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How many watts do you run?
- Thread starter scottfeldstein
- Start date
While I just bought a Little Marktube 800 + a 412 cab, my main rig is standard, 810 + all tube CL, I know boring but I'll take it .................................... unless I can't really move it then I'll camp out where it ends up.......
Crown XLS 1500 Power Amp, Demeter HPB1 Preamp.
One Channel into an Epifani 3-10 UL cabinet (3 tens and a tweeter- 5.63 ohms),
Second Channel into a Schroeder Dual 12 Light (2 twelves and a tweet - 8 ohm cab) parallel with an Epifani 2-10 cabinet (2 tens - Tweeter - 8ohms)
Pretty easy to carry because all the cabs have Neo Spks in them. So the Crown is operating at 575 watts per channel into 4 ohm loads, but can operate into 2 ohms without any problem. Awesome rig. And don't need to carry the whole thing for small gigs. But clean Crown watts for sure. (By the way it bridges mono to 1550 watts at 4 ohms.)
One Channel into an Epifani 3-10 UL cabinet (3 tens and a tweeter- 5.63 ohms),
Second Channel into a Schroeder Dual 12 Light (2 twelves and a tweet - 8 ohm cab) parallel with an Epifani 2-10 cabinet (2 tens - Tweeter - 8ohms)
Pretty easy to carry because all the cabs have Neo Spks in them. So the Crown is operating at 575 watts per channel into 4 ohm loads, but can operate into 2 ohms without any problem. Awesome rig. And don't need to carry the whole thing for small gigs. But clean Crown watts for sure. (By the way it bridges mono to 1550 watts at 4 ohms.)
Last edited:
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,599
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
32kW in the main rig and 12kW in the monitor rig
... oh wait, you guys were talking about bass amps
... oh wait, you guys were talking about bass amps
Don't you run bass through it?32kW in the main rig and 12kW in the monitor rig
... oh wait, you guys were talking about bass amps
- Feb 12, 2006
- 60,952
- 5
- 220,599
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
There is not enough info with most Bass amps on Speaker Efficiency, usually listed as SPL (Sound Pressure Level) in DBs (Decibels)
Measured with 1 watt of input power at one meter away from the Speaker.
That tells you exactly how loud a cabinet will be with similar watts driving the system.
The problem is, many manufacturers don't even list efficiency of their cabinets. And that does many players a real disservice.
You need a 3 db increase to see a perceived volume increase. 6 Db is approximating twice as loud.
So Looking at a few High Class Cabinets,
* Schroeder 12 12 L cabinet (dual twelves with tweet) 800 watt version or 1000 watt version: 103 DB SPL
* Epifani 3-10 UL (Three Tens with tweet) 750 watt rating: 103 DB SPL
* Ampeg 410 HLF Cabinet (Four Tens with tweet Classic Series) 500 watt rating: 98 DB SPL
So the top two Cabinet designs compared to the Ampeg cabinet, they are 5 DB more efficient and would seem almost twice as loud with 1 watt of power. And have fewer Speakers and Weigh considerably less, since they are Neo Speakers. Just some info to be aware of.
Measured with 1 watt of input power at one meter away from the Speaker.
That tells you exactly how loud a cabinet will be with similar watts driving the system.
The problem is, many manufacturers don't even list efficiency of their cabinets. And that does many players a real disservice.
You need a 3 db increase to see a perceived volume increase. 6 Db is approximating twice as loud.
So Looking at a few High Class Cabinets,
* Schroeder 12 12 L cabinet (dual twelves with tweet) 800 watt version or 1000 watt version: 103 DB SPL
* Epifani 3-10 UL (Three Tens with tweet) 750 watt rating: 103 DB SPL
* Ampeg 410 HLF Cabinet (Four Tens with tweet Classic Series) 500 watt rating: 98 DB SPL
So the top two Cabinet designs compared to the Ampeg cabinet, they are 5 DB more efficient and would seem almost twice as loud with 1 watt of power. And have fewer Speakers and Weigh considerably less, since they are Neo Speakers. Just some info to be aware of.
