We are going to IEM's soon. My concern is what may sound good to the audience/mains may not sound good in the IEM's. For example, if I play my maple neck p-bass= too bright?, roundwound= string noise? Will it be too harsh sounding in the mix or not? I am running thru a Hartke VXL Attack pedal that adds some tube warmth to a Radial JDI D.I. to the board. I have warm sounding a 74' jazz & 65' P-bass both w/rosewood boards. When everyone plays, does it make any difference no matter what bass I use? I know using flats are a possibilty to solve all these concerns, but some songs sound better w/roundwounds. Please give feedback those who are readily experienced in this matter so I can get a headstart.
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In Ear Monitors bass sound question.
- Thread starter Mad Tango
- Start date
Depending on what IEMs you get you may need to upgrade your Earpieces. You will hear yourself better so if your technique sucks you will hear the sloppiness.
I wish I could adapt to IEM but I've been unsuccessful so far. The main problem is I tend to sing flat when wearing them. That and I feel isolated from the rest of the room.
The advantages are obvious, but I've not been able to benefit from them.
The advantages are obvious, but I've not been able to benefit from them.
In-Ears are great, but in my experience, to use them to their fullest potential, it takes a LOT of work. Just yesterday in fact, I ran monitors (including 3 in-ear mixes, one being stereo) for a band.
First, crowd mics are good for getting rid of that "isolated, or trapped" feeling. Either that or maybe a little reverb. Also, having the IEM mixes run off a separate console helps (but is not totally necesssary).
If you're singing flat, then either you're not getting enough of your vocal, or you're not getting enough of the main "pitch" element in your music (either the guitar or your bass).
Also: headroom is your friend...be sure to avoid clipping the input of the IEM transmitter. And remember than often times, taking away something from a crowded mix will make everything else clearer and distinct (in other words, include only what you need). Remember, with all the open mics on a loud stage, there's bleed a plenty, so chances are you're getting, say, enough of the drums - you then don't (often times) need more kick, for example, which eats up a lot of headroom in the limited range of an IEM earpiece.
For bass, I sometimes find that maybe a VERY slight boost of 700 hz on the board EQ can help make it a tad more distinct.
IEM can work, but again, they take time getting used to. Sel-conciousness is one thing that takes some practice to get over. Good luck!
First, crowd mics are good for getting rid of that "isolated, or trapped" feeling. Either that or maybe a little reverb. Also, having the IEM mixes run off a separate console helps (but is not totally necesssary).
If you're singing flat, then either you're not getting enough of your vocal, or you're not getting enough of the main "pitch" element in your music (either the guitar or your bass).
Also: headroom is your friend...be sure to avoid clipping the input of the IEM transmitter. And remember than often times, taking away something from a crowded mix will make everything else clearer and distinct (in other words, include only what you need). Remember, with all the open mics on a loud stage, there's bleed a plenty, so chances are you're getting, say, enough of the drums - you then don't (often times) need more kick, for example, which eats up a lot of headroom in the limited range of an IEM earpiece.
For bass, I sometimes find that maybe a VERY slight boost of 700 hz on the board EQ can help make it a tad more distinct.
IEM can work, but again, they take time getting used to. Sel-conciousness is one thing that takes some practice to get over. Good luck!
I agree with what AndyLES said. I play bass and usually run sound for the bands I've been with. I use Shure PSm400 IEM's.
The down side of IEM's is that they require a lot of tweaking the mix levels to get the balance you need without over doing the in-ear volume. You can hurt your hearing fast with IEM's - be careful!
The upside is they can lower the spl your ears experience if done right.
First thing to know is that before you turn up your IEM mix you will hear the band as well as any other time you have earplugs in. Mine are foam, others use silicon and there are ear-molds which reduce spl even more.
What I do is add things to my IEM mix that are not clear enough - vocals first, my bass next, then usually keys, and then guitar. When I get these balanced against the ambient sound on stage (drums are ususally loud enough) I have to judge whether my overall earphone volume is too loud or not. That's the balance for me. If your ears are ringing after using IEM's they are too loud IMHO.
