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How much music theory do you really need to know?

I always started by emphasizing basic rhythm, counting, note durations, and keeping time; when a bass player has bad time, do the notes really matter?

Harmonically, I always taught the string and note names and the basic intervals needed to tune by ear, followed by major scales; I only taught the circle of fifths as each student was ready. It was pretty easy to hear which (middle school) students had done their homework and were ready to advance to learning minor scales, modes, and chord theory.

Music theory is the math of music. Some folks will hunger to learn more immediately, while others will retreat in horror.
 
I believe theory exemplifies the 80/20 rule: 80% of the useful stuff is in 20% of the body of theory.
The specific 20% is the functional harmony part. Understanding Chords and chord progressions, recognizing C - Amin - Dmin - G7 as a I vi ii V7 and so forth. Enough theory to follow a chord chart, and possibly transpose if needed. Included in Understanding Chords and chord progressions is the basics of intervals, triads, and the major and minor scales. That's the amount of theory I'd say I "need"

Modes, exotic scales, clever chord extensions and alterations, and Adam Neely level analysis can come later IMHO.

Notation literacy I can't say is 100% necessary
But boy is it helpful for understanding rhythm

Ideally we learn theory well enough to this:
 
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I think it comes down to what type of music you are playing and how good your natural feel and musical instinct is. For styles like jazz or blues (I'm thinking of Tommy Shannon and his marvelous work on the fretboard) that knowing a fair amount of theory is going to be critical to playing with a band and creating solid and interesting basslines.

Most rock and country I think you need a little less. That said, there are some fundamentals in my opinion that are crucial, but if you have a good ear and listen enough, most bassists can pick up and understand what works and what doesn't.
 
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I had no way of knowing whether I needed to know theory until I knew theory and could judge whether I needed it or not. :)

I've invariably found it more useful than I would have guessed prior to knowing it. So in my case, it never hurts to know a bit more ...
 
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You should learn as much music theory as is reasonably justified by your commitment to music.

If you're the weekend warrior in a rock cover band, probably you don't need much at all, and the time and energy you'd spend really getting into it may not be justified by your other commitments in life. Maybe you work 60+ hours a week and have five kids and other hobbies as well. Is it really important, or even worthwhile, to try to master advanced chord theory?

That said, I think every bass player should commit to learning the names of the notes on each string up and down the neck, learn your basic scales and chords, and train your ear to recognize pitch, and the reason is simple: even if you're in the above category and just playing simple rock covers, it will still save you time in the learning process. Ideally, if you're learning something as simple as a rock song, you should know enough about music and have a well-trained enough ear that you can listen to the song and almost immediately know which notes are being played when, and why.

At the risk of sounding judgmental, we should all know enough theory and be able to recognize pitch well enough that you never have to rely on something like tablature which may or may not even be accurate.

I think it's important to know how to read written notation to *some* degree, but again, it comes down to what you really want out of your experience as a bass player.

For what it's worth, the notion that learning the "math" of music will somehow impair your ability to play with "feel," has got to be one of the dumbest and yet most persistent nonsense myths ever uttered.
 
I consider my understanding of theory pretty basic. My school discontinued its commercial music program the semester I started. I made it through the first three semesters of classical theory, which basically covers major and minor diatonic theory and associated 7th chords. We also had one chapter on augmented 6th chords, which I have forgotten. AFAIK the augmented 6th chords don't typically relate to jazz theory...or if they do I never made the connection.

I would say I have harmonization for major keys down pretty well. Never got solid on harmonization for the minor forms. I know my major and minor 7th and 6th chords really well. I would say I am less solid with augmented and diminished 7th chords, but I generally don't have any trouble handling them when they occur in music.

While going to school, I bought a Real Book and started learning to interpret chord symbols and apply theory to improvise bass lines in real time. Before entering college, I had played in a university big for a couple of years while I was still in high school. About half of the tunes we played used lead sheets with chord notation. The instructor for the class gave me recording and the lead sheets, and I learned to play along with the recordings well enough to fake it.

