If i had $8499...

[Just Thumpin']

I honestly believe that in many instances, this is the kind of thing that is a disincentive to buy our instruments rather than something people flock to.

In my own case, I wanted a Fodera for many years before I actually bought one. NOT because of economics, but instead because I did not feel that my playing was "worthy" of the brand's reputation. I do not believe that I am (or was) alone in feeling this way...

Jason

Another thought is that a Fodera becomes also a status symbol for bassists and interested musicians. But that should IMHO be no reason to buy an instrument.

 

[pringlw]

I don't think the fans of boutique basses are arguing that they're basically expensive status symbols; functionally inferior to their mass-produced counterparts; and appeal largely to hair-chested cheeseballs with more money than taste Instead, let's say Patek Philippe and Porsche

I liked where you were going but the Porsche and PP argument still falls into your trap - a PP still doesn't *really* tell time better than a Timex, even though it's a work of art and a labor of love.

The better analogy for me is comparing things across the *same* high performance dimension - say comparing race cars to race cars, or high performance cycles, skis, etc.

Here's my point; if you buy a $50 road bike and take it to a race, you are probably going to lose no matter how skilled you are. As you spend more and more money the performance gets better in a fairly linear relationship to money - up to a certain point - lets say, around $2000. At that point, you have a good bike that performs really well.

However, as you push for more incremental improvements, the price tag starts to jump fast - even though the performance aspect improves more slowly. The difference in quality and performance between a $4000 bike and a $2000 bike is much smaller than the difference between the $2000 bike and the $50 bike. The difference between a $10,000 bike and a $4,000 bike is even smaller.

So I guess a $10,000 or $20,000 bike isn't worth it? Well.... Hold the phone. If you are at a level where every little bit of performance matters, and you are competing for a big prize - well then yeah, it's probably worth it. You accept the fundamental truth that to squeeze that extra performance out of the device starts to cost a lot, but it's worth it to you to pay up.

Sure, instruments aren't used in a race with a definite winner and loser - but the point is this:

For those that Foderas speak to, they remain expensive, but those folks have found that that's the price they must pay for all the little details and craftsmanship and attention that makes the instrument completely perfect for their needs.

If those aren't the things you are willing to put such a high price tag onto for a bass, peace. I would never buy a $10,000 bike or $10,000 skis or etc, etc, etc. But I would also never second guess someone that did. That person is someone who has said; "for this one thing in my life I will accept no compromise and I will buy the one that speaks to me regardless of the price because in this corner of my life its simply worth it to me".

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[sigmafloyd]

While we're arguing about this a band of 16 year olds are using their squiers and epiphones to write the next big hits that most of us will have to cover at bar gigs

 

[LightGroove]

No..not the Ying Yang basses .

I get a snicker that there "affordable" line comes in at $5200

No..my profile is not up to date. Everything Roscoe Ive bought has been used in the $2000 range. I ended up selling as my previous posts state, I dont do this enough to justify the investment. Again..Im at a different place musically, financially, etc. Also Im not a fanboy if that's where your leaning toward.

This is purely supply and demand...they have a commodity and are treating it as such...I will say they have a great marketing and sales strategy.. its working for them. I tend to avoid companies with this strategy...just a personal thing.

I get not everyone has my philisophy nor do I expect them to. I get companies have the right to what they want with what they want. Free enterprise...

but I dont get the continued rationalization that there is some extra magic or mojo or whatever that can justify such a price and or price difference. Of course you want to tell yourself its worth it..who would want to feel crazy for dropping that kind of coin?

 

[Dr. Cheese]

And then there's reality. No offense.


I remember seeing Al Caldwell playing his nine string Conklin with Vanessa Williams. No pyrotechniques, just the solid playing the gig called for.

A friend bought one of Al's basses, a semihollow nine and stopped by a local store. I was playing it and a guy asked "what do you do with all of those strings?".

So I played "My Girl".

It's a bass... you do whatever you do. There is nothing to prove in whatever bass you're holding. If it's pretty, you don't have to play pretty. If it's expensive, you don't have to put on a show. And if it has a lot of strings you don't have to use every one on every song.


