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Iron Ether Subterranea

No the bass isn't very loud, it's got Fender N3 coils in it which are pretty weak, all my other basses are louder and I've never had a problem with an octaver before.

I might have to email Taylor to see if it's normal, it would be a pain to return it though if it does need fixing given that I'm in the UK.
 
The Subterranea is designed to take whatever you put into it and synthesize a note from it. It has some filtering and tricky logic built in to the tracking portion which is trying its best to filter out what you don't want and only track what you do want, but bass and guitar signals are all over the place and analog computation in a small box can only be so clever. The envelope of your input signal is also tracked and then superimposed onto the synthesized voices. This enveloping was designed to be more dynamically-sensitive than if it were a more typical hard gated arrangement, which is important since the Subt was mainly intended as a front-end for filters like the Xerograph Deluxe. If the Subt created flat on/off dynamics then it would not interface well with an envelope filter and you'd just get two filter frequencies instead of a smooth sweep across a range.

Anything you can do to remove noise, especially high frequency noise, before the Subt will make the tracking much more solid. Rolling off treble at the bass is a good start if possible in your application. Generally if your pickups are weak then the dynamic range between your signal and the noise floor will be smaller, so it would make sense for this to affect the tracking. Compression can help or hurt depending on the comp, since some will end up boosting noise when you stop playing, while others have a non-flat frequency response which could help enhance the frequency range you're trying to track.

I would definitely like for this pedal to track perfectly for every player with every instrument, playing with a light touch or a heavy hand, but the Subt as it is represents the best Don Stavely (co-designer) and I could get it across a variety of input signals while keeping it fully analog. If a Subterranea 2 ever were to come out and improve on this (no such plans at this time), tracking any kind of signal perfectly, it would either have to have some considerable digital stuff going on, or there would be several trimpots inside that each user will need to tweak to match it to their instrument. My experience with the latter, on the first IE pedal (Cygnet tremolo) was that it caused a lot of confusion and annoyance for customers and overall probably meant that most people who had one did not have it set up properly and so ultimately performance was worse than if they weren't there at all.

So, removing noise, rolling off treble, and experimenting with boosting or lowering the input signal level should help find the spot where it tracks best for you. If you have a compressor with some tone control options that's a good companion as well. If you're not able to get it working the way you'd like, I do of course accept returns as I wouldn't ever want anybody to feel stuck with an IE pedal that's not working in their setup.
 
No the bass isn't very loud, it's got Fender N3 coils in it which are pretty weak, all my other basses are louder and I've never had a problem with an octaver before.

I might have to email Taylor to see if it's normal, it would be a pain to return it though if it does need fixing given that I'm in the UK.
I'm assuming you've tried it with your other basses as well?
 
Anything you can do to remove noise, especially high frequency noise, before the Subt will make the tracking much more solid.

Actually I'll try with another bass tomorrow - I have had noise problems with the wiring in this house before (used to make my old Stingray go nuts) and it wouldn't surprise me if this Jazz is picking some up. I know my Warwick is totally impervious to it so I'll try that tomorrow night.

For what it's worth I agree with you regarding trim pots and so on. Thanks for the advice hopefully I can get it sorted.
 
I will say that my dullest-sounding/least-lively basses (those with flatwounds/humbuckers) definitely track the best and with the least "artifacts" when used with the SubT- or as mentioned rolling the Tone control down helps immensely. If you are actually picking up playing noise vs noise interference (ie 60 cycle hum or noise from computers/etc), then each bass might act slightly differently regardless of overall output (meaning the sensitivity of your pickups could be the culprit). This does sound very much like the issue I had with my MXR Octave though- any sort of scraping on the strings would cause a toneless crunching noise from the pedal. I was able to minimize it somewhat by messing with input signal and careful playing, but it was always an issue. I don't experience anything like that with my SubT under normal circumstances (I can make it happen when using a drive/boost/fuzz in front of the Octave, as you might expect in that setup, and can actually make some cool sounds if you're into that!).
 
Yes it is a sort of static noise although in my case I've got the Uni set to saw and the volume off on the Octo so I must have slightly different symptoms to you.

I am also using a passive bass - a Jazz wired in series.

Sounds like we're experiencing similar issues... For me it's only noticeable "in bedroom" and isn't an issue under normal playing applications and conditions.
 