If the harmony of a song is mostly diatonic I can sight read chords pretty well. However, the more altered the harmony is, the more I have to stop and work things out. Also the more limited my bass lines tend to get. When a bunch of altered chords are thrown together, I may only be able to work out one or two lines that I think work well.

I have practiced the basic modes intermittently, and sometimes apply them. I have a hard time keeping them committed to memory. I am aware of and understand the underpinnings of the modes associated with the harmonic and jazz melodic scales, but consider it a lost cause to memorize them.

I have also put some fairly minimal effort towards learning to use relative pentatonic scales to play outside. At this point I have forgot most of the formulas I was working on.

I have never studied any higher-level approaches or systems, or common scales a real jazzer would probably know. I can sort of feel my way through the whole tone scale or the two diminished scales, but only as finger patterns. I have never really tried to do them in my head using note names. I wouldn't know a bebop scale if it bit me on the ***.

Part of the issue is my mind does well memorizing some types of information, but I feel like I have a memory deficit when it comes to retaining anything beyond basic theory. Part of it is probably my lack of discipline or some sort of attention deficit disorder.

Overall I seem to struggle with numbers and higher levels of spatial reasoning. I feel theory is made up of mostly very simple numerical concepts which are integrated with spatial reasoning, but my working memory is not large enough to hold and juggle enough datapoints to work stuff out in my head. There was a time toward the end of my time in college where I started getting a sense that I was near a breakthrough as I was starting to visualize spatial relationships between the notes. Then life happened and I needed a job and left the program. Although I later turned pro, I never again studied theory with enough rigor to get back to this point.

I have a decent ear, but not a great ear. I am most comfortable playing jazz from a lead sheet. I move in and out of different thought processes. I might use my ear for a few bars and then shift and think about it from a theoretical view point...when my ear starts to feel lost, I sort of switch over to theory.

Never had any trouble memorizing several hours of pop music. But I struggle to memorize jazz. I have memorized some of the more simple jazz standards, but I tend to get lost in more complex changes. The way I memorize songs is sort of like learning to anticipate what sound comes next. I use very little theory when playing by ear. With jazz I have a tendency to get pulled up into the harmony where I get lost. This is especially true when dealing with non-functional chords.

Overall I still think I was blessed with above average musical talent overall. That's not really as arrogant as it sounds. Consider many people seem to have no musical talent whatsoever. Also my level of talent is nowhere near the top of the musician pool. Great players did not seek me out. But I was generally competent and solid as long as I had some time to prepare, or was playing something I had played extensively.

Also my strength was versatility rather than specializing. Musicians in the organizations I worked in were expected to play classical, jazz, and pop at relatively high level. I was not as good as most of my peers when they were playing within their specialty, but I think I was generally better across all genres when they were playing outside of their specialty. I would say I was valued and successful as a player.

I had the impression most of my peers who specialized in classical had totally flushed all of their knowledge of harmony. They could play scales, but most struggled to even spell basic 7th chords. They had no concept of how to approach improvisation. Some were forced into trying and really struggled.
Wow, thanks @Wasnex. This sums up my musical life. Although I am a Berklee grad, I didn’t use any theory until much later in life. I grew up learning by ear on the guitar and bass along with classical clarinet. Then went to music school for bass to re-learn what I heard. Than back to a lot of playing by ear for the last 40 years.

I will say I never went pro for a variety of reasons none having to do with theory or not. But I will say and agree with others, “speaking” the language of music has been great with others who speak it too, but very frustrating when people don’t and you have to explain it some other way. Translation: time waster, time is money. Also, it gives you more options when you have the time to explore a piece or in composing a piece.
 
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Music theory is the math of music. Some folks will hunger to learn more immediately, while others will retreat in horror.
I had a math professor in university who remarked that he did not understand people who had no intellectual curiosity, referring to those who would make no effort to learn more than the minimum they felt they needed. His thinking comes to mind with each recycle of these “music theory” threads.
 
