I just got fired because I wouldn't Play for Free

[Fine Cut]

i've been playing in bands for about 3 yrs now, and i must say that money has come to be an issue through that time, especially since i got my license. I dont necessarily demand to be paid at, say, a coffee shop gig, sitting in on a song or two for a friend on acoustic, but when the band gets together for a weekend gig, i do expect to be paid. Cables cost money. Straps cost money. Strings cost money. i'm all for setting up in a park, or on the beach with my acoustic and jamming for the enjoyment, but when it comes to "working" i.e. setting up a complete sound system, lighting rig, not to mention my rig for a 4 hour weekend show, i better have something in hand afterward...i mean, i LOVE my music, but my Camaro doesnt run on "enjoyment"

 

[JEDI BASS]

If I'm gonna play covers, sacrifice family time to play someobody else's music (practice and gigs), I'd better be gettin some money! Needless to say I've never played in a covers-only band.

 

[Guiseppe]

Why is it so hard for some of you people to comprehend that a serious band would play for free? I make alot of money where I work, as does the others. We dont need to play for money.

Is that really so hard to understand? Or is it that your arrogance gets in the way of believing that a "good" band would play for free?

Not hard to comprehend at all. Personally, I value the time, sweat, and cash I've invested in my playing, and want to get something back out of it. With gas being as expensive as it is, my cabinets and amps being as heavy as they are, and my time being as valuable as it is, I personally won't invest myself/my gear/my time in something that I'm not rewarded from. I'm sure that it's a lot of your opinions that "you can be rewarded in ways other than cash", and that's true...however, cold cash in my wallet is a suitable reward for me. Would I NEVER play for free? I never say never. If there was a good charitable organization/event, or a friend asked for a special reason, it'd likely happen. But to go do it in a venue (club/bar/whatever) where someone is making a profit off of MY investment, that's selling myself short. I do enough investment in the local bar without schlepping gear and playing for free. My opinion is that if you want to play for the "joy of it", I'd do it at my own house and invite some friends over to party with the band. I don't consider myself arrogant, or "all that" as a musician, just someone that enjoys being a 'paid' semi-pro player. I love playing for people just like you, but I've quit several gigs that turned out to be "chump change" gigs that weren't even enough to pay for the gas I spend driving to the gig/rehearsals. My time is worth that to me.

 

[Guiseppe]

When my current band was starting out and new to the area, we were aware that there were likely dues to be paid. I booked a few gigs at clubs that I thought would be receptive to our style(s), and offered the owners to do a couple of sets on an "off" night (weekday) at a minimal investment on their part. This was at least enough to cover the gas to get there. We were able to sell some merchandise to compensate for the low pay.

I don't think that you have to "give it away". If you do a good enough demo, package your materials well, and play your a$$es off, the rewards will come. If not, then wipe the dust off your shoes and move on. It happens to the best of them (SRV got booed loudly at Montreaux), so just roll on...

 

[Jouni]

This s*it is tricky... Just have started to think of it myself....


I play in a metal-band, for a few years now.

When I started there I never thought it would go ANYWHERE, just fun playing and grabbing a couple of beers on the side.

Now, we've had half a dozen gigs, in six months time, locally and other cities. No money. Well, we got 80 bucks from the last, but that's gas money.

I work days, I have an other hobby that pays me good money, like 80 bucks for three hours.

It's our singer/songwriters band, I only make my basslines, but like playing.

In some matter of time, a situation will occur:
"Will I go out-of-town for a gig, on my own expence, taking a couple of days off me... Or stay at home, make 60-80 bucks in a 3-4 hour job, and let the band down??!........

..Will take this up with the singer/songwriter at our next "Blackmetal-Sauna" beer drinking/sauna session..

Decisions have to be done there...... sometime.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Jimi buddy you did the right thing.

For non-original stuff at non-charity events. Do you know any DJs who will do a show (at a commercial establishment) for free? nah... and they have even less to do than a musician. No practice, no travel to practice, less equipment to haul around/set up etc.

Honestly now that I have meshed the OP's story to the guy who told the other side it looks like I would have to side with Jimi. I mean I believe that the guys he worked with were nice (as both sides have said) but they don't seem to be very good communicators or very thoughtful or something.

I mean if I am looking for a band and they asked me to join then they only told me later that I had to help pay for rehearsal space, I don't know if I would have been as reasonable as Jimi was by saying "well take it out of my first few gigs pay." I probably would have said "hell no, why didn't you tell me upfront." Actually it would have been worse if they had asked me to pay for space AND ALSO play for free like they did him. I would have asked them if they were F***ING NUTS. I see how this could be different for an original band but if you are a cover band you can either play it convincingly or you can't (well not exactly but it is a lot closer to that than an original band.)

