Sounds like everyone got what they wanted. Don't burn bridges. You're a bass player looking for a band or bands. That's rarely a problem. Have fun, make some money.
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I just got fired because I wouldn't Play for Free
- Thread starter Jimi Cleek
- Start date
- Nov 7, 2006
- 751
- 19
- Disclosures
- Endorsing-Trace Elliot,Peavey Basses,PedalTrain,Starkey inears
Bands that play for no compensation are bad for business...Bands that play for substandard compensation are worse...Bands that play for alcohol are the Devil...Not "In My Honest Opinion". Truth...
P.S. The bands who play for "fun" can open for any of us working stiffs for free anytime...Can I get an Amen? No? Oh well...Gotta go to a paying gig now and make the power bill. Thanks!
P.S. The bands who play for "fun" can open for any of us working stiffs for free anytime...Can I get an Amen? No? Oh well...Gotta go to a paying gig now and make the power bill. Thanks!
I've played some auditions and a few benefits but in almost 40 years of playing, I've never played a regular gig for free.
So how smart (on the capitalism ladder) are bands who perform a "job" for free?
But if one understands capitalism AND has the goods one can do like THE SHAKES did this weekend and charge Coors Light $400.00 an hour. We really played the 3 hrs for free...
But felt compelled to charge them accordingly for "moving" expenses. 
Great promoters who appreciate talent keep us from losing, moving or starving. We're not coal miners who'll kick yer teeth in and raze your homes for scabbing at venues. Of course, I can't speak for the other musicians who might be growing a tad weary... "It's a bands job to show a venue that they are worth what they charge..." So if they charge nothing , they are worth...LESS... Wow. Worthless. What a nice feeling that must be. Musicians/bands need to look out for other musicians/bands 'cause we know where SOME venues stand. Do your part, Don't Be Worthless!!!
Me neither. I did work with a "pratice band" earlier this year (against my own policy) because I was helping the drummer out, who's a nice guy. It became clear that, while they sounded very good on stuff they rehearsed into the grown, there was no spontaneity. So, while I will do a gig with them, practice is not going to happen (they rehearse twice a week). Besides, I don't need it... they're doing covers that for the most part I already know.
The gig I did tonight is the type that's probably my favorite. I played in a quintet with other musicians who are full time pros. Two I met for the first time tonight. Another who I hadn't played with in years. We communicated through our instruments and came up with all sorts of cool arrangments and grooves on the fly. Picked up a few gigs because we were very tight but not claustrophobic. The audience love it.
And we got paid well, served dinner and were done by 8:30
This is my part time job and I love it.
Wrong. The idea is that the club has experienced free music, so WHY pay guys $100 a man? They just had a band play for free last week! The problem is the dudes playing for free.
I don't blame the clubs. I do blame the musicians for playing for free. It's calling selling yourself short.
Most audiences at clubs or bars or even restaurants will go there regardless of what kind of entertainment there is. They want the drinks/social atmosphere/drinks.
See quote #1 above. Same idea.
I've seen this in many clubs. "Well, if you won't play for $25 a man, I have 10 bands that will."
1 for 1, those bands are not professionals or are retired, or play for drinks. And they always have a day job. Sure, the music is amateur sounding too, but what does the establishment care? They are only paying them $100!!!
Just found this add on dallas backpage. It seems so fitting to this thread:
"you can play the bass and would probably fit in well with many different types of bands except that you lack self confidence. the ads are intimidating and it's much easier to read them and do nothing than it is to respond. you're insecure about your abilities but you would like an opportunity to play. you prefer to play for the love of the music. gigs and money are not an issue. if this is you, click on "click here"... do it now. opportunity is knocking. answer the door."
At least they were honest, and didn't ask for "pro attitude, pro gear". I think this just about sums up what kind of players play "for the love of music".
"you can play the bass and would probably fit in well with many different types of bands except that you lack self confidence. the ads are intimidating and it's much easier to read them and do nothing than it is to respond. you're insecure about your abilities but you would like an opportunity to play. you prefer to play for the love of the music. gigs and money are not an issue. if this is you, click on "click here"... do it now. opportunity is knocking. answer the door."
At least they were honest, and didn't ask for "pro attitude, pro gear". I think this just about sums up what kind of players play "for the love of music".
Probably gonna open a can of worms here but, oh well. I actually know these guys that the OP is talking about and I know 2 of them pretty good. The story I got was. They payed his rehearsal room rent, gave him an amp to play on and never got a dime from him to pay for anything including a demo. They only asked him to play a 45 minute set as an audition (again no demo) and he backed out after the gig was on the books. so they found a sub. Another opportunity came up to open (1 set) for one of the more popular Dallas bands this guy said it's against his principles to play for free. I don't know him personally but hey these guys paid his way for months and he put time in rehearsing he should have at least gave it a shot. I told them I would help them out if they were in a bind cuz really even though they are a cover band they are really some of the nicest guys I ever met. They never asked him to play a "gig" for free. Like I said I never met him but, I know these guys they have been on the scene for a long time. Playing gigs for free is not what they are about.
