After all, it was my fault showing up without an amp. With a little EQ the tone wasn't horrific, if a bit lacking in headroom.
We ran through Sweet Child o' Mine and You Wreck Me, which were the only songs on their list I already knew how to play, since this only came together literally last night. They went really well actually. They can all sing - she's got a good voice, not fantastic, but she's careful to maintain good pitch. Both guitarists are really strong, but lead is one of those really fluid players who can match others really well. They didn't play over each other much, and each seemed to drop back and leave space for each other.
We then played another half dozen of their songs and I just did my best to follow along. All were straightforward rock songs, so pretty easy to pick up the bones, and fake through signature parts. They were easygoing, pretty mellow, good humored, and all of them can play. They invited me back for week after next and I'm probably going to do it, but I'm definitely bringing my own amp.
I call the BL at the audition, apologize and say I have a couple of amps, but no cabs, might he have something there? He says they have an amp I can use, and so I roll out and arrive right on time. They are already set up when I arrive, we have some introductions and they point me to the amp, which is... and I'm not kidding... a 15 watt 8" Crate practice amp.
I didn't bat an eye and plugged into it without any hesitation like I do this all the time, and then we all looked at each other, and everyone totally cracked up about it, including me. It was like a scene from a movie and it was a really good laugh and a great icebreaker. The lead guitarist clearly knew it was all but a total joke, and they giggled and apologized that it was all they had. I was a good sport about it and just played through it like nothing. After all, it was my fault showing up without an amp. With a little EQ the tone wasn't horrific, if a bit lacking in headroom.
We ran through Sweet Child o' Mine and You Wreck Me, which were the only songs on their list I already knew how to play, since this only came together literally last night.
They went really well actually. They can all sing - she's got a good voice, not fantastic, but she's careful to maintain good pitch. Both guitarists are really strong, but lead is one of those really fluid players who can match others really well. They didn't play over each other much, and each seemed to drop back and leave space for each other. We then played another half dozen of their songs and I just did my best to follow along. All were straightforward rock songs, so pretty easy to pick up the bones, and fake through signature parts. They were easygoing, pretty mellow, good humored, and all of them can play. They invited me back for week after next and I'm probably going to do it, but I'm definitely bringing my own amp.
In NY, opening day of trout season is a big deal..Upstate western part of the state. Anyway, its April and usually crappy out but its opening day and I go. So this one year me and a couple friends are fishing this hot spot I knew about in the sticks..nice little stream.
Its freezing out and raining but I'm hardcore and fishing, but getting nothing and that is not totally unusual because that's the way it goes sometimes. I spend the entire morning up and down the river, using salted minnows in a carolina rig config, panther martin spinners of various types, salmon eggs, etc everything in my trout box that usually works and what the heck I'm not even getting a bite and neither are any of my friends. We are totally getting shut out and my friends are starting to get pissed and I'm becoming crestfallen as well because my hot spot is only producing anger. Since its opening day its no surprise that there are a few others fishing there as well, but nobody is getting anything, and I started thinking to myself I am freezing and I'm gonna go start a fire and call it a day with this fishing but, I'm looking through my tackle box and see this floating rapala, its a lure that is mainly for bass and I don't know why its in my tackle box for trout but its there and I'm staring at it thinking maybe I should try it but no, its never gonna work and I'm already sick of this crap.
However I'm no quitter and I am an optimist even in the worst of scenarios so I say, f- it..I'm going to tie this on and throw it out there and since its the last thing I have left that will be the end of the day...I cast it out and it hits the water and BOOM, its like a bolt of lightning and I'm lightening the drag ( because I use ultra light gear for trout but this one is BIG) and now I am fighting this big brown and reeling it in, every one on the river has stopped fishing and all eyes are on me..I bring it in and hold this thing up, and everyone is now gathered around me and the ones that aren't have now moved to my spot across the stream and like 5-6 lines are now criss crossing and everyone is trying that spot while asking me what lure I used..I tell them its a rapala, heads are shaking..lol..my friends are jubilant shaking my hand because we are a team and this is a team win.!! I unhook it and throw it back in the stream and announce, NOW opening day is over..lets go celebrate..ha ha...
yeah its a long story but the point is; even with red flags and everything in your soul is telling you it's not going to work etc. sometimes things happen to work out even when you think it might not...but you can't catch any fish without throwing that line into the water..