If someone is disappointed because of some unfounded expectation of others... they'll live.


And yeah, I do gig mainly with $5k+ basses on a regular basis and I do whatever the gig calls for, just like on any other bass I own. Ultimately they're tools... really, really nice tools.

Common sense ain't all that common. Drive your Mercedes S Class to work or drive your used budget Kia to work. Peel an apple with a Swiss army knife, peel your apple with a limited edition Microtech. They are all tools.

 

[Jared Lash]

While we're arguing about this a band of 16 year olds are using their laptops and iPads to write the next big hits that most of us will have to cover at bar gigs

fixed.

 

[Baird6869]

Functionally, a Timex tells better time than a Cartier; and a Kia is far more practical for 99.9% of all driving tasks than a Lamborghini. Besides, Cartiers are amongst the gaudiest of all watches and Lamborghinis are the douchiest of all sportscars. True enthusiasts stay far, far away from either brand.

I don't think the fans of boutique basses are arguing that they're basically expensive status symbols; functionally inferior to their mass-produced counterparts; and appeal largely to hair-chested cheeseballs with more money than taste Instead, let's say Patek Philippe and Porsche

Ok, you win. Let's agree that a Lamborghini is useless unless you drive on the Autobahn.... and one can actually drive in 4th or 5th gear on a North American highway in a Porsche. A gold Cartier IS a douchbag watch for most, i agree. Also, my Rolex Submariner lost 10 minutes a week, so I traded it in for an Omega. A Patek is a much metter example than Cartier OR Rolex.

 

[ChuckTrucks]

I have a Tag Heuer watch what kind of bass is it like?

A Fender AM Std Jazz?

If so then Im spending the right amount on watches and basses.

 

[ChuckTrucks]

I liked where you were going but the Porsche and PP argument still falls into your trap - a PP still doesn't *really* tell time better than a Timex, even though it's a work of art and a labor of love.

Swiss quartz is the best in the world and last I checked Timex doesnt use it.

Actually Im wrong, I think they do.

They also have intelligent quartz.

I suck.

 

[Baird6869]

Here's a question.....

Who is crazier, someone like myself that owns 7 or 8 basses all worth in the $2000 range each or someone that owns two $8500 Foderas?

I own many great basses (so do MANY of the TBers responding to this thread) but they obviously can't all be played on every gig or rehearsal. Two Foderas (or high end Smiths, Ritters, Alembecs, etc.) would get a lot more love for similar $$$.

Just curious....

 

[LightGroove]

I liked where you were going but the Porsche and PP argument still falls into your trap - a PP still doesn't *really* tell time better than a Timex, even though it's a work of art and a labor of love.

The better analogy for me is comparing things across the *same* high performance dimension - say comparing race cars to race cars, or high performance cycles, skis, etc.

Here's my point; if you buy a $50 road bike and take it to a race, you are probably going to lose no matter how skilled you are. As you spend more and more money the performance gets better in a fairly linear relationship to money - up to a certain point - lets say, around $2000. At that point, you have a good bike that performs really well.

However, as you push for more incremental improvements, the price tag starts to jump fast - even though the performance aspect improves more slowly. The difference in quality and performance between a $4000 bike and a $2000 bike is much smaller than the difference between the $2000 bike and the $50 bike. The difference between a $10,000 bike and a $4,000 bike is even smaller.

So I guess a $10,000 or $20,000 bike isn't worth it? Well.... Hold the phone. If you are at a level where every little bit of performance matters, and you are competing for a big prize - well then yeah, it's probably worth it. You accept the fundamental truth that to squeeze that extra performance out of the device starts to cost a lot, but it's worth it to you to pay up.

Sure, instruments aren't used in a race with a definite winner and loser - but the point is this:

For those that Foderas speak to, they remain expensive, but those folks have found that that's the price they must pay for all the little details and craftsmanship and attention that makes the instrument completely perfect for their needs.

If those aren't the things you are willing to put such a high price tag onto for a bass, peace. I would never buy a $10,000 bike or $10,000 skis or etc, etc, etc. But I would also never second guess someone that did. That person is someone who has said; "for this one thing in my life I will accept no compromise and I will buy the one that speaks to me regardless of the price because in this corner of my life its simply worth it to me".