A 'room mic' mixed only into the IEM feed helps with the problem of feeling insulated from the audience. And it can somewhat help blend the total band into your mix.
FYI I have not really ever been wowed by the bass sound in the IEM. Usually it's pretty thin, even with dual driver earpieces. But they will help you hear your bass and I find them helpful. They just aren't a good reference for the bass tone that the audience might hear.
--Kevin
The down side of IEM's is that they require a lot of tweaking the mix levels to get the balance you need without over doing the in-ear volume. You can hurt your hearing fast with IEM's - be careful!
The upside is they can lower the spl your ears experience if done right.
First thing to know is that before you turn up your IEM mix you will hear the band as well as any other time you have earplugs in. Mine are foam, others use silicon and there are ear-molds which reduce spl even more.
What I do is add things to my IEM mix that are not clear enough - vocals first, my bass next, then usually keys, and then guitar. When I get these balanced against the ambient sound on stage (drums are ususally loud enough) I have to judge whether my overall earphone volume is too loud or not. That's the balance for me. If your ears are ringing after using IEM's they are too loud IMHO.
A 'room mic' mixed only into the IEM feed helps with the problem of feeling insulated from the audience. And it can somewhat help blend the total band into your mix.
FYI I have not really ever been wowed by the bass sound in the IEM. Usually it's pretty thin, even with dual driver earpieces. But they will help you hear your bass and I find them helpful. They just aren't a good reference for the bass tone that the audience might hear.
--Kevin
rockstarbassist
Inactive
It takes work, but once you get it dialed in, there's no way wedges and open-air amps even compete.
That being said, you can't skimp. I have Westone UM2 dual driver earphones, custom molded tips with -25db noise reduction, and through church play through an active Aviom system and live (in the past) played through a very expensive Sennheiser setup with our own mixing board for monitor purposes only.
Our soundguy was our 6th band member, so once we got it set you never had to touch it.
However I don't like having the FOH mix in my ears. It's way too busy and you don't have enough room to properly hear your bass and everything else.
I usually only have 4 to 5 things max in my ears: bass, lead guitar, lead vox, keys and sometimes drums, but depends on how loud they are onstage. Once you get more than that again you can't hear your main instrument or your own vox properly and it causes issues.
I love IEMs, but I wouldn't buy or run a setup where I didn't have a dedicated soundman who knew our system.
That being said, you can't skimp. I have Westone UM2 dual driver earphones, custom molded tips with -25db noise reduction, and through church play through an active Aviom system and live (in the past) played through a very expensive Sennheiser setup with our own mixing board for monitor purposes only.
Our soundguy was our 6th band member, so once we got it set you never had to touch it.
However I don't like having the FOH mix in my ears. It's way too busy and you don't have enough room to properly hear your bass and everything else.
I usually only have 4 to 5 things max in my ears: bass, lead guitar, lead vox, keys and sometimes drums, but depends on how loud they are onstage. Once you get more than that again you can't hear your main instrument or your own vox properly and it causes issues.
I love IEMs, but I wouldn't buy or run a setup where I didn't have a dedicated soundman who knew our system.
I'm using the M-Audio IE20-XB earbuds, right now (about $200). They are doing a good job of reproducing everything, but they're pretty big. They stick out of my ears kind of far. I think I like how they sound, though.
I ordered the newer Shure SCL4 on Musician's Friend for only $79.00. They are on sale and are on backorder because of the price & demand for them right now. They list for $300.00 and I hope they are of good enough sound quality. I like the suggestion of only only mixing/monitoring the instruments & vocals you need as to get a clearer overall sound to play along to live. By the way, I got a set of DR Black Beauties to help lower string noise and roundwound ring in the earphones. Thanks!
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Please reconsider this - and do some research. A sound engineer I used to work me showed me some research that has shown that's a great way to damage your ears.
rockstarbassist
Inactive
Agreed.
I know a lot of "pro" artists do this, but they're so drugged out most of the time anyway, it's not like they're really hearing anything, and they usually or always have their wedges on in addition.
This is about the worst thing you can do using IEMs.