Its freezing out and raining but I'm hardcore and fishing, but getting nothing and that is not totally unusual because that's the way it goes sometimes. I spend the entire morning up and down the river, using salted minnows in a carolina rig config, panther martin spinners of various types, salmon eggs, etc everything in my trout box that usually works and what the heck I'm not even getting a bite and neither are any of my friends. We are totally getting shut out and my friends are starting to get pissed and I'm becoming crestfallen as well because my hot spot is only producing anger. Since its opening day its no surprise that there are a few others fishing there as well, but nobody is getting anything, and I started thinking to myself I am freezing and I'm gonna go start a fire and call it a day with this fishing but, I'm looking through my tackle box and see this floating rapala, its a lure that is mainly for bass and I don't know why its in my tackle box for trout but its there and I'm staring at it thinking maybe I should try it but no, its never gonna work and I'm already sick of this crap.
However I'm no quitter and I am an optimist even in the worst of scenarios so I say, f- it..I'm going to tie this on and throw it out there and since its the last thing I have left that will be the end of the day...I cast it out and it hits the water and BOOM, its like a bolt of lightning and I'm lightening the drag ( because I use ultra light gear for trout but this one is BIG) and now I am fighting this big brown and reeling it in, every one on the river has stopped fishing and all eyes are on me..I bring it in and hold this thing up, and everyone is now gathered around me and the ones that aren't have now moved to my spot across the stream and like 5-6 lines are now criss crossing and everyone is trying that spot while asking me what lure I used..I tell them its a rapala, heads are shaking..lol..my friends are jubilant shaking my hand because we are a team and this is a team win.!! I unhook it and throw it back in the stream and announce, NOW opening day is over..lets go celebrate..ha ha...
yeah its a long story but the point is; even with red flags and everything in your soul is telling you it's not going to work etc. sometimes things happen to work out even when you think it might not...but you can't catch any fish without throwing that line into the water..
OP has described a situation a lot like my main function band, in that we have married singers, and we like to change arrangements around if it suits us.
The TB obsession with relationships within bands is a bit weird to me. In our band, it’s only been an asset.
What’s better? Tiptoeing around an issue that’s bothering you because you don’t want to rock the boat and damage delicate intra-band relationships built on casual acquaintance? OR, having it out and clearing the air about anything because you know your relationship with that person is strong enough to survive a disagreement over chord voicings?
All marriages are different so YMMV of course.
And on the switching up arrangements, it’s only an issue if someone in the band can’t keep up. Never really been a problem for us.
The TB obsession with relationships within bands is a bit weird to me. In our band, it’s only been an asset.
What’s better? Tiptoeing around an issue that’s bothering you because you don’t want to rock the boat and damage delicate intra-band relationships built on casual acquaintance? OR, having it out and clearing the air about anything because you know your relationship with that person is strong enough to survive a disagreement over chord voicings?
All marriages are different so YMMV of course.
And on the switching up arrangements, it’s only an issue if someone in the band can’t keep up. Never really been a problem for us.
Excellent ! Nothing ventured/Nothing gained
Great story*, always have a Rapala (& Mepps) variant of some sort on hand.
Another applicable analogy (hockey, because Im Canadian eh): You always miss every shot you dont take!
(* Hope you dont mind I cropped it.)
The first band I joined was a 4 piece. It existed in one form or another for about 8 years prior to me joining.
The lead singer was on keys. His voice was limited in range which limited the song choice.
His best mate of 30+ years was on guitar.
