Infuriating Cover Songs

[Luckydog]

What a waste of the wrecking crew

I hate playing "Boots", and occasionally am asked to. For some reason my band members think it is the pinnacle of eclectic creativity to play those descending notes that lead into parts of the song. They even want me to use a prop like a comb or spoon or whatever is available to perform that "feat".

I did meet Nancy in Hollywood in 1968, along with Lee Greenwood, outside of the Whiskey. We actually shared a little smoke together. Allegedly.

 

[The Owl]

Tony Bennett's William Shatner moment

 

[silky smoove]

I've no doubt she's good but it's not human to have absolutely no trace of tremolo or vibrato in a vocal like that.

I'd disagree with that. That's barbershop quartet singing 101. Zero vibrato. Who knows, maybe she has a barbershop background

 

[LBS-bass]

I'd disagree with that. That's barbershop quartet singing 101. Zero vibrato. Who knows, maybe she has a barbershop background

LOL, well, ok. I'm not hearing any of the microtonal variations you'd normally hear in natural singing, but I'm not going to keep arguing. You hear it differently than I do, and we are also coming from different parts of the process. No worries; have a great evening!

 

[silky smoove]

LOL, well, ok. I'm not hearing any of the microtonal variations you'd normally hear in natural singing, but I'm not going to keep arguing. Just friendly discussion. You hear it differently than I do, and we are also coming from different parts of the process. No worries; have a great evening!

Definitely don't want to give the impression that I'm arguing. Just friendly discussion about how a vocal may have been processed. You're right in that we're hearing differently is all. Without an isolated multitrack it's all guess work. There's a lot of pop production on that track, so it's pretty tough to accurately pick out all of the nuances with some guesswork from either direction.

 

[JRA]

TalkBass, where we greatly enjoy listing the stuff we hate.

.

 

[two fingers]

please don't ever say that again.
Joni's a folk singer who wrote her own songs and played acoustic guitar (so was taylor swift, originally, so of course that is similar, not to mention neither had a great voice).

Taylor made it huge because someone figured out that her looks combined with her songwriting talent could be a perfect combination, and convinced her to become a pop princess. To her credit, she's a multi instrumentalist and prolific songwriter, unlike many pop princesses.

Joni made it huge because she was one of a very very small handful of musicians who wrote not only catchy songs that crossed over many genre boundaries, but also were political protest songs that managed to get airplay and get heard by politicians. To HER credit, she ventured into jazz and more advanced theory, put together a band that features Jaco on bass, and with that band created one of the most legendary live DVD concert videos ever made.

I can't think of any songwriting by Taylor Swift that qualifies as historically important, although I'm absolutely not diminishing her musical talent.

You mean "historically important" other than smash hit after smash hit? I could walk into 25 restaurants in any town in America and ask all of the patrons inside "regardless of age" if they've ever watched the Joni Mitchell concert that featured Jaco on bass and all but a very few would say "Who is Joni Mitchell?". Every single one of them would say "Who is Jaco?".

The vast majority of them could name at least three Taylor Swift songs and at least one of her boyfriends.

Joni Mitchell is of historical significance TO YOU. Taylor Swift is historical period.

I honestly don't have a problem with either of them. And, sure, Joni was more educated. But, in terms of history, her entire career didn't amount to Taylor's career (in terms of sales and cultural impact) didn't amount to what Taylor's has so far. And Taylor is only 30 years old.

 

[dkelley]

You mean "historically important" other than smash hit after smash hit? I could walk into 25 restaurants in any town in America and ask all of the patrons inside "regardless of age" if they've ever watched the Joni Mitchell concert that featured Jaco on bass and all but a very few would say "Who is Joni Mitchell?". Every single one of them would say "Who is Jaco?".

The vast majority of them could name at least three Taylor Swift songs and at least one of her boyfriends.

Joni Mitchell is of historical significance TO YOU. Taylor Swift is historical period.

I honestly don't have a problem with either of them. And, sure, Joni was more educated. But, in terms of history, her entire career didn't amount to Taylor's career (in terms of sales and cultural impact) didn't amount to what Taylor's has so far. And Taylor is only 30 years old.

So, smash hits, and being famous because of radio play and your looks on video and in awards ceremonies, are what make someone historically significant, rather than their influence on history and culture and impact in the world, and how they changed the world. Gotcha....

Joni is historically significant to the level that when I went to college studying music, taking music history as taught by a music history professor, Joni's significance in history was part of the teaching. Her impact on the music industry, the popularity of female singers veering into rock territory, the trick of writing radio-popular songs that had social and political messages which would remain relevant for many years.... those are some of the reasons why she is historically significant.