My band is ampless/silent stage and everyone uses IEMs.
I am running a Shure PSM200 with SCL2's and the drummer uses an Audio Technica M3 setup. The primary problem he and I have is the thinness of his kick and my bass signals in the monitor mix. This despite our having complete control over headroom, signals from the rest of the band, etc. The three biggest variables are the constantly changing levels of the guitarists' and the keyboardist signals due to their various patches.
We had terrible problems getting our system set up properly until we had a decent tech come in to help us out, and even now I am still not quite happy (although part of my issue is my SCL2's). I concur that unless you have a sound tech who knows what he or she is doing with an ampless/IEM setup, you are probably going to be frustrated.
I am running a Shure PSM200 with SCL2's and the drummer uses an Audio Technica M3 setup. The primary problem he and I have is the thinness of his kick and my bass signals in the monitor mix. This despite our having complete control over headroom, signals from the rest of the band, etc. The three biggest variables are the constantly changing levels of the guitarists' and the keyboardist signals due to their various patches.
We had terrible problems getting our system set up properly until we had a decent tech come in to help us out, and even now I am still not quite happy (although part of my issue is my SCL2's). I concur that unless you have a sound tech who knows what he or she is doing with an ampless/IEM setup, you are probably going to be frustrated.
May I add, that the frustration level lowers considerably if you use one of the systems that allows you to control your own monitor/IEM mix, such the popular aviom or Hearback that we use.
Regarding the thin kick sound for the drummer - get him one of those "buttkicker" drum thrones and run his (hard wired?) IEM mix into a crossover. Send the low signal into the aformentioned kicker and BOOM! He'll feel his spine rattle each time his foot goes down, guaranteed. Touring pros do this all the time.
As far as changing level on the keys and guitar - run compressors on those channels.
Excellent advice on the buttkicker. In fact I just started looking into those for him last night after writing my post. It would help him a lot especially as he has some hearing loss. Maybe I could strap one to my leg too, lol. We all use wireless IEM systems but I would like for him and I to try wiring up to see if that improves our signal quality.
No joke, I think they even make a mat that works under the same principle for bassists/guitarists to stand on...
No joke, I think they even make a mat that works under the same principle for bassists/guitarists to stand on...
Yeah, so I've heard. I'm not having much luck getting info on them though. But it seems like that would be a good solution to that lack of thump, which my drummer and I need to sync up nice and tight.
My experience with IEM's was from playing the casino circiut in Reno. Most of the venues have a silent stage; no amps, and rubber drums. They have a dedicated mixing board for the IEM's that had at least a 6 way mix. I boosted the low mids on my bass channel pretty heavily at 250Hz. If the buds were seated well in my ears I got a nice full and round bass tone. My bass and my vocals were WAY out front in my mix. I loved it, and feel I had never sang better.
The only down side is not feeling any low end, even while standing on a butt-shaker platform. It just wasn't the same as feeling air moving from a bass rig.
IMHO the only way to get the full potential of IEM system is to have a dedicated monitor mixer that offers a separate mix for each set of buds.
The only down side is not feeling any low end, even while standing on a butt-shaker platform. It just wasn't the same as feeling air moving from a bass rig.
IMHO the only way to get the full potential of IEM system is to have a dedicated monitor mixer that offers a separate mix for each set of buds.
One thing that has been hinted at but not expressly stated is your headset. If you are using in-ears regularly, get custom fit, it will make a HUGE difference. And get them done in person- don't use the do it yourself kit. Can you tell I may have made a mistake...? I don't use IEM's now (though I wish I was able to, my band doesn't do it- my old band did). I bought a set of custom IEM's from a place on ebay (hearyourself.com was the site of the place that made them) and I did the molds myself (well, my wife did). They did not go deep enough, so when the headset was made it did not go deep enough in my ear canal. I was told by the audiologist that did my custom earplugs that if it is not aimed right severely affects the bass response. Someday I will get custom ones again. Right now, if I need a fake IEM, I have skull candy headphones which I can fit perfectly into my custom earplugs (sensaphonics).