True that most manufacturers don't list these specs, but those that do have no standard, so they are not as useful as you think.
They also only tell you how the cab will behave at 1 watt. They don't cover power compression or excursion limitations. "Standard" specs are widely poor.
Actually 10db is considered twice as loud.
Those power ratings are rubbish, and non of those specs tell you what a cab sounds like.
The ampeg is going to have way more low end than the Schroeder. Which is louder? At what frequency? That matters.
I play through an Eden WT-800. I always run it bridged. For smaller gigs, I use a single 8-Ohm 4x10 cab or 2x10 cab, depending on the room acoustics.. This gives me 800 watts. For louder gigs I add a second 8-Ohm cab ( 4x10 + 2x10 ). This gives me 1,100 watts. In this configuration, which requires hearing protection, I've always had as much volume as needed, even for outdoor gigs.
I'm running 75 to 150 Musicman tube watts thru a Berg HT322 for practice and regular to small gigs. And 300 Ampeg SVT tube watts thru a Berg NV610 for large gigs. Both are plenty loud for everything I need to do.
I didn't read the whole thread.
That being said, perhaps your guitar player could yank two power tubes out (depending on the amp) and he would have (roughly) a 50W combo with the same tone. If it is a solid state amp, he just needs to turn down. His tone won't suffer in the least.
Also, I hate to pile on top of you with the whole speaker debate, but that's where it's at. Speakers. I have a 100W vintage Ampeg V4 and a 100W vintage Fender PA 100 (which makes an incredible bass amp by the way). Hook those bad boys up to an 8-10 or (heaven forbid) two ported 4-10 cabs and it will knock the nails out of the studs and mortar from the bricks in whatever room you put it in. I have literally seen dust fall from the ceiling of rooms I cranked them up in (just for fun during sound check).
I also run a Mesa Walkabout Scout 15" combo with matching extension cab. With the gain where I like it (just before breakup) I am able to turn the volume to about 1 1/2. We're talking 350W if I remember correctly. Those cabs are just well designed and very efficient.
But like others said, you an run 10,000 watts into 1 15" speaker and you still can't hang.
Physics. It don't play.
Good luck with it!
That being said, perhaps your guitar player could yank two power tubes out (depending on the amp) and he would have (roughly) a 50W combo with the same tone. If it is a solid state amp, he just needs to turn down. His tone won't suffer in the least.
Also, I hate to pile on top of you with the whole speaker debate, but that's where it's at. Speakers. I have a 100W vintage Ampeg V4 and a 100W vintage Fender PA 100 (which makes an incredible bass amp by the way). Hook those bad boys up to an 8-10 or (heaven forbid) two ported 4-10 cabs and it will knock the nails out of the studs and mortar from the bricks in whatever room you put it in. I have literally seen dust fall from the ceiling of rooms I cranked them up in (just for fun during sound check).
I also run a Mesa Walkabout Scout 15" combo with matching extension cab. With the gain where I like it (just before breakup) I am able to turn the volume to about 1 1/2. We're talking 350W if I remember correctly. Those cabs are just well designed and very efficient.
But like others said, you an run 10,000 watts into 1 15" speaker and you still can't hang.
Physics. It don't play.
Good luck with it!
Ugh, I feel your pain. One band I play with has a guitarist with a Mesa Rectifier. By the end of every gig, the amp is turned up full blast, to the point where it feeds back if his hand isn't muting the strings. I thank goddess that he's now using a 2x12 instead of a 4x12, but the 2x12 still gets painfully loud. Also, the drummer in that band hits amazingly hard and has a loud kit, because at some gigs FOH is for vocals and kick drum only.
As I'm sure many have said: to increase volume you need more watts and more speakers. With that band, my favorite rig is a Bergantino NV 6x10 pushed by 2000W. (Yes, I wear earplugs).