Nothing wrong with that.

Well said...

I personally dont have an issue with folks spending this kind of money ..I dont think they are stupid or anything along those lines...Im sure a large majority that do spend it truly feel its justified ... maybe Ill get to a place in my playing where Ill see it this way... Right now I personally think its too much when you can get pretty damn close for a WHOLE lot less.. that last little bit isnt justifiable.

 

[Marlat]

Well said...

I personally dont have an issue with folks spending this kind of money ..I dont think they are stupid or anything along those lines...Im sure a large majority that do spend it truly feel its justified ... maybe Ill get to a place in my playing where Ill see it this way... Right now I personally think its too much when you can get pretty damn close for a WHOLE lot less.. that last little bit isnt justifiable.

You can get pretty damn close for a whole lot less, but if you want a Fodera the price of entry is the price of entry. Same with any other bass (at any price point) out there. Its all relative. You can probably get pretty damn close to a $1500 bass with a $400 bass. Its all a matter of relativity and sounds like your financial position dictates that a certain difference is too much. Its a good thing that you don't want a Fodera because you can't get one for the amount you think it reasonable, no matter how close you might be able to get with something else.

 

[nickbass79]

Personal preference fuels the justification to purchase any product. So, nobody should be ridiculed or belittled for what they want to spend their own money on.

 

[kenfxj]

It would be a cold day in hell before I'd pay $8500 for a bass. It'd be a cold day in hell before I'd pay $8500 for two basses. I understand that it's a "better" bass than my MIA Fenders but it ain't 7300 dollars better.

But it's your money of course. Do with it as you please.

 

[GHOST AT]

Here's a question.....

Who is crazier, someone like myself that owns 7 or 8 basses all worth in the $2000 range each or someone that owns two $8500 Foderas?

I own many great basses (so do MANY of the TBers responding to this thread) but they obviously can't all be played on every gig or rehearsal. Two Foderas (or high end Smiths, Ritters, Alembics, etc.) would get a lot more love for similar $$$.

Just curious....

I would much rather have two really high end basses and play the hell out of them ,rather than have six other basses . If i have a bass that sits around not being played, I choose to sell it. I had a Lakland great bass, we just did not hit it off .I could have kept it ,but I sold it to a gospel player who loves it. Nothing worse than having a bass that never gets out of its case IMO. If you own 7 or 8 basses and they see action on a regular basis great.

 

[Roy Vogt]

It would be a cold day in hell before I'd pay $8500 for a bass. It'd be a cold day in hell before I'd pay $8500 for two basses.

Again, if anyone on the BG side of Talkbass ventures over to the DB side you'll find that $8500 is "chump change" when buying a carved Double Bass of Orchestral quality. It's a different world once you go Vertical.....

 

[DigitalMan]

Again, if anyone on the BG side of Talkbass ventures over to the DB side you'll find that $8500 is "chump change" when buying a carved Double Bass of Orchestral quality. It's a different world once you go Vertical.....

What's the best DB for metal?

 

[jim777]

I have a Tag Heuer watch what kind of bass is it like?

A Fender AM Std Jazz?

If so then Im spending the right amount on watches and basses.

I'm fairly certain from my uber watch-geek days that TAG doesn't actually make their own movements, they buy them from ETA and just stamp their names on them, like a ton of other watch companies do. With a TAG you are really buying the case, the face, the bracelet, and of course, the TAG Heuer name Functionally, you can get the same mechanism in a cheaper watch if you don't require the name and know the name of the movement, like 'Valjoux 7750' for example.

 

[Roy Vogt]

What's the best DB for metal?

Probably one of the Aluminum ones that Ray Brown used to drag home from school by the neck when he was a kid!

 

[MostlyBass]

Again, if anyone on the BG side of Talkbass ventures over to the DB side you'll find that $8500 is "chump change" when buying a carved Double Bass of Orchestral quality. It's a different world once you go Vertical.....

Tell me about it! I was trying to justify spending over 1k on an electric (which I did with my Carvin) and then I thought, "Well, I spend that much on my bow!"