How much music theory do you really need to know?

[KidAmnesia]

Music theory is absolutely unnecesary to be able to play music. BUT it's a usefull language to be able to comunicate with other musicians if all of them are fluent in that language.

I'm currently playing in a project with my younger brother. He can play guitar quite good, way better than me at least, he can sing, he can dabble in drums and keys, has excellent rhythm and musical ideas, memorizes new songs and arrangements quickly... but he knows 0 music theory. He has some degree of dyslexia and doesn't even remember the name of the notes of the open strings of the guitar. So, communicating with him is a challenge; if I want to show him a new chord or arrangement I need to grab a guitar and show him where the fingers go in the fretboard or refference something he knows as "the E chord form that song". It would be easier for all of us if he knew some theorical language, and it would save us some time if I could just tell him "play an E7#9" or "don't play the root on the E string"; but I don't think he would play any better if he knew theory. I mean, I know a fair ammount of theory and can't play as good as he does.

 

[Malcolm35]

What is this chord's spelling? (Notes/pitches, Please.)
I've never seen this nomenclature before.
(I know SOME Theory, FYI.) Please. Thanks.

Chord tones, aka R-3-5-7 leave the 9, 11 and 13 for later... . Chord tones are what we play 95% of the time. Here is another cut and paste paper for your reference file.

My old standby chart of generic bass lines using the major scale box as a Rosetta stone.

Bass Patterns based upon the Major Scale box.

Major Scale Box.
G~~|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D~~|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A~~|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E~~|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
You may recognize this pattern with dots.
Adding the numbers lets the pattern come alive.

Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. Find a C note on the 3rd or 4th string and put this box's R over that C note. Then play the "spelling" for the Cmaj7 chord. That spelling is listed below and it is R-3-5-7. If you wanted to play the C major scale, that spelling is R-2-3-4-5-6-7. One pattern used a hundred difference ways......

Basic Chord Spellings

• Major Triad = R-3-5 for the C chord.
• Minor Triad = R-b3-5 for the Cm chord.
• Diminished Chord = R-b3-b5 for the Cdim chord.

7th Chord Spellings

• Maj7 = R-3-5-7 for the Cmaj7 chord.
• Minor 7 = R-b3-5-b7 for the Cm7 chord.
• Dominant 7 = R-3-5-b7 for the C7 chord.
• ½ diminished = R-b3-b5-b7 for the Cm7b5 chord.
• Full diminished = R-b3-b5-bb7 for the C with the little o - no strike through.

See a chord and play it's chord tones. As every key will have three major, three minor and one diminished chord it's a good idea to get your major, minor and diminished bass line chord tones into muscle memory so when you see a chord your fingers just know what will work. Now the song may only give you enough room for the root, or root five - adapt and get as many chord tones into your bass line as needed. Root on 1 and a steady groove from the other chord tones plus something to call attention to the chord change is what we do.

Scale Spellings Yep, gotta do our scales so our fingers know where the notes are and our ears get used to the good and bad sounds. Scales are a right of passage thing. Got to know them, however, chord tones is what we get paid to play.

• Major Scale = R-2-3-4-5-6-7 Home base
• Major Pentatonic = R-2-3-5-6 Leave out the 4 & 7
• Natural Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-b7 Major scale with the 3, 6 & 7 flatted.
• Minor Pentatonic = R-b3-4-5-b7 Leave out the 2 & 6.
• Blues = R-b3-4-b5-5-b7 Minor pentatonic with the blue note b5 added.
• Harmonic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-b6-7 Natural minor with a natural 7.
• Melodic Minor Scale = R-2-b3-4-5-6-7 Major scale with a b3.

Let the major scale be your home base then change a few notes and you have something different. No need to memorize a zillion patterns. Let the major scale pattern be your go to pattern - then adapt/adjust from there.

Generic Notes - for your bass line.