Joni's entire career compared to taylor's? Don't bother with finances... they're totally different generations, and Joni eschewed money and donated it all away frequently to help others. You can't compare on financial value. Taylor went mainstream and became the #1 artist repeatedly in her genre, so of course she is more popular with the average listener. I like her music very much, actually.

Joni was one of Prince's favorite artists - one of her albums he claimed to be the last entire album he loved. She is one of Bjork's favorite artists.

And you said she reminds you of Taylor... ah, the irony of that statement, considering it's the other way around.

Taylor has cited Joni as one of her main influences and idols. She was considered to play Joni in an upcoming biopic, although it didn't happen. Joni was asked for her opinion about Taylor playing her, and Joni said some sarcastic remark about Taylor trying to sing her music. She says she's never paid attention to Taylor's music (how hard it must be for someone like Taylor to hear that from her idol!). Whereas, Taylor named one of her own album's after one of Joni's albums, as a compliment with a similarity in album structure too.

Citing Joni as reminding you of Taylor is like looking at a beautiful mountainside with clouds over top and water and trees at the bottom, and saying "it looks almost like a painting".

Joni came first by several generations and is a big influence on Taylor and several generations of musicians to follow. Taylor came much later, and became a pop diva who I guarantee wouldn't be as successful if she didn't look like that. I'm not diminishing Taylor's talent.... but I do side with Joni that there's no way Taylor could sing many of Joni's tunes... they're far too challenging.

Anyhow, I'll leave it there.

I do tend to rant LoL

Cheers

 

[LBS-bass]

So, smash hits, and being famous because of radio play and your looks on video and in awards ceremonies, are what make someone historically significant, rather than their influence on history and culture and impact in the world, and how they changed the world. Gotcha....

Joni is historically significant to the level that when I went to college studying music, taking music history as taught by a music history professor, Joni's significance in history was part of the teaching. Her impact on the music industry, the popularity of female singers veering into rock territory, the trick of writing radio-popular songs that had social and political messages which would remain relevant for many years.... those are some of the reasons why she is historically significant.

Joni's entire career compared to taylor's? Don't bother with finances... they're totally different generations, and Joni eschewed money and donated it all away frequently to help others. You can't compare on financial value. Taylor went mainstream and became the #1 artist repeatedly in her genre, so of course she is more popular with the average listener. I like her music very much, actually.

Joni was one of Prince's favorite artists - one of her albums he claimed to be the last entire album he loved. She is one of Bjork's favorite artists.

And you said she reminds you of Taylor... ah, the irony of that statement, considering it's the other way around.

Taylor has cited Joni as one of her main influences and idols. She was considered to play Joni in an upcoming biopic, although it didn't happen. Joni was asked for her opinion about Taylor playing her, and Joni said some sarcastic remark about Taylor trying to sing her music. She says she's never paid attention to Taylor's music (how hard it must be for someone like Taylor to hear that from her idol!). Whereas, Taylor named one of her own album's after one of Joni's albums, as a compliment with a similarity in album structure too.

Citing Joni as reminding you of Taylor is like looking at a beautiful mountainside with clouds over top and water and trees at the bottom, and saying "it looks almost like a painting".

Joni came first by several generations and is a big influence on Taylor and several generations of musicians to follow. Taylor came much later, and became a pop diva who I guarantee wouldn't be as successful if she didn't look like that. I'm not diminishing Taylor's talent.... but I do side with Joni that there's no way Taylor could sing many of Joni's tunes... they're far too challenging.

Anyhow, I'll leave it there.

I do tend to rant LoL

Cheers

There are maybe half a dozen people I'd put on a list of true musical geniuses who were alive during my lifetime. Joni's on that list. I don't say those things lightly.

Those who don't appreciate her work probably don't care for her style of music, for whatever reason, even though her "style" moved through many genres throughout her recording career. Many just see her as one of those hippie folksingers.

That's ok. There are people I'm not that familiar with who I'm sure belong on that list, I just don't know their work well enough to put them there.

It annoys me a little to see her dismissed with the likes of Taylor Swift, but that's life.

 

[john_g]

I accept that this one might be largely personal, but Love Will Tear Us Apart meant so much to me when it came out. Not only (IMO) a classic, brilliant song of its era, but it also mirrored the breakdown of my own long term relationship that was happening at the time the song was in the chsrts. So I hated this when I first heard it, and still do:


Oh, and this. This should never have been allowed to happen:


[Edit] Oh wait. And this. I have no words for this:

Dear god that "My Generation" was definitely horrid. And so was the celine dion ACDC cover too. A couple bands ago, our female singer wanted to cover that cover...uggh so bad.

