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How much do you care about how correctly you write?
- Thread starter Gorn
- Start date
Living in the U.S. for the past 20+ years has done considerable damage to my once excellent (for a foreigner) command of *proper* English language. There's a part of me which is quite upset at myself over it.
I care a lot.
I always try to spell every word correctly and use the proper case and tense, because as my mother used to say, "People will judge you by how you write. If they don't know you personally, it's the only way they can judge your level of intelligence until they meet you."
Years ago, a grammatical error on a job application could cost you the job. Today, it can't be that important, as many of the news stories I read online have all kinds of errors by the authors. Some people don't use spell-check, and some don't use the correct tense or possesive case.
Does it bother me?
Yes, but I don't lose sleep over it.
Mike
I always try to spell every word correctly and use the proper case and tense, because as my mother used to say, "People will judge you by how you write. If they don't know you personally, it's the only way they can judge your level of intelligence until they meet you."
Years ago, a grammatical error on a job application could cost you the job. Today, it can't be that important, as many of the news stories I read online have all kinds of errors by the authors. Some people don't use spell-check, and some don't use the correct tense or possesive case.
Does it bother me?
Yes, but I don't lose sleep over it.
Mike
Can I be silly?
Thank you.
Correct English:
My friend, Peter was bitten by a dog today.
They weren't sure if the dog was rabid, so tests were done, and the required shots were administered.
Anything goes English:
My friend, Petey was like like bited today by a dog, but they weren't sure if the dog had rabbits.
He took a test and failed. I think they shot him and stuff.
A minister came.
A little over the top, but...
Mike
Thank you.
Correct English:
My friend, Peter was bitten by a dog today.
They weren't sure if the dog was rabid, so tests were done, and the required shots were administered.
Anything goes English:
My friend, Petey was like like bited today by a dog, but they weren't sure if the dog had rabbits.
He took a test and failed. I think they shot him and stuff.
A minister came.
A little over the top, but...
Mike
Sorry to read you're having problems with that.
I care a lot. I'll spend ten minutes writing a two-line email, if I think it's needed.
Initially, it was because I'm just the kind of person who likes to get things right - I value correctness, in the sense of "accuracy."
Later in life, I had a series of colleagues whose emails effectively had to be decoded. One of them confirmed explicitly that he couldn't care less how long it took the recipient to figure out what he'd said - he just didn't want to "waste" more time than necessary to spray his thoughts out and hit "send." He said outright that it was because his time was valuable, and he didn't care how much time it took other people to read it. Rude, much?
I often had to reply with multiple possible interpretations of what he'd said, and ask which was correct; a few times, I simply asked him to try again in English because I had no idea what he was trying to say.
These experiences rammed home three things.
- A practical thing: the harder it is for people to read what you wrote, the less likely they are to bother reading it. If you don't care whether they read it, why did you bother writing it?
- A second practical thing: the harder it is to understand what you wrote, the more likely it is that the reader will misinterpret it.
- A moral thing: there's a trade-off between the time and effort you spend writing it, and the time and effort the reader spends understanding it. Choosing to make them work harder to read it than you did to write it, says that you think your time is more valuable than theirs - even if it's true in monetary terms, it's still just plain rude.
Initially, it was because I'm just the kind of person who likes to get things right - I value correctness, in the sense of "accuracy."
Later in life, I had a series of colleagues whose emails effectively had to be decoded. One of them confirmed explicitly that he couldn't care less how long it took the recipient to figure out what he'd said - he just didn't want to "waste" more time than necessary to spray his thoughts out and hit "send." He said outright that it was because his time was valuable, and he didn't care how much time it took other people to read it. Rude, much?
I often had to reply with multiple possible interpretations of what he'd said, and ask which was correct; a few times, I simply asked him to try again in English because I had no idea what he was trying to say.
These experiences rammed home three things.
- A practical thing: the harder it is for people to read what you wrote, the less likely they are to bother reading it. If you don't care whether they read it, why did you bother writing it?
- A second practical thing: the harder it is to understand what you wrote, the more likely it is that the reader will misinterpret it.
- A moral thing: there's a trade-off between the time and effort you spend writing it, and the time and effort the reader spends understanding it. Choosing to make them work harder to read it than you did to write it, says that you think your time is more valuable than theirs - even if it's true in monetary terms, it's still just plain rude.
I always go back and proofread my e-mails and posts. Sometimes a fat-fingered error gets through, but I correct it as soon as I notice.
B.
B.
One thing I've noticed is that few people know (or think) they're a bad writer. Because no one has ever pointed it out to them. I get professional emails at my job that make me cringe, but I'm not going to respond and point out their flaws. No one will. Therefore, the behavior never gets corrected. Even if someone did point it out, what then? Send the employee to remedial English?
I've also found that it's not about the amount of education or intelligence, either. My wife has a friend with a Ph.D whose FB posts are grammar atrocities.
