I just got fired because I wouldn't Play for Free

[aborgman]

How much did your band get paid last gig aborgman?

About $300 for a 4 piece.

How long did you play?

3x45' with 15' breaks.

How far did you travel?

About 1.5 miles.

What is the total cost of your band's equipment?

Our bands equipment? A bit less than $1000 - we're pretty good at finding deals. Our individual equipment? Who knows.

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with anything though... I work for money because that is the value I place on my time, effort, and equipment... I'm not so egocentric as to believe that my valuation is somehow the "right" valuation for everyone though.

--
aborgman

 

[Intune]

I'm just tryin' to figure where you fall in the hamburger/Filet Mignon & Grey Goose/swill comparisons you gave. For your upcoming show at The Taproom Annex you are charging $5.00 a head. Given the close proximity, low overhead and your staunch support of free goods shouldn't these Taproom gigs be freebies? After all, one can't even get a good burger for $5. Swill? Sure. So somewhere between swill & a decent burger..? I, on the other hand, think $5 a head is a great starting price for a band. Doesn't crunch the patron too hard and one can make some damn decent money with a well-established fan base. You charge, yet you seem to advocate free shows. I am indeed puzzled.

Please realize that I write a great deal of this with tongue in cheek & a taste of sarcasm. Yanking your chain a bit. Don't take any of it the wrong way.
I like your myspace page esp. the very first post- Classic!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/jdsc727/musicians.jpg

 

[Pilgrim]

I can't believe that some here have a problem with going to a jam in a commercial establishment and playing. That's part of sharing music with others - and the commercial joint that's smart enough to host it is both gaining an advantage AND providing an opportunity we wouldn't have otherwise. Fair trade.

I do respect those who work hard to support themselves by playing professionally. I am NOT one of them - and I recognize that I don't need to take business away from them. I explained earlier that if our band doesn't play at benefits, we charge a customary rate.

But when it comes to jams - if you don't want to participate - then don't. In most places where I've played in jams, they either have a house band that starts it off, or they have no band at all if the jam isn't taking place. Nobody's getting hurt by playing at jams.

 

[aborgman]

I'm just tryin' to figure where you fall in the hamburger/Filet Mignon & Grey Goose/swill comparisons you gave. For your upcoming show at The Taproom Annex you are charging $5.00 a head. Given the close proximity, low overhead and your staunch support of free goods shouldn't these Taproom gigs be freebies?

Where did I ever support free goods? I support people making voluntary exchanges based on their own valuations - I don't work for free, but if someone else feels it is in their best interest it's none of my business to disagree. Everyone should charge whatever they feel is reasonable, whether it be nothing or $10,000 a head.

After all, one can't even get a good burger for $5. Swill? Sure. So somewhere between swill & a decent burger..? I, on the other hand, think $5 a head is a great starting price for a band. Doesn't crunch the patron too hard and one can make some damn decent money with a well-established fan base. You charge, yet you seem to advocate free shows. I am indeed puzzled.

I've never advocated free shows - I've advocated bands and venues making voluntary transactions that they feel are in their best interests. If they feel like working for free is in their best interest, I won't disagree. If they feel like working for free isn't in their best interest, I won't disagree. Every individual transaction can only be evaluated by those involved in it.

Please realize that I write a great deal of this with tongue in cheek & a taste of sarcasm. Yanking your chain a bit. Don't take any of it the wrong way.
I like your myspace page esp. the very first post- Classic!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w191/jdsc727/musicians.jpg

That is a funny one...

--
aborgman

 

[Brad Johnson]

I can't believe that some here have a problem with going to a jam in a commercial establishment and playing. That's part of sharing music with others - and the commercial joint that's smart enough to host it is both gaining an advantage AND providing an opportunity we wouldn't have otherwise. Fair trade.

I do respect those who work hard to support themselves by playing professionally. I am NOT one of them - and I recognize that I don't need to take business away from them. I explained earlier that if our band doesn't play at benefits, we charge a customary rate.

But when it comes to jams - if you don't want to participate - then don't. In most places where I've played in jams, they either have a house band that starts it off, or they have no band at all if the jam isn't taking place. Nobody's getting hurt by playing at jams.

I do that... but I'm in the house band. And I get paid.

 

[mobax]

I do that... but I'm in the house band. And I get paid.

Good point. In my mind there is a world of difference between having people come and sit in when there is a house band on site playing and being paid versus having a bunch of musicians playing for free while the club owner advertises entertainment and charges inflated prices and rakes in the profits. Maybe these "musicians" could go out and pick some cotton on the breaks.

 

[Senor SQUID]

Thats wack. I used to play for free in cover bands when I was in high school and it was called open mic night DOn't sweat it there are plenty of bands out there in need of bassists.
One Love
SQUID

 

[mobax]

Thats wack. I used to play for free in cover bands when I was in high school and it was called open mic night DOn't sweat it there are plenty of bands out there in need of bassists.
One Love
SQUID

I would rather participate in prison sex.

 

[Senor SQUID]

I am 31 that was about 15 yrs ago bro

 

[Brad Johnson]

Good point. In my mind there is a world of difference between having people come and sit in when there is a house band on site playing and being paid versus having a bunch of musicians playing for free while the club owner advertises entertainment and charges inflated prices and rakes in the profits. Maybe these "musicians" could go out and pick some cotton on the breaks.

If you don't value what you do, neither will anyone else.

