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Im Just No Gettin The Boutique Thing

I think it's foolish to say that physical parts on the bass don't affect the tone because basic physics would disprove that claim. Hell, even your body affects the tone, and I don't mean "your fingers" (well, they do, obviously), I mean your friggin' stomach.

However, what a lot of people fail to mention on this topic is that a lot of wood/parts/etc sounds... different. Not necessarily better or worse in a lot of cases. Many tonal problems can be amended by simple EQing as long as the guitar itself doesn't have a serious defect (more on this later), and frequency response changes are uniform enough (even if we know they aren't due to different body shapes and weight distribution), but for practical purposes, this is often enough, which is why you can make a bunch of useful tones out of a single quality DI.

Granted, you can't make a jazz bass bridge pickup sound out of a P bass, because frequency response changes aren't uniform across the notes/fret positions, but you can make one P bass sound like another P bass, as long as the frequency response caught by pickups is wide enough so that you have something to work with.

The only time wood REALLY plays into the picture is when bass design/joints/wood just have a defect. At that point it's obvious something is amiss and problems like that have no place on expensive instruments, but can sometimes be fixed on cheaper ones. My SX originally had a really flimsy neck/body joint which caused a very dampened, thin tone, and when that was fixed, it started singing.

That cardboard guitar was put together so well that it didn't matter it was cardboard dipped in resin.

So, in essence, construction & material integrity > tonewood, even though the material matters, whether the piece of wood, plastic, metal or even stone has a defect and whether it fits the particular instrument, is more important than what the genus is called and what alterations in frequency response (that are fairly uniform) it brings :)
 
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Having bought played and sold many “boutique” basses over the years a realization struck me. In most cases you can easily buy any of the components off the shelf, that all the boutique builder names use. Also they often sub out much of the woodwork, so in essence become assemblers.

Well I have a nice Fender American Deluxe Jazz. Nice quality, plays nice but the pups/preamp are lacking, So after researching the many boutique component options I decided to go with Fralin/Audere. So now I have a good quality bass the sounds and plays as good as any. Sure there are no swirls or stripes in the wood, or exclusive nameplate, but it does all I need and more, at a fraction of the cost with quality upgraded where its need. so why would I want to by something I can frame on the wall thats not going to be any improvement where it counts?

Ultimately Ive learned that its methodical consistent practice and musical growth that wins above all else. All the rest (instrument, rig etc) are just tools to facilitate your musical expresion.
I’ve stopped buying super expensive basses. The most expensive bass I currently own is my Dingwall NG2. It’s an import dingwall that cost me about the same as A new stingray 5. Plays nice and sounds amazing. I think the lesson I learned over the years is that while I can spend more money on more expensive basses, the amount of improvement in quality gets smaller and smaller as you go beyond that $1,500- $2k range. I feel my money is better spent in other ways. Promoting my band, buying other gear, replacing strings on my roundwound string basses more often, recording at nice studios, making music videos. Also I don’t think the PA systems at the majority of the venues we play are good enough to notice what becomes small improvements beyond what you can get out of a $2k bass.
 
As a matter of fact the paper strat mentioned above sounds a lot like an actual strat.

"A lot like" true, especially distorted, with a crapload of effects.
A Strat is not a refined instrument, I did not see or hear ANY sustained notes, a clean tone.
"Works" it DRAMATICALLY different than works well.
I'd wager that the success would be much diminished, were this experiment conducted with a bass guitar.
I'd also expect the results to be lackluster if this were conducted on a Les Paul.
 
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I played an acrylic-bodied bass guitar a few years ago. It sounded great. The difference between that and the cardboard guitar is that acrylic will have a much more consistent tone with less dips and resonances due to density distribution. The guitar also sustained forever, and if you heard it on a recording, "oh, it must be one of those acrylic guitars!" would never be a thing that comes to your mind, and you'd probably just think it's a good sounding guitar.
 