I thought Jimi's answer was perfectly fine and if he had said that to me I would have taken him at his word UNLESS I planned to never make money. So it sounds like they either didn't have the goal or the confidence that they were going to make money. And if I was Jimi and valued myself and my time (or atleast didn't want to lose out on gas) then it was a good split form the band.

To counter the other guy who responded... as I said before Jimi's answer was just fine and reasonable for the rehearsal space. Bringing up the fact that he used there amp is just ridiculous, like they were searching for something to hold against him. IDK maybe they were just trying to show how nice they were being to him, but that is certainly something that has no monetary value in my eyes. And a demo for a cover band LOL (I guess I wouldn't have to ask them if they were F***ING NUTS, I would have known right then.) If he had mentioned the live recording and they blew it off even as he explained why it made sense then they are just dumb.

and so opening for a popular Dallas band is not a "gig" but an audition or some other thing? I lost ya there bud.

And in no way would I call the OPs original post pouting. Frankly I am glad he posted it. It was well put and it gave us a chance to see what everyone is thinking.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

If a bar owner was lame enough to not even consider paying me at all then I would try to pull this one on him. I would actually have my band book the gig and bring nothing but their instruments.

I would set up on stage and then before I started I would have the singer announce that since the owner would not pay us that we would be playing unamplified. And then I would ask the audience how lame they thought the owner was. Then I would ask them if they would like it if the owner offered free beer, since basically that is what he is asking us to do. Get the crowd all fired up. Then I would tell them that they should go and find another bar if we get kicked off the stage. Maybe I would use a mic for all of this but I would bring a megaphone just in case the soundman decided to mute me.

I would also have someone videotape it and post it on youtube. I would also want the videotape just in case any bouncers are ordered to destroy any band equipment etc.

I haven't had the opportunity to do this but I think I would. It would probably have to be a punk band or atleast a band with punk ethics LOL

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Do you really think that bands who played at live aid or farmaid traveled there on their own bill and paid for their own hotel room?

Do you really think that people that play in commercial establishments should not get paid for their gas to practice and the gig?

I play open mics for free but that is it. The open mic is free to the public and I like doing it. However the crowd has to accept that open mics are just that. they must be polite and applaud every act even though they might suck. If I ever saw anyone put a musician down at an open mic I would have words with them. I would ask them how much they are paying to see this person.

Sounds like those with this position aren't the ones to ask for help with charity gigs - no Farm Aid - no Live Aid - no causes - no benefits - and no playing in a jam if it's in a commercial establishment.

Or at least that's the way it reads to me. That's fair enough, since we all have to make that decision. I just think there are circumstances under which playing and not taking home money is not only reasonable, but sometimes commendable.

 

[WarriorJoe7]

Oh BTW my car needs fixed. Does anyone know of any mechanics that haven't sold out yet? I could really use one

 

[WarriorJoe7]

I think its always best on to get a bit of money, and if the promoter tries to wiggle out of it, push em against a wall an use the old "you promised us this money so were going to get something, even if its 10 quid less" it normally works well yes

when they back out then go forward and get setup. Then right before you start talk to him and tell him that this is his last chance. Tell him that you plan to tell the the crowd what he did so he might as well get on out of there or pay up. Then require him to pay you up front. Then tell him that if he blacklists you that you will let every musician in the area know what he is up to.

 

[Munjibunga]

I think they fired you in a very professional way. It's clear your objectives and theirs aren't aligned, so the right thing happened before it evolved into a situation full of animus.

 

[von buck]

I can't believe that some here have a problem with going to a jam in a commercial establishment and playing. That's part of sharing music with others - and the commercial joint that's smart enough to host it is both gaining an advantage AND providing an opportunity we wouldn't have otherwise. Fair trade.

IBut when it comes to jams - if you don't want to participate - then don't. In most places where I've played in jams, they either have a house band that starts it off, or they have no band at all if the jam isn't taking place. Nobody's getting hurt by playing at jams.

I only go to jams if a friend is running it, or if I'm visiting out of my area to check out the local scene. I don't want to share my music, I want to work, it's called networking. Plus I've been involved with too many host bands. Playing with crappy musicians is bad enough when your being paid, but to play with them for free.....

Andy

 

[von buck]

So there you bunch of mercenaries.

Mercenary and proud. You can throw in whore if you want to.

Andy, whoring for thirty years

 

[von buck]

I just ask this simple question:

Is there one musician in this discussion who has NEVER played a free gig???

JMO

Only two since high school and they were both for Katrina.