• The root, five and eight are generic (R-5-8-5) and fit most any chord. Remember the diminished has a flatted 5.
• The 3 is generic to all major chords. So R-3-5-3 will fit under any major chord.
• The b3 is generic to all minor chords. And R-b3-5-8 will fit under any minor chord. Why the 8? Well the 8 is just another root in the next octave.
• The 7 is generic to all maj7 chords. Yep, R-3-5-7 fits nicely.
• The b7 is generic to all dominant seventh and minor seventh chords. G7 = R-3-5-b7 or Gm7 = R-b3-5-b7.
• The 6 is neutral and adds color, help yourself to 6’s. Love the sound of R-3-5-6 with a major chord.
• The 2 and 4 make good passing notes. Don’t linger on them or stop on them, keep them passing. Why? 2's and 4's are found in Sus chords and Sus chords are fill chords wanting to go to a chord with a 3 or b3 in the make-up. Plenty of time for this later.
• In making your bass line help yourself to those notes, just use them correctly.
• Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 & 7 will play a lot of bass.

OK fine, how to use all that I know is the question. How about some generic riffs and or grooves:

|6667 8555 5668|5538 6333 3378| and the ole R-5-8-5 will fit most anywhere. 1, 2 ,3 ,5 ,6 major pentatonic will let you do a bunch of melodic bass, dare I say soloing.

 

[groooooove]

man, i don't love this argument at all.

Yes, you can get away with a lot with no training. absolutely.

but the implication that you wouldn't be better if you knew more seems totally unfounded to me.

imagine applying this to another trade. Can you make nice stuff with basic at-home carpentry skills? hell yeah. is there an argument that you'd be worse at making the same simple things if you had years of training and all the skills it takes to do the more difficult jobs?

the problem with this argument is that it's difficult to test. we don't have two eric claptons, to put one through music school and the other left with no training.

For a hobby player who just wants to play some ac/dc or whatever, i agree they need zero understanding of voice leading, or harmonic structures, or how a fugue works. But again, strengthening your "music muscles" only makes you stronger as a whole and I am of the opinion that it will never take anything away from your starting point as a player. (good training, that is. crappy teachers may screw up your starting point, i'm sure.)

 

[Ggaa]

In my micro niche, need to know, none. Good to know, and sometimes useful, all you can absorb. I didn't understand theory until I'd been playing for 10 years, then it started making sense. Like, 'ohh, THAT'S what that is'. It can help, wish I read better....

 

[Jason Sypher]

man, i don't love this argument at all.

Yes, you can get away with a lot with no training. absolutely.

but the implication that you wouldn't be better if you knew more seems totally unfounded to me.

imagine applying this to another trade. Can you make nice stuff with basic at-home carpentry skills? hell yeah. is there an argument that you'd be worse at making the same simple things if you had years of training and all the skills it takes to do the more difficult jobs?

the problem with this argument is that it's difficult to test. we don't have two eric claptons, to put one through music school and the other left with no training.

For a hobby player who just wants to play some ac/dc or whatever, i agree they need zero understanding of voice leading, or harmonic structures, or how a fugue works. But again, strengthening your "music muscles" only makes you stronger as a whole and I am of the opinion that it will never take anything away from your starting point as a player. (good training, that is. crappy teachers may screw up your starting point, i'm sure.)

I think it’s a disaster to not understand the basics: circle of fifths, all major and minor chords, common terminology, standard chord movements. If someone can’t lean over and tell you “It’s a basic I-V-VI-IV pattern, bridge starts on a VI to IV back and forth and then II-Vs back to the A section, then tag it with a I-V vamp to cue” and then you play exactly that you probably won’t be a gigging bassist. I know that some people don’t want that but that’s the ground floor for being a professional.

 

[SteveCS]

It’s a good question. Some notation software by default changes double sharps to X. I find it less confusing to see ##.

The correct notation symbol for double-sharp is a stylized (germanic) 'X'. This is nothing to do with software rendering - it has been a part of standard notation for centuries:

The '##' would never appear as a standard symbol, but is common where standard musical symbols are not easily available, such as text-based forums! In that context they mean the same thing. '##' is more popular because most folks reading this forum don't know the standard symbol, and many can't get their heads around the concept of the double-sharp and why it is needed. Which brings us nicely back to the OP question...

 

[BassinCT]

Theory is used to analyze, codify, and define what is played or written. When diving into music, you have to decide how important it is for you to understand the systems, and how deep to dive.
The more complex the music, the more difficult it is to communicate certain details with clarity to others without some theory background. Composing?