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"A lot like" true, especially distorted, with a crapload of effects.
A Strat is not a refined instrument, I did not see or hear ANY sustained notes, a clean tone.
"Works" it DRAMATICALLY different than works well.
I'd wager that the success would be much diminished, were this experiment conducted with a bass guitar.
I'd also expect the results to be lackluster if this were conducted on a Les Paul.
I guess that we are just discussing on the amount of tone change given by everything apart from pickup and its position.

I'll be eager to read a paper on the subject. Anybody could suggest any source?
 
I played an acrylic-bodied bass guitar a few years ago. It sounded great. The difference between that and the cardboard guitar is that acrylic will have a much more consistent tone with less dips and resonances due to density distribution. The guitar also sustained forever, and if you heard it on a recording, "oh, it must be one of those acrylic guitars!" would never be a thing that comes to your mind, and you'd probably just think it's a good sounding guitar.
I used to own a Dan Armstrong :) fretless.
 
At the current level of Fodera hype ... ehm ... should Fodera announce the imminent marketing of a line of basses which body is made of acrylic resin, there will be crowds of people ready to start singing the praises of this material and of how much a good acrylic can compare to a solid wood of given properties ... bass will always cost 7k ... people will start wondering why but there will always be people ready to start telling us that Fodera's acrylic is special for this and that reason, that moreover the highly skilled level of their workmanship requires more than adequate repayment etc...
In the end they will manage to sell us a piece of plastics for 7k ... this would be a super bargain for them ... maybe they should seriously start thinking about such a move ... the time may be the right one :D:D:D
 
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At the current level of Fodera hype ... ehm ... should Fodera announce the imminent marketing of a line of basses which body is made of acrylic resin, there will be crowds of people ready to start singing the praises of this material and of how much a good acrylic can compare to a solid wood of given properties ... bass will always cost 7k ... people will start wondering why but there will always be people ready to start telling us that Fodera's acrylic is special for this and that reason, that moreover the highly skilled level of their workmanship requires more than adequate repayment etc...
In the end they will manage to sell us a piece of plastics for 7k ... this would be a super bargain for them ... maybe they should seriously start thinking about such a move ... the time may be the right one :D:D:D

You should be working for Martin my friend!

Martin Classical Guitar | C.F. Martin & Co.

Long life to Formica! (Cough cough HPL)

By the way I've listened to the suggested videos and while I agree that there exists a difference I still say that this difference is not that great and you really need to pay a lot of attention to distinguish two different guitars in a calm environment with everybody picking in the same position.

As I've mentioned before wood is a part of the equation but I guess its impact is not so big. Surely we can't say that the electric bass is an acoustic instrument.
 
You should be working for Martin my friend!

Martin Classical Guitar | C.F. Martin & Co.

Long life to Formica! (Cough cough HPL)

By the way I've listened to the suggested videos and while I agree that there exists a difference I still say that this difference is not that great and you really need to pay a lot of attention to distinguish two different guitars in a calm environment with everybody picking in the same position.

As I've mentioned before wood is a part of the equation but I guess its impact is not so big. Surely we can't say that the electric bass is an acoustic instrument.
As stated, I agree !
 
Yes I know that Marcus had purchased a Fodera lately, likely to record what Fodera, like Ken Smith, Tobias, MTD etc. have been designed to master, but, please, we all know that what made him what he is it’s another timbre, a trademark timbre that basses like those in the list in my opinion will never manage to establish, also because their price limit their diffusion to such an extent that it will take a significant time to have a sufficient number of tunes recorded with a distinctive tone, which could be associated to their use ... this of course doesn’t apply IMO to Alembic basses which were the first introduced on the market in the early seventies with the manufacturers working side-by-side with the great musicians of that period, in which rock and jazz were beginning to marry bringing to the creation of a bass with unique tonal options, sweet and rude at the same time but with life into it ... I’m under the impression that sophisticated ladies like Fodera do actually lack some blood ... take it or not ... this is my frank opinion :bassist:

I mentioned Marcus, who's had a Fodera for at least ten years, because his bass doesn't sound like a guitar. Apparently you've never heard that either.

