If you want to whinge about the law of diminishing returns versus utility, my wife has a handbag that is worth more than the Emporer that the OP thinks is too expensive. It doesn't even fit that much stuff in it! 
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If i had $8499...
- Thread starter gustobassman
- Start date
Pretty close..or that b/c a certain pixie has spread his dust on a product they can gouge people....
Fodera threads are predictable. This one didn't actually start out as "are Fodera's overpriced?" or "Foderas ARE overpriced" but with the OP complaining that one particular Fodera seemed a little light on the bling to command it's price tag.
Nevertheless, here we are covering the same ground regardless.
Do people really believe that Fodera's prices are a reflection of their desire to "gouge" people?
Just an educated guess on my part, but I'd guess that on average most Fodera customers take home more money each year than Vinny Fodera does.
In any business pricing on your product(s) has to be such that (1) it covers the materials used (2) it pays for your overhead (3) it provides a living/competitive wage for yourself and your employees and (4) hopefully provides a small amount of operating profit to grow the business or simply survive tough times. And of course must be at a point which the market will bear.
Of the four, I assume overhead and wages are where Fodera's pricing primarily comes from.
They have a shop in Brooklyn and a relatively large staff for a boutique bass builder. And their location is the biggest part of the equation. Fodera (and Sadowsky for that matter) could both move to somewhere much cheaper and lower their prices and/or make a lot more profit. So why don't they?
Because they are in one of the world's hubs for professional musicians. They get what I only assume they consider to be invaluable feedback from gigging musicians, some considered to be among the best in the world. So they pay a huge premium for their base of operations and that premium must be passed on to the products for them to remain viable.
Why do people think Victor Wooten, Anthony Jackson, Janek Gwizdala, Matt Garrison, etc play Foderas? They aren't getting paid other than with instruments or discounts on instruments so where's the motivation unless they think it's the best tool for the job? And I'd argue that having top shelf customers and their opinions helps Fodera improve their instruments.
I don't see pixie dust. I see basic economics. They have high costs and put out a very high quality and in demand product which has been tweaked by their years of experience and interaction with talented artists and the result is something that costs a substantial amount of money.
I don't own a Fodera. For the same money as something like a Matt Garrison signature I own (or will own when the last two are finished) five basses from Chris Stambaugh and Alan Cringean (ACG). That's my preference, but I certainly wouldn't begrudge the person that would rather have the Fodera.
I love my basses but they aren't Foderas. They are made by talented luthiers in one man shops with much lower overhead in rural New Hampshire and Moffat, Scotland. They don't have Vinny and Joey's experience, their level of feedback from working pros or their impressive client list. And because of that they don't have their price tag either.
Some people feel those things are worth a premium, and for them they absolutely are. Others want to compare instruments based solely on component cost as if that is valid for any type of product.
Why pay $40 for filet mignon at a steakhouse? You can get a Whopper for 99 cents and they are both made from cow.
There are diminishing returns for everything. Whether paying for a luxury item is worth it to you is something only you can answer. But trying to tell someone that DOES think it's worth it that it really isn't is just foolish.
I'm wondering how many rock musician or funk musician use Fodera or other high end product like that ? Or is it something that interess more the jazz crowd ? Because when you look up the artist page, they are all in the jazz or jazz fusion camp, exploring and pushing boundaries.
I'm also wondering if your habilities just doesn't get that high dollard price tag ? Let me explain ... when I started, you could have give me a 50 bass or a 10 000 bass ... it wouldn't make much difference. Then after 4 years I could see how a 500$ bass played better than the 50$ bass because I'm better than I was 4 years ago. etc.
So I think a guy like Victor Wooten, who went far into technic and knowledge of music on bass, he needs a bass that will offer high performance level. While I'm sure he could be amazing on a SX, I'm sure he will have to fight with the bass to let him be at his best.
I'm also wondering if your habilities just doesn't get that high dollard price tag ? Let me explain ... when I started, you could have give me a 50 bass or a 10 000 bass ... it wouldn't make much difference. Then after 4 years I could see how a 500$ bass played better than the 50$ bass because I'm better than I was 4 years ago. etc.
So I think a guy like Victor Wooten, who went far into technic and knowledge of music on bass, he needs a bass that will offer high performance level. While I'm sure he could be amazing on a SX, I'm sure he will have to fight with the bass to let him be at his best.
If you want to whinge about the law of diminishing returns versus utility, my wife has a handbag that is worth more than the Emporer that the OP thinks is too expensive. It doesn't even fit that much stuff in it!
You can trade it for a Fodera, something useful.
You can trade it for a Fodera, something useful.
...and I would be single at the same time.
I'd argue that my $800 Spector Rebop 5 & my $500 MIM Fender P get as much love as your 2 Foderas, for a MUCH lower investment. Heck, you can even throw in the cost of my bridge & pick-up replacements, custom pick guard, and soon-to-be custom candy apple burst paint job on my P-bass.
Do Mercedes owners claim that the workers care, really care about the cars? More than Suzuki employees? Do the Mercedes employees put "love" into their cars? Do they hug their cars goodbye and hope the owners send the corporation photos of the cars years down the road??
I think you'd be surprised. There are a LOT of old Benzes on the road that people are VERY sentimental about.
Are Mercedes boutique cars, where the owner of the company builds them by hand with a small group of people?
There are a lot of old Ramblers on the road people are sentimental about, too. Back on point, I'm positive that Daimler doesn't really care about Mercedes owners who's cars are out of warranty.
They charge boutique prices. And PRICE is what this is all about.
$145,000
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$28,000
As a mass production car company, Daimler is not even a close comparison. At 16,000 employees, it's anything but a personal affair when it comes to their cars - far less personal than Fender (which appears to be somewhere in the ballpark of 1,000 employees).
How many people does Fodera Guitars employ?
You think. Hahaha! No they don't. I will tell you for an absolute fact that were it not for car clubs, those old cars would be scrap.
Price may have been what started this thread, but NOT what this argument (at least involving you) has been about - it's been an argument about some emotional or personal connection that a builder has with his individual work.
