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I'm so lost...

#102
Ye_olde_dragon said:
Just one question: Is there a reason you have them work out the scales in that order?
Click to expand...

Not really, other than it's deliberately not in any logical order. It's kind of easier conceptually (IMHO) to start with a natural note as the tonic, rather than a sharpened or flattened note.

edit: Upon further thought, did you mean the scales within the key of C major? I had just woken up when I made that post, so be polite if this is a totally stupid question.
Click to expand...

:)

No, I mean you should work the major scales out with those notes as the tonic.

So if you were starting from A, you'd be working out the key of A major...

A-w-B-w-C#-h-D-w-E-w-F#-w-G#-h-A

A major = 3 #s: F, C, G
G major = 1 #: F
C major = 0 #s/bs

etc.
 
#103
dlloyd said:
Not really, other than it's deliberately not in any logical order. It's kind of easier conceptually (IMHO) to start with a natural note as the tonic, rather than a sharpened or flattened note.



:)

No, I mean you should work the major scales out with those notes as the tonic.

So if you were starting from A, you'd be working out the key of A major...

A-w-B-w-C#-h-D-w-E-w-F#-w-G#-h-A

A major = 3 #s: F, C, G
G major = 1 #: F
C major = 0 #s/bs

etc.
Click to expand...

Okay, I thought that's what you meant at first and then I noticed the order was C, D, E, F, G, A, B and then started to think I had made a mistake.

Anyway, I'll get right on that.
 
#105
Ye_olde_dragon said:
The natural notes. I think this is right.

C - C, D, E, F, G, A, B

D - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#

E - E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#

F - F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E

G - G, A, B, C, D, E, F#

A - A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#

B - B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A#
Click to expand...


Yep, that's right... now put them in order of numbers of sharps and/or flats as I did above.

Edit: You might have some difficulty with the sharp notes.
 
#106
C - C, D, E, F, G, A, B 0 #s

G - G, A, B, C, D, E, F# 1 #s

D - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C# 2 #s

A - A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G# 3 #s

E - E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# 4 #s

B - B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A# 5 #s


Holy nuts! they're each a fifth away from each other. I'm guessing this has something to do with that elusive circle of fifths.
 
#107
Ye_olde_dragon said:
C - C, D, E, F, G, A, B 0 #s

G - G, A, B, C, D, E, F# 1 #s

D - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C# 2 #s

A - A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G# 3 #s

E - E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D# 4 #s

B - B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A# 5 #s


Holy nuts! they're each a fifth away from each other. I'm guessing this has something to do with that elusive circle of fifths.
Click to expand...

LOL!

Surprise, surprise!

It get's even crazier than that when you stick F major at the top, and list which sharps and flats are in each key...

F major: 1 b; B
C major: 0#s or bs
G major: 1 #; F
D major: 2 #s; F, C
A major: 3 #s; F, C, G
E major: 4 #s; F, C, G, D
B major: 5 #s; F, C, G, D, A
 
#109
Ye_olde_dragon said:
This really is crazy. I can see the pattern developing, I just haven't quite got the full scope of it yet. I'm going to start working on the scales for the accidentals.
Click to expand...

Just a quick correction... "accidental" is where you place a sharp, flat or natural before a note in a piece of music to denote it's straying away from the key indicated in the key signature. It's incorrect to apply that to all sharps and flats.
 
#116
What helped me when I was learning this stuff. Warning this is what worked for me, your milage may vary.

First for key signatures. BEADGCF This is the order of the flats to add to flat key signature. The last flat added is the fouth of the scale, so easy to check. Then take BEADGCF and reverse it FCGDAEB that is the order sharps are added to sharp keys. The last sharp added is the seventh of the the scale, so have a way of checking. Simple but has taken me a long way.