I own(ed) a pair of 78 Jazzes. My Emperor bolt-on 5 sounds like a 5 string version of my Fenders. So you're lack of exposure lead you to an erroneous conclusion.

Sophisticated ladies lol
:D
 
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Phisto you know that when I watched this video from Scott I guessed the order of the basses rightly ? Know why ? Two reasons:

1) Bass 1 has got a more highs and high-mids oriented sound typical of single coil pickups.
2) Bass 1 is characterised by the typical noise the strings make when grazing some of the frets, notwithstanding any good setup, which is not the case a Fodera where you pay for the bass being impeccable from this point of view.

This should make the difference in boutique basses ... the luthiery level should be such as to leave you breathless for the effortlessless needed to play this SOB of instrument we all like the tone of, after having tried almost all mass-produced ones ... only in this case and with the bass having a personal, characteristic tone I may justify spending 7k in a bass ...
 
I'm gigging this: (and digging it)
Ibanez SR 375f (sub 300 new)
Soft maple body.
Walnut striped hard maple neck, Jatoba fingerboard.
Cintered crap metal bridge.
3 band eq that needs to be replaced (harsh, noisy)
A crummy nut that was immediately replaced.
A fingerboard that needed to be planed.
Tuners that work, but are wonky.
Neck edges that were super sharp, rounded them.
The "satin" finish on the back of the neck was just a last coat spray, and still had sanding marks showing, was an uneven coat, so a bit of block sanding cured that.
I dig it it sounds pretty good.
So after I spend another 160 on a decent preamp I'll have about 6 hours and 500 in.
Could have bought a Used Warwick for about the same coin, but is far and away better playing and sounding than the VM Squier Jazz fretless.



IMG_20180610_105631280_HDR.jpg
 
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I always find it interesting to see how people’s tastes change over time. I’ve played for a little over 20 years and in that time:
- initially I liked only jazz type basses with 3 band pre-amps (my fave was a Mike Lull)
- then I became a passive only jazz bass guy
- I then switched to P-Basses (which I swore would never happen), but they had to be MIA (fave was a P-Select)
- I now own a 2002 CIJ PB62-70 with upgraded electronics and pickups

Oddly my CIJ is my favorite of the 20 something I’ve had. It’s not close to being the most expensive (Lull) or the prettiest (P-Select), but boy does it play and sound like a dream.
 
Yes, I've put it wrongly. Sorry for that.
I was just stating the trivial fact that pickups are not microphonic and ignore everything apart from metal string vibration and that all the components can only changes the nuances of the sound acting as a string damper or at least this is what I know for some basic guitar physics.
An acoustic instrument is totally different and I stand by saying that an electric bass is not an acoustic instrument.

As a matter of fact the paper strat mentioned above sounds a lot like an actual strat.

Can you hear your bass when you play it unplugged?

Mike Tobias designs his basses for particular tones before the electronics go in. And as usual some of the TB Experts say he's FOS. It's not like he's been building at a high level for forty years or anything.
;)
 
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I mentioned Marcus, who's had a Fodera for at least ten years, because his bass doesn't sound like a guitar. Apparently you've never heard that either.

I own(ed) a pair of 78 Jazzes. My Emperor bolt-on 5 sounds like a 5 string version of my Fenders. So you're lack of exposure lead you to an erroneous conclusion.

Sophisticated ladies lol
:D
Sophisticated ladies, yes and I repeat the concept Mr. Johnson as they are highly sophisticated instruments without too much balls in their tone IMO (opinions are opinions) hence the colourful definition ... people having invested in those instruments have to justify their investment somehow and I understand that ... Marcus had a Fodera from 2010? And what he did until that year ? ... mmmhhh ... nothing worth mentioning likely ...