They will benefit from someone who is a team player and the OP will benefit from finding something he enjoys. Seems they were pretty cool about it and I know they are happy it's over.
Meanwhile they are playing and he is pouting.
They will benefit from someone who is a team player and the OP will benefit from finding something he enjoys. Seems they were pretty cool about it and I know they are happy it's over.
Meanwhile they are playing and he is pouting.
The Sunday afternoon @ 3:00 audition, right? Surely not the Fri or Sat go on @ 10:00 followed by the two other "auditioning" bands? Sheesh... Since when does being the opening band = free? Oh, oh, let me guess
someone in the band, management or booking mentioned that word... Exposure... Argggg... "They never asked him to play a "gig" for free. Playing gigs for free is not what they are about."
Really?
Your Honor, The Defense rests.
"pouting" ???
I'm starting to believe the OP is a man of principle. Shocking.
Years ago there was a club owner in my area who would stage "jam sessions" where the musicians would get a sandwich and a couple of beers for performing. I refused to participate. The club owner cleaned up on those nights and I never was inclined to pad his bottom line; especially since the guy was a real sphincter who, as I recall, never did a solid (this may be a poor choice of words) for anyone I knew.
Maybe I come from a different position, because I play in a cover band that mainly does benefits. None of us need the money, we just enjoy playing - but we generally do it by supporting local causes. if we don't play benefits, we charge normal band rates for this area.
I think the original post just reflects a difference in goals. Sounds like the band puts playing #1 and pay a distant second. The original poster evidently puts pay at an equal priority with playing. It's just a mismatch of priorities, so it's appropriate for him to find another band. Neither is right or wrong, they just have different goals.
I think the original post just reflects a difference in goals. Sounds like the band puts playing #1 and pay a distant second. The original poster evidently puts pay at an equal priority with playing. It's just a mismatch of priorities, so it's appropriate for him to find another band. Neither is right or wrong, they just have different goals.
My take on benefits is that it's a benefit. It's supposed to be done to help a person, group or cause.
A free or cheaply done gig in a commercial venue = Benefit for the owner of the venue.
No argument here. We fall in the first category.
How does that differ from a standard blues jam night where the musicians just show up and take turns playing? No pay there, but it does provide entertainment for the venue. I have no problem with that at all - everyone coming to the jam knows the rules when they participate. I fail to see the problem.
The nature of benefits is that there is no pay; this is charity work. Even pros have been known to play benefits.
Me neither. I did work with a "pratice band" earlier this year (against my own policy) because I was helping the drummer out, who's a nice guy. It became clear that, while they sounded very good on stuff they rehearsed into the grown, there was no spontaneity. So, while I will do a gig with them, practice is not going to happen (they rehearse twice a week). Besides, I don't need it... they're doing covers that for the most part I already know.
The gig I did tonight is the type that's probably my favorite. I played in a quintet with other musicians who are full time pros. Two I met for the first time tonight. Another who I hadn't played with in years. We communicated through our instruments and came up with all sorts of cool arrangments and grooves on the fly. Picked up a few gigs because we were very tight but not claustrophobic. The audience love it.
And we got paid well, served dinner and were done by 8:30
This is my part time job and I love it.
Ain't it grand. I love the occasional walk on gig also, as long as I can get off playing. I really love playing with my trio; we have some good moments even though we are weekenders. And we do not ask each other to play for free. If I want to give someone a price break as a favor, it comes out of my pocket, not my band mates who I respect.
You are correct in their interpretation of things. Here is mine. There was never any mention of paying rent on the rehearsal space in the ad I responded to or after they offered me the job. It was only brought up on August first once the rent was due. Sorry but if you expect me to chip in better say so up front. As I mentioned in an earlier post I have a music fund that pays for my gear and expenses. I had just bought a new bass and that fund was empty. If they would have told me up front that they expected to be reimbursed or rent I would have told them the same exact thing I told them when they asked for rent on August First. Which was it would need to come out of my pay from our first gigs. Now if they had told me that up front I would have added and probably should have added at that time that if that was unacceptable then I would need to pass on the position.
As a side note the rehearsal hall was one of the nastiest places I have ever been and I have been in a few.