I've also found that it's not about the amount of education or intelligence, either. My wife has a friend with a Ph.D whose FB posts are grammar atrocities.
I nominate @Gorn as leader of this new club. And where is @killedbydeath? I thought he’d be all over this!
Does this explain your username?
Funny you mentioned it. That was a log in code issued from a company I worked for 24 years ago when somebody woke up and came to the conclusion there were people mining the internet for sensitive data for nefarious purposes.
Words can’t express how much I miss him.
A man who did once did some contract work for my family knew that I was an avid reader of science fiction, so he asked me to read a SF novel that he had written and critique it for him. He hoped it would be good enough to submit to a publisher.
I was genuinely impressed by the sheer amount of time and effort he must have invested in his writing as his manuscript was about 500 typewritten pages - easily as long as a proper novella.
Unfortunately it was so badly written, in every way, that it was unreadable garbage. It was as if it was written by a poorly educated 8 year old.
It was riddled with sentence fragments, noun/verb disagreements, run on sentences, bad spelling, and misuse of punctuation. The narration shifted randomly between 1st and 3rd person, and also past and present tense.
If those problems weren't a fatal blow, then the characters and plot certainly were. Without going into detail, I'll just say that the story itself was an incomprehensible mess. I had absolutely no idea what was supposed to be happening. It didn't even resemble science fiction, except that some of it seemed to take place in outer space and there were some beautiful women wearing skimpy spacesuits.
When I reported back to the guy, I didn't want to be too brutal or insulting, so I just told him it needed work and recommended that he sign up for a few creative writing classes at the community college.
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Let me liken written communication to an engineering or architectural drawing. I had a drafting instructor that had two rules:
The first rule doesn't apply so much to our discussion. "It doesn't matter if the original drawing is ugly with erasure markings or spliced in sections. What matters is that the original will produce a nice, clean, high-contrast print."
The second rule applies to our current topic. "If you put the drawing in front of a fabricator in the shop, how fast and how accurately can the shop guy understand what he is supposed to do?"
I find that these two rules apply to almost every endeavor in which I find myself. Quick, accurate and unambiguous communication should always be the goal.
The first rule doesn't apply so much to our discussion. "It doesn't matter if the original drawing is ugly with erasure markings or spliced in sections. What matters is that the original will produce a nice, clean, high-contrast print."
The second rule applies to our current topic. "If you put the drawing in front of a fabricator in the shop, how fast and how accurately can the shop guy understand what he is supposed to do?"
I find that these two rules apply to almost every endeavor in which I find myself. Quick, accurate and unambiguous communication should always be the goal.
I try to write the same way that I talk. I use spell check, commas. English is always evolving. Sadly, it's "dumbing down".
Thank God we are not able to incorporate "up speak" into our writing! I hate "up speak"!
No matter how much I proof read, seems like I always miss something.
I have found that most of us here on TalkBass do pretty good with expressing ourselves and I always enjoy reading TalkBass threads and posts.
Thank God we are not able to incorporate "up speak" into our writing! I hate "up speak"!
No matter how much I proof read, seems like I always miss something.
I have found that most of us here on TalkBass do pretty good with expressing ourselves and I always enjoy reading TalkBass threads and posts.
My wife refers to me as the Grammar Police, which is funny because, well the South. We say all kinds of stuff that break all the rules.
At the end of the day if we can get our point across reasonably that should be enough.
Of course if you are wanting perfect people, they are scarcer than hen's teeth.
At the end of the day if we can get our point across reasonably that should be enough.
Of course if you are wanting perfect people, they are scarcer than hen's teeth.
I’m not going to save someone’s life by being in a huge rush to hit the Post Reply button.
This is a time waster. Any time anyone “needs” to know anything bass-related, they actually don’t.
Whether someone’s wondering if they should fire their grandmother from the band because she’s messing around with the guitarist’s wife or they can’t decide between two perfectly usable amps for a MOTR band, it’s not actually important in a way which warrants eliminating 45 seconds of edit time before punching PR.
It’s super easy to read and re-read my post to be sure it communicates everything I want it to and nothing I don’t. So I do that.
Even if it’s just gibberish, it’ll be intentional gibberish which can be clearly and concisely identified as gibberish even by people who have only a passing familiarity with English.
This is a time waster. Any time anyone “needs” to know anything bass-related, they actually don’t.
Whether someone’s wondering if they should fire their grandmother from the band because she’s messing around with the guitarist’s wife or they can’t decide between two perfectly usable amps for a MOTR band, it’s not actually important in a way which warrants eliminating 45 seconds of edit time before punching PR.
It’s super easy to read and re-read my post to be sure it communicates everything I want it to and nothing I don’t. So I do that.
Even if it’s just gibberish, it’ll be intentional gibberish which can be clearly and concisely identified as gibberish even by people who have only a passing familiarity with English.