Andy

 

[QORC]

I am posting this mostly because I find it humorous and was wanting to hear a few opinions about it.

First, let me say this is a cover band.

Second, I have been less than enthused with about 1/2 of the song selections, and I have been keeping my ear to the ground for a new band anyway.

Third, When I was asked to join I let them know in no uncertain terms that I did not want to be in a practice band and that working was my first priority.

Here is the email I got from them Yesterday.

Jimi,

We discussed it as a group and we have decided that we want to go with another bass player. We appreciate the areas where you have helped. However there are some fundamental differences. As a band we want the freedom to be able to play anytime we want without pay being the top priority. We sincerely hope that we can remain friends and possibly help each other down the road.
We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors and hope to see you at a show sometime.

Regards,

The Band

It's really to bad as we just added a really good keyboard player and he was keeping the guitars in line and things were tightening up nicely. Although in the long run I think they just helped me out because I am not good a quiting until things become totally intolerable.

Curious to read your thoughts now.

Thanks,
Jimi

Here's my thoughts. Doing this by email is SOOOOOOOOOO low-class, cowardly chicken***.

You're better off without these douchebags.

I bet the guy that wrote it will never use the word "endeavor" again the rest of his life.

That being said, I too am in it for fun. Some gigs are so cool, I WOULD do them for free. Occasionally we play for free (we're doing a charity event this weekend as a matter of fact), but I gotta admit, I think we should be paid for our time. We work hard. We travel.

But I wouldn't absolutely turn down a free gig. Now if the band was really not getting paid properly or only rarely, I would probably move on.


but the way they handled it? It's chicken****. I don't have time to read all 11 pages - what did the OP respond to them?

 

[sonicnuance]

I find this thread very interesting and would like to add a different perspective.

I sub on a worship team in a medium sized Church for free. I don't play because it is fun (it usually is, but not always), I play for religious reasons. None of the musicians on these teams (except the fulltime worship pastor) get paid. If they paid me I would be grateful but I don't expect it. Granted, this is a different situation than a club where the goal is to get people to buy drinks and/or food. We could argue that my situation undercuts those who want to play on a Worship team for pay, but I fear that would turn into a religious argument that I don't want to get into. In my mind, this situation (playing on a worship team) isn't about making money, its about individuals having an opportunity to serve.

However, playing the worship services has lead to a couple of paying gigs and an offer to join a fulltime band. For those situations I won't play for free because I choose not to. I make too much money in my day job to make the gig money meaningful. However, the money represents the value of my free time which *is* important to me.

For what its worth, I turned down the offer to join the band.

For those of you asking how some of us hobbiests would feel if others offered to do our day jobs for free, I'd like to point a few things out...

1) To play music one generally doesn't need a college degree.
This has the effect of lowering the barrier of entry for hobbiests. I don't mean to say "anyone" can play music well, just that the qualifications are measured differently from other careers. One still has to play well imho, but that doesn't mean he has to get formal training. One could teach themselves by playing along with the radio or CDs for example. One could also go to Julliard School of music and probably be a superior (or at least a more informed) musician. My point is to play in a club usually doesn't require a resume showing how much formal schooling one has.

2) For the line of work I do (in electronics), one needs at least six years of college to get in the door which is quite expensive. This raises the barrier to entry for prospective electronics hobbiests. I haven't met a hobbiest yet who would undercut my pay rate. One could theoretically learn my trade by reading books in a library for free, but I have never seen this happen. Plus, the hobbiest's resume needs to show a college degree as that is what virtually 100% of his competition has.

3) In my job, there are countries where workers are willing to do the job for a much lower rate which has forced me to show I am worth the extra money. This has included me gaining extra skills.

I don't intend this to start a flame war, but I do want to bring another perspective for consideration.

 

[Turock]

Those who wish to play for free should do so... in their own basements... instead of cheapening the scene and cutting the throats of fellow musicians (with mouths to feed).
If someone's passion for music is so great that they would play for free, then quit that cushy day job and go for it full time... or get out of the way for those that do.

 

[sonicnuance]

Those who wish to play for free should do so... in their own basements... instead of cheapening the scene and cutting the throats of fellow musicians (with mouths to feed).
If someone's passion for music is so great that they would play for free, then quit that cushy day job and go for it full time... or get out of the way for those that do.

So, am I to understand that any non professional musician with a passion for music has a cushy day job?

 

[Turock]

So, am I to understand that any non professional musician with a passion for music has a cushy day job?

Yeah; didn't you know?

 

[sonicnuance]

Yeah; didn't you know?

Apparently I've been working my tail off for no reason - silly me.