I frequently use this analogy: If I'm having a house built, I want the contractor to know that studs are placed 16" on center, not just anywhere that he feels like they should go ("screw those charts, just feel it"). Similarly, I think any musician worthy of the name should have enough knowledge to know why (or why not) something is working or not working.

Deliberate ignorance in the name of "creativity" is not something I want to be a party too. Because... I end up having to chart their shizzle out for them. And while I use charts, I don't actually enjoy charting stuff out. I do it for myself because I know that I need that understanding to play my best. And I freely make my charts available to other band members. But I don't like to wipe someone else's butt, if you get my drift.

Willful ignorance just ain't cool. Embark on the journey to learn.
 
Playing along to Iron Man in your basement requires no understanding of music theory.

If you want to be the guy who tours on bass with Herbie Hancock you probably need to know all of it.

Your situation is probably somewhere in between.
 
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I tell people the amount of theory you need to know -at a minimum - is what you need to get the job done. And that depends on what type of music you play and how good your ear is.

If you know what to play by ear, then music theory isnt critical. Nice to have, but not critical. Not too many have this talent, but I know of at least two musicians that dont even know the names of the chords and they kill it every time.

If you are going to do jazz, more theory is definitely better - (knowledge and ear recognition of scales, chords, their interrelationship, cadences,etc). Should know all the modes of the major scale cold and know where to use them, plus the Minor Pentatonic and their modes. Some of the Minor modesMelodic minor, diminished, augmented, etc..

If you are going to do 3 chord blues, you probably could get by knowing the notes in the 7 chords and the pentatonic minor scale plus a knowledge of of major vs minor , 6 vs b7, etc. Maybe the relative minor and the 251 cadence. You dont need to know what the Em7#9 chord is by name, but you need to be able to cover it. Knowing a dorian scale wouldnt hurt.

All the above is a great simplification and I personally like music theory and use it in my playing.

I would be interested in your opinions.

I started playing along the records more than 50 years ago. I come from the the '70 rock, then jazz rock etc. I play jazz, that is the "musical town" where my mind lives. I play mainly standards; but as you well know, improvisation is a great part of the tunes execution. According to established protocols. I don't know how to write or read music. Not one note. And I have not a clue about what proper scales or Phrigian, Mixolidian etc... are; this does not mean that I do not have the necessary "embedded-implied" musical knowledge to play tastefully and "within the flow" of the music, with the suited sense for the right notes and related subtleties. In music, everyone is entitled to speak his own language. Would I recommend NOT to learn to write/read/theory? Decidedly not. But the fact that I don't know how to decode-explain-write down what I am doing or what my mind is thinking when I play, does not mean that I am by defaulf a worse player than the next musically well educated guy. Music is about inspiration and proper coordination between mind, hands, eyes, ears. If one can put it on paper and even teach it, well: its better, but not the most importante thing. My humble point of view. :)
 
I like to joke that I can read any chart...as long as you give me all day to do it. As a dumb-ass rock'n'roll bass player, theory helps me communicate to others. It's good to have. But y'know, the classic rock/dance/r&b bass lines I play are mostly self-evident, so it isn't often that I have any reason to say anything.
 
I had a math professor in university who remarked that he did not understand people who had no intellectual curiosity, referring to those who would make no effort to learn more than the minimum they felt they needed. His thinking comes to mind with each recycle of these “music theory” threads.

No subject is going to be attractive to everyone. When I was teaching fifty middle school students, I quickly learned which students were hungry to learn and fed them eagerly. But, I also learned that I derived no satisfaction in trying to teach those who were indifferent; never try to teach a pig to sing because it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
 
Ear player for simple blues-based pop rock or pop covers: none (this is maybe the bulk of hobbyists?)

Good reader who always has notes to read: none (most in this category learned plenty of theory incidentally along the way)

Everybody else should at least understand the basics of harmony (chords/intervals) and melody (scales/modes).

YMMV
 

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