Then I whenever I had some time to myself like driving, or waiting for things I would drill myself on spelling chords. I started with major and minor triads in all twelve keys. Once I could spell any triad instantly, I started on Maj7, Min7, and 7th chords. Same drill myself till I could spell any chord instantly. Once I had that down then figuring out scales was easy I knew half the notes by know the related chord. Alter chords simple. Also to learn circle of fifths was a fringe benefit since I drilled myself that order. Just had to think if chord I spelled was a V what would it resolve down to. For me knowing how to spell chords fast made figuring out anything else simple.

As I said that is the process I used and worked for me. YMMV I made use of time that would normally be wasted. I think advantage I did it all in my head so it really stuck.
 
#117
steveb98 said:
What helped me when I was learning this stuff. Warning this is what worked for me, your milage may vary.

First for key signatures. BEADGCF This is the order of the flats to add to flat key signature. The last flat added is the fouth of the scale, so easy to check. Then take BEADGCF and reverse it FCGDAEB that is the order sharps are added to sharp keys. The last sharp added is the seventh of the the scale, so have a way of checking. Simple but has taken me a long way.

Then I whenever I had some time to myself like driving, or waiting for things I would drill myself on spelling chords. I started with major and minor triads in all twelve keys. Once I could spell any triad instantly, I started on Maj7, Min7, and 7th chords. Same drill myself till I could spell any chord instantly. Once I had that down then figuring out scales was easy I knew half the notes by know the related chord. Alter chords simple. Also to learn circle of fifths was a fringe benefit since I drilled myself that order. Just had to think if chord I spelled was a V what would it resolve down to. For me knowing how to spell chords fast made figuring out anything else simple.

As I said that is the process I used and worked for me. YMMV I made use of time that would normally be wasted. I think advantage I did it all in my head so it really stuck.
Click to expand...

Those are some really good ideas, thanks!
 
#118
steveb98 said:
What helped me when I was learning this stuff. Warning this is what worked for me, your milage may vary.

First for key signatures. BEADGCF This is the order of the flats to add to flat key signature. The last flat added is the fouth of the scale, so easy to check. Then take BEADGCF and reverse it FCGDAEB that is the order sharps are added to sharp keys. The last sharp added is the seventh of the the scale, so have a way of checking. Simple but has taken me a long way.

Then I whenever I had some time to myself like driving, or waiting for things I would drill myself on spelling chords. I started with major and minor triads in all twelve keys. Once I could spell any triad instantly, I started on Maj7, Min7, and 7th chords. Same drill myself till I could spell any chord instantly. Once I had that down then figuring out scales was easy I knew half the notes by know the related chord. Alter chords simple. Also to learn circle of fifths was a fringe benefit since I drilled myself that order. Just had to think if chord I spelled was a V what would it resolve down to. For me knowing how to spell chords fast made figuring out anything else simple.

As I said that is the process I used and worked for me. YMMV I made use of time that would normally be wasted. I think advantage I did it all in my head so it really stuck.
Click to expand...

Nice!!

--Paul Haley
 
#120
Ye_olde_dragon said:
Awesome. Okay, so here are our flattened notes:

Bb - Bb, C, D, Eb, F, G, A 2 bs

Eb - Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D 3 bs

Ab - Ab, Bb, C, Db, Eb, F, G 4 bs

Gb - Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, F 6 bs
Click to expand...

Of course, I missed out Db major, which has 5 bs

If we add them to the table we already made, we can see the pattern that Steve alluded to above...

Gb major: 6 bs; B, E, A, D, G, C
Db major: 5 bs; B, E, A, D, G
Ab major: 4 bs; B, E, A, D
Eb major: 3 bs; B, E, A
Bb major: 2 bs; B, E
F major: 1 b; B
C major: 0#s or bs
G major: 1 #; F
D major: 2 #s; F, C
A major: 3 #s; F, C, G
E major: 4 #s; F, C, G, D
B major: 5 #s; F, C, G, D, A

And see if you look down the table, how it repeats:

Gb, Db, Ab, Eb, Bb, F, C, G, D, A, E, B
 

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