I like geeking out on theory, but the expression of ideas and emotions through feel, groove, phrasing, communicating, tone…those things have to come first in my work.

 

[Al Rivera]

Playing in bands is so much easier if everyone speaks the same languge.....being ignorant isn't cool or a badge of honor! I want to be the beast musician I can possibly be,that leads me to at least always try to continue my musical education.

 

[Leonid Nidis]

Theory is a short cut.
Play long enough and you will get to the same place by hearing what sounds good.
Theory explaines why it sounds good.

 

[Jefenator]

In the heat of the moment, if it sounds good, it is good. No one likes to have a band mate dweeb out onstage. (I learned that pretty quickly, my first year out of school.)
But that doesn't give one a license to be an airhead.
Certain vocalists seem prone to thinking they can get by with just a binder full of Googled lyrics. Ask them something remotely technical in rehearsal and you'll get this deer in headlights look. (One literally couldn't tell a verse from a chorus.) That drives me nuts.
My favorite vocalist to work with has a master's degree in music education. You don't exactly need all that knowledge to sing her genre (country) but you can sure feel the difference. No blanking out - she always knows where she is & what's going on. Even when she messes up, she knows exactly what happened and she leads the band through it.
If you have to ask, I say keep learning. You can always forget, ignore or break the rules later.

 

[Jogobass]

All of it. It's like a painter knowing all the colors and how they work together. For the sake of knowing your trade. You can put stuff together without theory but then you're leaving it to chance whether it's decent or not. A good ear goes a long way though. I get annoyed when I hear something and don't know what's going on. The only cure for me is to know more theory.

 

[Malcolm35]

Right now I'm into cocktail piano. What I do is follow a chord progression with my left hand and fake the melody with my right hand. Yep, sound familiar. To do that I have to rely upon a bunch of theory shed time. My point, do not run from theory, embrace it.

We eat this theory burger by taking enough to satisfy our hunger, however, not so much at one time that it makes us sick. It is a journey.

 

[logdrum]

Know theory but also hear it.

But time and keeping it tight surpasses theory specially for a bass player

 

[IamGroot]

Beginner level describes my reading ability

I dont get too many sight reading blues or rock gigs.

 

[IamGroot]

For me? Very minimal. I'm a weekend hacker!

So was the executioner for Mary, Queen of the Scots.

 

[Kipp Harrington]

So was the executioner for Mary, Queen of the Scots.

Ah... looks like I may have to change professions.

 

[Malcolm35]

All of it. It's like a painter knowing all the colors and how they work together. For the sake of knowing your trade. You can put stuff together without theory but then you're leaving it to chance whether it's decent or not. A good ear goes a long way though. I get annoyed when I hear something and don't know what's going on. The only cure for me is to know more theory.

Yellow, Blue, Red, White and Black will paint any picture you want. Knowing how much of each to use will give you the mood you want. If you don't watch your colors, you end up with mud. The more you know your chance of making what you know come out on the canvas increases.

 

[IamGroot]

Yellow, Blue, Red, White and Black will paint any picture you want. Knowing how much of each to use will give you the mood you want. If you don't watch your colors, you end up with mud. The more you know your chance of making what you know come out on the canvas increases.

The Zorn palette refers to a palette of colors attributed to the great Swedish artist Anders Zorn (18 February 1860 – 22 August 1920). It consists of just 4 colors yellow ochre, ivory black, vermilion, and titanium white. Cadmium red light is commonly used in place of vermilion by modern-day artists.

 

[logdrum]

Know theory but also hear it.

But time and keeping it tight surpasses theory specially for a bass player

However not discounting what Mr @IamGroot is telling. I know not everyone plays jazz here but if you play with a piano player that will revoice or invert like crazy, for example the Hendrix chord with the #9 but he only gives you the 7th and the #9. And then there are ethnic or world music influences (exotic scales the heptatonic list he gave a few days ago) And tritone substitutions used in many R&B songs and turn arounds.

It is not bad to know and me myself I review these things as often as I can.

 

[Thumpin6string]

I took theory mainly to understand why I could play certain notes that didn't seem to go with the chords and they sounded good. It clarified things and opened my mind to do more.