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How to play like Phil Lesh?

#81
Bassmickeyd said:
Buster's Bust;
Scott/Phil, Bill/Jerry, Junky poets, Inaugural balls, modal, frightened presidents and chemical inspiration.
OK class, now who can tell me the difference between substance and substances?

PS:
I can see that Phil, who started out on trumpet, a melodic instrument with somewhat limited range, would approach and play bass in a similar manner. With a lot of staccato chromatic runs.
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I hate tests, unless they are the electric cool-aid kind;)
Substance/Substances. is this like chasten/chastise?

Substances would be like quidity, as in Thomistic Philisophy (no pun intended), taken from Aristotle's Metaphysics, the whatness or thatness of a thing's Being. Important because Aristotle is building the case (against Plato) that existence precedes essence. As in "your honor, we found these substances in the defendant's guitar case. Mr. Garcia claimed they were for medicinal purposes only."

Now substance I take to mean that the arresting officer is basing the "substance" of his argument on more than one non-sequitar errors of the Arisrotelian variety, id exempli, guilt by association. That because the white powder was in a guitar case, it must be drugs, since all guitar players are dope fiends, especially those named Garcia, especially the Garcias driving at illlegal speeds, who claim they were on their way to work and didn't want to be late. The Prosecution submits to the court that going to a Grateful Dead Show hardly qualifies as "Work." In sumation, these are the conclusions upon which I base my facts, and we think we have no left turn unstoned in establishing the State's guilt in this case of the Government taking the law into it's own hands. Larry! Moe! The cheese!
 
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#85
Hey now! I've been lurking on TB for a bit, and I'm finding this thread very interesting. It seems as though most of the big points have been covered already. Being able to think on your feet is very important, being "in tune" with your band mates is very important. Having an incredibly strong grasp of theory is important too. Phil is a freakin genius when it comes to speaking the language that is music. If i'm not mistaken, he also has perfect pitch, which is a considerable gift that i would love to have. Jerry once said in an interview that often times if you miss the first and last notes of one of Phil's runs, it won't make sense. He speaks in paragraphs and pages, not sentences or words, which can pretty much be said for the whole band, as a whole, and as individuals. Certainly part of what made Phil the bass player he turned out to be is the ridiculous amount of time the Dead practiced in the early days. It was not uncommon for them to play for ten or twelve hours a day, seven days a week in the 60's. Lots and lots and lots of free form jamming, to the point where the different players in the band would finish each others musical lines, giving the Dead that "writhing ball of snakes" type sound. Phil is absolutely my all time favorite bass player, and you certainly can't go wrong trying to emulate his style or tone.
 
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#87
megadan said:
Contrary to what I or others may have said in this thread, I do thing the drugs contributed.

Maybe not in a "he was always stoned when he played!" kind of way, but in a general mindset way, to be sure.
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Absolutely! If you put the drug use (at least in the 60's) into context, there's no other conclusion. When they started using LSD, it was legal. They were convinced they had stumbled upon something truly magical, a gateway to an alternate consciousness. They often played high on LSD. To be certain there were lots of train wrecks when they were tripping, but the extreme mind f%&#'s they must have had when the music played them, and it really was effortless, and it became "one", all that good 'ol grateful dead sort of stuff, well, I can only imagine. That absolutely influenced Phil and everyone else's playing. I would wager that it had sort of a "chasing the dragon" effect on them. When they really nailed it, it just made them come back for more, musically. I would think those moments probably rank as some of the high points of his life, outside his family.
 
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#89
I read to this point of the message thread and stopped to reply. So, if I'm repeating what someone else has said, sorry...

Kevin Rosen is the bass player for DSO. I liken his playing as a mix of Phil Lesh and John Kahn (Jerry's band), yet he has his own tone and approach to it all. The P-bass is either a 1976 or 78 model. I don't know if the electronics are stock, but that bass coupled with his Eden rig gives a massive low end. In fact, I think it sound much more powerful and ballsy than the Modulus 6 stringer that he usually plays when the band is doing 80's era shows. Kevin is the reason I bought a P-bass; I heard that deep tone the first time I saw DSO in 2006 and I knew that I'd be buying one soon.

About Phil's playing, don't forget a good listening to his masterful work on 1974-1977 era songs like "Mexicali Blues", "El Paso" and "Me and My Uncle". Quite often when playing these he would start at the root, go quickly to the root up one octave and work the notes in the next octive. Then he would quickly go all the way down below the root and come back up. What a trip!

edmidlifecrisis said:
So I just got home from seeing the Dark Star Orchestra (Yes, I know I should be sleeping but too many coffees and diet cokes and here I am at 2:30 AM).

They were pretty amazing at re-creating an actual Grateful Dead live show. The two singers/guitarists actually have better voices than Jerry G and Bob W but sound the same tonally. It was impressive, the overall sound was really excellent. The bass player's tone was monster, it was very bottom heavy but fit the mix beautifully. Just great. The noodling and the long drum solos, like in the old days, were a bit much but part of the charm, I guess. So were the many hundreds of beautiful young things dancing away in the crowd, some VERY close to our personal space, actually a bit TOO close.......makes me nervous, hey, I'm old.....

The crowd was tremendous, and the venue was very crowded with no seating. Standing for three or four hours is not what it used to be....