 

[john_g]

There are maybe half a dozen people I'd put on a list of true musical geniuses who were alive during my lifetime. Joni's on that list. I don't say those things lightly.

Those who don't appreciate her work probably don't care for her style of music, for whatever reason, even though her "style" moved through many genres throughout her recording career. Many just see her as one of those hippie folksingers.

That's ok. There are people I'm not that familiar with who I'm sure belong on that list, I just don't know their work well enough to put them there.

It annoys me a little to see her dismissed with the likes of Taylor Swift, but that's life.

Unfortunately I live in Taylor Swifts home town and have an 11 year old daughter, so I get a steady diet of her and uh...she...um...yeah, no. Joni's Hejira was awesome, just saying.

 

[LBS-bass]

Unfortunately I live in Taylor Swifts home town and have an 11 year old daughter, so I get a steady diet of her and uh...she...um...yeah, no. Joni's Hejira was awesome, just saying.

On my desert island list!

 

[bassman10096]

Max Bennett (look him up - great Jazz creds) played bass on the '74 live version of Joni's BYT. He and Tom Scott's whole band rocked that record something serious.

 

[zontar]

Sure there are covers I do not like--but do they infuriate me?
No

It's ok if they did something different--I might be annoyed, bored or even a little sickened.

but at least people are trying some different stuff.

 

[dune]

Well, it's no "Mambo No. 5"...

 

[Luckydog]

You mean "historically important" other than smash hit after smash hit? I could walk into 25 restaurants in any town in America and ask all of the patrons inside "regardless of age" if they've ever watched the Joni Mitchell concert that featured Jaco on bass and all but a very few would say "Who is Joni Mitchell?". Every single one of them would say "Who is Jaco?".

The vast majority of them could name at least three Taylor Swift songs and at least one of her boyfriends.

Joni Mitchell is of historical significance TO YOU. Taylor Swift is historical period.

I honestly don't have a problem with either of them. And, sure, Joni was more educated. But, in terms of history, her entire career didn't amount to Taylor's career (in terms of sales and cultural impact) didn't amount to what Taylor's has so far. And Taylor is only 30 years old.

I think this has a lot more to do with "current relevancy", rather than historical significance. Of course most people today will recognize Taylor Swift's body of work. I would expect that, and would also expect that half the people who knew of Joni's work are not currently living, and thus could not answer your questions that you posed to the patrons.

 

[two fingers]

I think this has a lot more to do with "current relevancy", rather than historical significance. Of course most people today will recognize Taylor Swift's body of work. I would expect that, and would also expect that half the people who knew of Joni's work are not currently living, and thus could not answer your questions that you posed to the patrons.

Many of the people who knew of Elvis' work or The Beatles' work are dead as well. But everyone in any given restaurant had heard of both of them. So they are "historically relevant" to me. 30 years from now, everyone will still he able to say they know of Taylor Swift.

 

[Luckydog]

Many of the people who knew of Elvis' work or The Beatles' work are dead as well. But everyone in any given restaurant had heard of both of them. So they are "historically relevant" to me. 30 years from now, everyone will still he able to say they know of Taylor Swift.

I don't believe that is a fair comparison. Elvis and the Beatles were in a whole different category of universal and long-term popularity than Taylor Swift. I would certainly expect their legacy to be much more widely known through successive generations (including the restaurant patrons). Time will tell, of course, but for now Elvis/The Beatles > Taylor Swift.

 

[two fingers]

I don't believe that is a fair comparison. Elvis and the Beatles were in a whole different category of universal and long-term popularity than Taylor Swift. I would certainly expect their legacy to be much more widely known through successive generations (including the restaurant patrons). Time will tell, of course, but for now Elvis/The Beatles > Taylor Swift.

The Beatles were together for 8 years. They are the second best selling artist of all time. But their songs/albums/tickets have been selling for FIFTY EIGHT YEARS. Taylor Swift is the 19th best selling artist of all time. And her first albums came out in late 2006. She has been selling albums/songs/tickets for FOURTEEN years. And remember we're in the age of many people streaming for free or almost free. So zillions of listens of her songs will never be considered a "sale".

Yeah, at this rate, The Beatles will be a footnote in musical history compared to Tsylor Swift.

(I love The Beatles. And I'm not a huge fan of Tsylor Swift. It's just that I don't deal in what I love, or what should be. I deal in what is.)

 

[DirtDog]

This one sticks in my craw. Overplayed on the CBC station I listen to. I have to turn the radio off when I hear it come on. It's about as far from Bo Diddley as you can get. George Thoroughood did it justice.