He never played the same song the same way twice. Was always fiddling with nobs, buttons, cabs, amps, pedals. Often his back was to the crowd and by the time he got the sound he needed, we were two songs ahead of him. The only way we knew he was at rehearsal or the gig was by all the feedback noise.
Would you sack the guy?
I would. Friend or Not.. he was incompetent for the task. But no..he was not sacked.
Anyway, after 16 years of putting up with this guy, he finally left. Not sacked but left..
So we get a new guitarist. All appears good.
UNTIL we turn up to Friday night rehearsal to find the lead singer has allowed his wife into our mix.
Can she sing? NOPE!!
So here we are with a singer with limited vocal range, a new singer, his wife, with no vocal range and the rest of the band playing poopie songs to accompany her poor abilities.
We persevered with this, for some time with the hope she would improve. Did she? NOPE!
We tried to encourage her, point out the pitching, the straining, the wrong song choice but it all fell on deaf ears...
Here comes the dilemma.
The band finds itself going backwards. Losing great musician after great musician in order to keep poopie musician after poopie musician. Our set list/song choices get worse and worse.
Eventually, the band leader finds himself in the position where he can't sack his wife...
Geez he couldn't sack his mate and he wasn't shagging him, how could he sack his wife?
So instead of sacking his wife, he invites another "friend" to our gig, who promptly attacks the drummer for "questioning" the wife's vocal (or lack of) abilities.... right in the middle of a huge crowd at the drummers own home. Here's the worst thing. The drummer hadn't even said anything to the wife about her vocals. Nothing was mentioned about her and her abilities.
Basically rather than sack his wife, he looked for a way out by splitting the band up and blaming someone else whilst getting an outsider to do the dirty work.
Run for the hills and keep running.
The lead singer was on keys. His voice was limited in range which limited the song choice.
His best mate of 30+ years was on guitar.
He never played the same song the same way twice. Was always fiddling with nobs, buttons, cabs, amps, pedals. Often his back was to the crowd and by the time he got the sound he needed, we were two songs ahead of him. The only way we knew he was at rehearsal or the gig was by all the feedback noise.
Would you sack the guy?
I would. Friend or Not.. he was incompetent for the task. But no..he was not sacked.
Anyway, after 16 years of putting up with this guy, he finally left. Not sacked but left..
So we get a new guitarist. All appears good.
UNTIL we turn up to Friday night rehearsal to find the lead singer has allowed his wife into our mix.
Can she sing? NOPE!!
So here we are with a singer with limited vocal range, a new singer, his wife, with no vocal range and the rest of the band playing poopie songs to accompany her poor abilities.
We persevered with this, for some time with the hope she would improve. Did she? NOPE!
We tried to encourage her, point out the pitching, the straining, the wrong song choice but it all fell on deaf ears...
Here comes the dilemma.
The band finds itself going backwards. Losing great musician after great musician in order to keep poopie musician after poopie musician. Our set list/song choices get worse and worse.
Eventually, the band leader finds himself in the position where he can't sack his wife...
Geez he couldn't sack his mate and he wasn't shagging him, how could he sack his wife?
So instead of sacking his wife, he invites another "friend" to our gig, who promptly attacks the drummer for "questioning" the wife's vocal (or lack of) abilities.... right in the middle of a huge crowd at the drummers own home. Here's the worst thing. The drummer hadn't even said anything to the wife about her vocals. Nothing was mentioned about her and her abilities.
Basically rather than sack his wife, he looked for a way out by splitting the band up and blaming someone else whilst getting an outsider to do the dirty work.
Run for the hills and keep running.
I call the BL at the audition, apologize and say I have a couple of amps, but no cabs, might he have something there? He says they have an amp I can use, and so I roll out and arrive right on time. They are already set up when I arrive, we have some introductions and they point me to the amp, which is... and I'm not kidding... a 15 watt 8" Crate practice amp.
The devil is in the details!