I couldn't see the stage very well. But I saw, lo and behold, a natural wood colored P-bass with maple neck and thumbrest off the G string, a 62 reissue maybe? Who knows. Too far away. The bass player used a pick and played close to the neck. And he really nailed it. WOW!!

Ed
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#91
Interesting view of P.L.'s playing by Stonefly.
Though, I think enough has been said about the bands "drug use".
The drugs had more to do with the times than the band. Many musicians had played music before the 1960's but not many with the sudden musical freedom that was brought about by the late 60's music and the West coast scene. Pre-60's freedom examples were Coltrane, Parker and Armstrong. To name a small few players that inspired they playing thru drug use.

Drugs don't poison people. People poison people when they let drugs control them. I'm not standing up for drugs I'm saying that whatever drug you take wether it's LSD or aspirin or pain killers or meth or, alcohol or, or. They're just drugs. And they're only dangerous when "WE" take too many of them and let "THEM" control our lives.
Drugs aren't the problem.
Do not say NO to life and the things that surround your life.
Say I'm in control of my life.
 
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#92
Bassmickeyd said:
Interesting view of P.L.'s playing by Stonefly.
Though, I think enough has been said about the bands "drug use".
The drugs had more to do with the times than the band. Many musicians had played music before the 1960's but not many with the sudden musical freedom that was brought about by the late 60's music and the West coast scene. Pre-60's freedom examples were Coltrane, Parker and Armstrong. To name a small few players that inspired they playing thru drug use.

Drugs don't poison people. People poison people when they let drugs control them. I'm not standing up for drugs I'm saying that whatever drug you take wether it's LSD or aspirin or pain killers or meth or, alcohol or, or. They're just drugs. And they're only dangerous when "WE" take too many of them and let "THEM" control our lives.
Drugs aren't the problem.
Do not say NO to life and the things that surround your life.
Say I'm in control of my life.
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+1 I saw the Dead and PL with his Tyrannosaurus Ritter 3 months ago. He played all the usual Phil licks and bombs and had an apparent blast doing so. And I don't believe drugs were involved; he has a fairly new liver and I think he foreswore substance abuse when he acquired it.

He's an inspiration: I wish I could look forward to drawing crowds of 20-somethings when I hit 65.:bassist:
 
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#93
R D Maynard said:
+1 I saw the Dead and PL with his Tyrannosaurus Ritter 3 months ago. He played all the usual Phil licks and bombs and had an apparent blast doing so. And I don't believe drugs were involved; he has a fairly new liver and I think he foreswore substance abuse when he acquired it.

He's an inspiration: I wish I could look forward to drawing crowds of 20-somethings when I hit 65.:bassist:
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Couldn't agree more. Let's all pray that they've slowed down the Hep C so he can get some decent milage out of the new liver.

Tasteless deadhead joke:
Doctor comes into Phil's room at the hospital and says "Phil I got some good news and I've got some bad news."
Phil says "Well damn, give me the good news first!"
Doc says "We finally found a liver for you."
Phil says "Doc, that's great news! Wait, what's the bad news"
Doc says "We got the liver out of Mickey Mantle." :crying:
 
#94
So, Phil is on the cover of the latest BP mag. Here's the first paragraph of the article (by Brian Fox), which speaks volumes about his musical approach:

If you've ever experienced a jam fizzle into nothingness -- or outright trainwreck in a blaze of glory -- you've had a taste of what Phil Lesh has come to crave every night on tour. "I love when that happens," the iconic guru muses on the eve of the Dead's celebrated return to the touring circuit. "It means that all of a sudden, everyone is out of their comfort zone. My philosophy has always been that there are no mistakes, only opportunities. When something like that happens, it's a chance for any one of us to jump in with an idea to take us in a completely new direction. Sometimes it happens so smoothly that it's never perceived as a trainwreck or any loss of momentum -- it's just a chance of texture, groove, or tempo. I live for those moments."

Geez, how cool is that?!?!
 
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#97
If it hasn't been mentioned before, anyone that wants to get a good sample of what Phil can do (on a 4 string at least) should definitely check out any live GD shows from 1972-1974. These are prime years for Phil and he's nice and up front in the mix.

The Eleven from Live! Dead is a great example of Phil as a song writer, too.
 
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#98
smeet said:
I find it interesting that there is so much praise for Phil Lesh's playing.

I don't think he plays like a bass player. Nor a guitarist. More like a horn player I guess. That's great for solos, but I don't want to listen to horn lines played throughout all the songs. I never felt any sense of groove from him.

IMO there needs to be some consistent ostinato-like element to a bass line. Even in jazz, where the notes are up to the player, the rhythm tends to be very steady. I always found Phil's playing distracting due to his noodly style.

Oh, and I don't particularly care for his tone either. :spit:

On topic, in addition to playing with a pick by the neck, it sounds like he also plays very high on the neck on the lower strings.
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Interesting point since Phil started out as a trumpet player in school.
 
#99
Get a few live Dead cds and you'll hear alot of great playing that only Phil does. He has his own style, but he makes sure his playing fits the song, and keeps things rolling. I'm an old mouldy Deadhead, and actually got to talk with Phil almost 40 years ago. He got me started on using 18 cabs, which I still do at outdoor shows. I can't play like Phil, but I have copped a few licks from him over the years. Listening to Phil, Duck Dunn, Jaco, Entwistle, Bruce, and some of the really original players is still one of my guilty pleasures.
 
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