The demo has not been cut so there is no money due. We had discussed cutting a Demo and I voiced the opinion that I find studio demos for cover bands silly. The club owners are usually savvy enough to know that a band might sound great in the studio and not be able to play their way out of a wet paper bag so I didnt really want to participate in that venture. I would rather do a good live recording to show what we would sound like in a real world setting.
The amp was a convenience thing. They said it was no big deal to us theirs as it saved me having to drag mine up and down the stairs all the time for rehearsals. Right now I only have one amp and play several times a week with other people. Oh by the way I had back surgery April 30th so any thing I can do to keep from doing more damage is a good thing, they knew this also. Had I known they would hold that against me, I would have continued to drag my amp up and down the rehearsal halls stairs.
SO I dont see where they paid my way for months. I see where I would owe them for one month rent and that was to be taken out of my pay once we started gigging.
I agree that they are very nice guys. I was very up front about this being a working band and had shared my opinion of doing gigs for free with them on more than one occasion. I don't think they communicated very well on any of the financial decisions concerning the band.
Oh By the way I am not pouting. I just found the whole thing slight surreal and wanted to open up a discussion about it to see how others feel. I actually cancelled or rescheduled other rehearsals so that I could make to their rehearsals since I believed that they wanted to get out and start making money ASAP.
This appears to be a charged issue. I for one have enjoyed reading the various opinions expressed. I will stick to my guns and not play for free when doing cover material unless it is a benefit that WE believe in as a band.
Jimi
As a side note the rehearsal hall was one of the nastiest places I have ever been and I have been in a few.
The demo has not been cut so there is no money due. We had discussed cutting a Demo and I voiced the opinion that I find studio demos for cover bands silly. The club owners are usually savvy enough to know that a band might sound great in the studio and not be able to play their way out of a wet paper bag so I didnt really want to participate in that venture. I would rather do a good live recording to show what we would sound like in a real world setting.
The amp was a convenience thing. They said it was no big deal to us theirs as it saved me having to drag mine up and down the stairs all the time for rehearsals. Right now I only have one amp and play several times a week with other people. Oh by the way I had back surgery April 30th so any thing I can do to keep from doing more damage is a good thing, they knew this also. Had I known they would hold that against me, I would have continued to drag my amp up and down the rehearsal halls stairs.
SO I dont see where they paid my way for months. I see where I would owe them for one month rent and that was to be taken out of my pay once we started gigging.
I agree that they are very nice guys. I was very up front about this being a working band and had shared my opinion of doing gigs for free with them on more than one occasion. I don't think they communicated very well on any of the financial decisions concerning the band.
Oh By the way I am not pouting. I just found the whole thing slight surreal and wanted to open up a discussion about it to see how others feel. I actually cancelled or rescheduled other rehearsals so that I could make to their rehearsals since I believed that they wanted to get out and start making money ASAP.
This appears to be a charged issue. I for one have enjoyed reading the various opinions expressed. I will stick to my guns and not play for free when doing cover material unless it is a benefit that WE believe in as a band.
Jimi
If they feel they are getting a fair exchange (whether that be in food/drink, exposure, experience, etc.) - pretty smart. If they feel they aren't getting what they're worth - pretty dumb. It takes two people to make a deal, and as long as both feel they're benefiting from it, both sides are getting a good deal.
But if one understands capitalism AND has the goods one can do like THE SHAKES did this weekend and charge Coors Light $400.00 an hour. We really played the 3 hrs for free...
"It's a bands job to show a venue that they are worth what they charge..." So if they charge nothing , they are worth...LESS... Wow. Worthless.
Quite possibly... or they feel like their worth is equivalent to whatever other non-monetary renumeration they received. They might be right, they might be wrong - but only they can determine whether they are getting fair value for their work.
What a nice feeling that must be. Musicians/bands need to look out for other musicians/bands 'cause we know where SOME venues stand. Do your part, Don't Be Worthless!!!
This idea that music is (or should be) different from every other business endeavor is silly. Should GM look out for Toyota? Should Home Depot look out for Lowes?
--
aborgman
Nope - the problem is that the charging band either can't make enough EXTRA money for the venue over the free band, or can't show to the venue that they can. If the that $100 per man band can't bring in more than $100 per man in extra profit to the venue they SHOULDN'T get paid it.
Both the venue and the band decided it was a beneficial transaction to engage in - who am I to determine "value" for someone else?
Then the venue owner is stupid to pay for a band. Why increase expenses for no increase in profit?
If you can't taste the difference between hamburger and Filet Mignon, do you buy Filet Mignon to help out the cattle farmers?
If the bar patrons can't taste the difference between Grey Goose and swill, do you buy the Grey Goose to help out the local liquor distributor?
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aborgman
How much did your band get paid last gig aborgman? How long did you play? How far did you travel? What is the total cost of your band's equipment?