All my other bands play at reasonable volume. With them, I use my new mini-rig: 500W Aguilar TH500 and a pair of Bergantino CN112 cabs that weigh 28 pounds each. This rig is more than enough to fill small-moderate bars with no FOH, and work as stage monitor (FOH support) in large venues. At small gigs, a single 1x12 can be enough.
I also have a pair of 2x10 cabs. I used to use 1 or 2 of them, but they have ceramic magnets (heavy) and these days I prefer an easier schlep.
Wow this thread is more than three years old 
Update on my situation! I now play in a very cool and very quiet band. For a couple of years we didn't even have a drummer, so the drum track could be set to any volume and we could follow it down to the point of people being able to have dinner conversations right in front of the band. We now have a drummer--but one who plays cajones!
What all this means is that I can usually get away with my MB500 driving my 212 cab. When I need more I stack a 210 on top of it.
But since we're discussing my band... here's an in-progress track for our next album!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5biohelygad5a1b/Green Eyes.mp3?dl=0
Update on my situation! I now play in a very cool and very quiet band. For a couple of years we didn't even have a drummer, so the drum track could be set to any volume and we could follow it down to the point of people being able to have dinner conversations right in front of the band. We now have a drummer--but one who plays cajones!
What all this means is that I can usually get away with my MB500 driving my 212 cab. When I need more I stack a 210 on top of it.
But since we're discussing my band... here's an in-progress track for our next album!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5biohelygad5a1b/Green Eyes.mp3?dl=0
[ veering OT.... ]
I'll never understand the need for 100 watt guitar amps. I played in a couple of very loud garage rock bands where both guitar players used blackface Pro Reverbs, 40 watt combo amps (sort of like half power versions of that era's twin reverb) Both had the single volume control full up, there were no pedals used - the great two guitar sound came from one guy playing a 50's Junior while the other played a Tele. The sound was enormous in the mid sized clubs we regularly played, and more than adequate when we opened for a 'name' act on a very large stage.
I used a D180 or a Bass 400 (not 400+) so I was only running 1/2 dozen 6L6 tubes; well under 200 watts RMS (regardless of Mesa's claims) And I could easily play without PA support in 300 to 500 person clubs. And with PA support, large stages and theatre size rooms were no problem. (using two 1-15 cab)
I'll never understand the need for 100 watt guitar amps. I played in a couple of very loud garage rock bands where both guitar players used blackface Pro Reverbs, 40 watt combo amps (sort of like half power versions of that era's twin reverb) Both had the single volume control full up, there were no pedals used - the great two guitar sound came from one guy playing a 50's Junior while the other played a Tele. The sound was enormous in the mid sized clubs we regularly played, and more than adequate when we opened for a 'name' act on a very large stage.
I used a D180 or a Bass 400 (not 400+) so I was only running 1/2 dozen 6L6 tubes; well under 200 watts RMS (regardless of Mesa's claims) And I could easily play without PA support in 300 to 500 person clubs. And with PA support, large stages and theatre size rooms were no problem. (using two 1-15 cab)
Set your gain properly:
"Level and Master Volume settings: Set the master volume to 12 o’clock. (MB210, MB115, MB410 and MB212 only) While playing, turn the input gain up to the desired volume level. At this point you can experiment with different EQ, contour, horn and boost settings."
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"Level and Master Volume settings: Set the master volume to 12 o’clock. (MB210, MB115, MB410 and MB212 only) While playing, turn the input gain up to the desired volume level. At this point you can experiment with different EQ, contour, horn and boost settings."
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I wouldn't play in a band that required more than my 25 W Ampeg can deliver to properly fit in. It's just a matter of making music in an enjoyable and sensible matter. YMMV though.
Hearing loss is a serious and a very real consequence of loud music.
Hearing loss is a serious and a very real consequence of loud music.
Not everyone wants to play light jazz with accoustic guitars and light hand drums.