Even in high school, if you were a decent musician, you got paid. We were hip to the "promotional performance" scam

 

[DanielleMuscato]

The nature of benefits is that there is no pay; this is charity work. Even pros have been known to play benefits.

No; the nature of benefits is that the money that would go to the artists goes to the charity, instead. Also, because a lot of charities (in the USA) are registered 503(c) not-for-profits, the donated fee is actually tax-deductible. There certainly is pay for benefit shows. My charity is putting together a benefit show right now, and we are hiring some good bands to come. We could get somebody to play for free, but we would rather have somebody with a big draw (of course, ideally, we would have both, but we'd rather pay a few hundred $ and get more people there). The principle is the same whether the motive is raising money for a charity or just for profit.

Nothing is "free." If you are not making the money, and a charity is not making the money, then the bar or club is. If money is changing hands (from drinks, or tickets, or whatever), it has to go somewhere.

 

[mobax]

No; the nature of benefits is that the money that would go to the artists goes to the charity, instead.

I think this is the same as saying they don't get paid. If I play and someone else receives the money, no matter how you spin it, I didn't get paid. I can certainly understand that a charity may see value in paying an act to perform. But I don't think you are saying that all acts that appear on let's say the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon get paid, are you?

 

[jgsbass]

But I don't think you are saying that all acts that appear on let's say the Jerry Lewis Labor Day Telethon get paid, are you?

The house band certainly gets paid. They make a killing.The rest "donate" their fees to the cause.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

What I'm saying is, if you're not getting paid, it's a charity gig. Whether that charity is the bar, or an actual not-for-profit charity, that money goes *somewhere.*

So unless you think of your corner club as a charity, don't play for "free"... because in reality, if *you're* not getting paid, you are "donating" your fee to the club's profits.

 

[DanielleMuscato]

I think this is the same as saying they don't get paid.

There is a fundamental difference between a "free" gig and a "charity" gig.

In a free gig, no money changes hands.

In a charity gig, money changes hands, but the money doesn't go to you for your services.

If you are playing a bar or a club, which charges at the door, or charges for drinks, and you are not getting paid, it is not a free gig. It's a charity gig. Just realize that the charity is the bar. If you wouldn't donate money to your local bar, why are you donating services? If you are in an original band and your reason is "exposure," that's one thing. If you are in a cover band, you are basically donating your services to the bar.

You could even say that in a free gig, some money changes hands, because you have to pay for gas, pro-rate the wear & tear on your equipment, etc.

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If money is moving, somebody is getting it. And if it's not you, and it's not a third party, it's the other guy.

 

[mobax]

There is a fundamental difference between a "free" gig and a "charity" gig.

In a free gig, no money changes hands.

In a charity gig, money changes hands, but the money doesn't go to you for your services.

If you are playing a bar or a club, which charges at the door, or charges for drinks, and you are not getting paid, it is not a free gig. It's a charity gig. Just realize that the charity is the bar. If you wouldn't donate money to your local bar, why are you donating services? If you are in an original band and your reason is "exposure," that's one thing. If you are in a cover band, you are basically donating your services to the bar.
You could even say that in a free gig, some money changes hands, because you have to pay for gas, pro-rate the wear & tear on your equipment, etc.

Remember, there is no such thing as a free lunch. If money is moving, somebody is getting it. And if it's not you, and it's not a third party, it's the other guy.

No kidding. Of course what you are saying goes without saying. If I don't get paid, I really don't care where the money goes. The only relevant fact to me is: I get no money. In other words, I don't get paid. Therefore, I don't play. The rest of the economics, of which I am accutely aware, is meaningless to me. In the end, I think we both understand what is happening.

 

[DZIB]

Seems they were cool about it. Maybe it's time you move on.

 

[Lorenzini]

aborgman,

It feels like we are digressing from the original point, which is, people playing gigs for no money for fun, even at a pro level.

 

[Pilgrim]

No kidding. Of course what you are saying goes without saying. If I don't get paid, I really don't care where the money goes. The only relevant fact to me is: I get no money. In other words, I don't get paid. Therefore, I don't play. The rest of the economics, of which I am accutely aware, is meaningless to me. In the end, I think we both understand what is happening.

Sounds like those with this position aren't the ones to ask for help with charity gigs - no Farm Aid - no Live Aid - no causes - no benefits - and no playing in a jam if it's in a commercial establishment.

Or at least that's the way it reads to me. That's fair enough, since we all have to make that decision. I just think there are circumstances under which playing and not taking home money is not only reasonable, but sometimes commendable.

 

[DocBop]

Curious to read your thoughts now.

Thanks,
Jimi

I would say you blew it. It's about playing music sometimes you play for free because it give you a chance to play. Another chance to trying things and opportunity to grow. So now your back to being a bedroom player.

You said you been looking for a band and haven't found anything, so should of tried to keep old gig so you could keep playing with others.

The only musicians who get away with no-pay, no-play are your hired guns big name studio and touring musicians and even they do the occasional freebie or rehearsal because it makes the person who hires you for pay a lot happy. I also don't think your that level player who can sight-read anything, can learn a show in one rehearsal or even without a rehearsal, has great ears so can adapt to changes even while playing, has the gear for any situation, and so on. Or a big name player being hired to do your thing.

Playing with others to the best way to learn even with a bad band you can use it as a challenge to see if you can make them sound better. Plus even a bad situation isn't permanent its a place holder till the next gig. At worse if they were playing free constantly tell them to try and at least get expense money, even freebies understand about the price of gas and burgers.

Should of hung in till you found another gig.