The Subterranea is designed to take whatever you put into it and synthesize a note from it. It has some filtering and tricky logic built in to the tracking portion which is trying its best to filter out what you don't want and only track what you do want, but bass and guitar signals are all over the place and analog computation in a small box can only be so clever. The envelope of your input signal is also tracked and then superimposed onto the synthesized voices. This enveloping was designed to be more dynamically-sensitive than if it were a more typical hard gated arrangement, which is important since the Subt was mainly intended as a front-end for filters like the Xerograph Deluxe. If the Subt created flat on/off dynamics then it would not interface well with an envelope filter and you'd just get two filter frequencies instead of a smooth sweep across a range.

Anything you can do to remove noise, especially high frequency noise, before the Subt will make the tracking much more solid. Rolling off treble at the bass is a good start if possible in your application. Generally if your pickups are weak then the dynamic range between your signal and the noise floor will be smaller, so it would make sense for this to affect the tracking. Compression can help or hurt depending on the comp, since some will end up boosting noise when you stop playing, while others have a non-flat frequency response which could help enhance the frequency range you're trying to track.

I would definitely like for this pedal to track perfectly for every player with every instrument, playing with a light touch or a heavy hand, but the Subt as it is represents the best Don Stavely (co-designer) and I could get it across a variety of input signals while keeping it fully analog. If a Subterranea 2 ever were to come out and improve on this (no such plans at this time), tracking any kind of signal perfectly, it would either have to have some considerable digital stuff going on, or there would be several trimpots inside that each user will need to tweak to match it to their instrument. My experience with the latter, on the first IE pedal (Cygnet tremolo) was that it caused a lot of confusion and annoyance for customers and overall probably meant that most people who had one did not have it set up properly and so ultimately performance was worse than if they weren't there at all.

So, removing noise, rolling off treble, and experimenting with boosting or lowering the input signal level should help find the spot where it tracks best for you. If you have a compressor with some tone control options that's a good companion as well. If you're not able to get it working the way you'd like, I do of course accept returns as I wouldn't ever want anybody to feel stuck with an IE pedal that's not working in their setup.

Thanks for the tips, learn something every day!

Let me be clear that the SubT is the best tracking octaver that I've ever played in terms of picking up played notes fully and stably.
 
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I have this issue as well and have wondered about it. I have in ears and compression later so that probably makes it seem worse.

I've been thinking is using the Subt on a theater gig this summer for just its octave capability but am worried that the sensitive sound guys might complain about artifacts.


I also have an old oc2, and this issue
doesn't show up there, though. Might just that instead but I prefer tracking on the Subt.
 
Anyone have suggested settings for a old school minimoog setting for Subt into xerograph deluxe? I can't quite seem to crack code on this.

The track I'm trying to get is Madonna's "like a prayer" which is tune my cover band plays every gig. Great part, and there's a sudden change from synth to bass guitar on original that makes it a Perfect place you use this pedal.

Thanks and let me know how you might approach it. I've been trying for months to find a sound like it and haven't had any luck nailing settings.
 
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I've been using the Xero-D as the front end to the SubT. I've only had these two pedals for a couple of weeks now, and I like how it sounds. I'll be swapping them around to get an idea of what Taylor recommends. BTW, Taylor is the shiznits! I had what I thought were issues with my Zero-D and he responded super quickly with tips and advice on how to rectify my 'situation'. thanks again Taylor!
 
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Check out my previous post one group back. There is a synthy grit built into the plain octave channel that becomes more pronounced when the tone knob is dialed CW esp past 2-3 o clock or so. That may be what's creating those "artifacts" in your case. You can easily dial out that grit by turning back the Tone knob, or follow Taylor's advice on playing with the tone knob on the bass end of the equation.

Good to know. I was thinking of some octave only settings where I am Turning filter knob up to about 2 o'clock for a slightly more interesting sound.. I'll try it at noon and see if artificacts are still there.

I also will try turning down tone knob on bass, though sometimes I'm using a good amount of clean signal too and don't want to change to bass sound. If I can get clean octave effect at noon that will make this pedal useable for my upcoming gig though since I'm just looking for basic oc2 like octave effect and not something more synthy.
 
The Subterranea is designed to take whatever you put into it and synthesize a note from it. It has some filtering and tricky logic built in to the tracking portion which is trying its best to filter out what you don't want and only track what you do want, but bass and guitar signals are all over the place and analog computation in a small box can only be so clever. The envelope of your input signal is also tracked and then superimposed onto the synthesized voices. This enveloping was designed to be more dynamically-sensitive than if it were a more typical hard gated arrangement, which is important since the Subt was mainly intended as a front-end for filters like the Xerograph Deluxe. If the Subt created flat on/off dynamics then it would not interface well with an envelope filter and you'd just get two filter frequencies instead of a smooth sweep across a range.

Anything you can do to remove noise, especially high frequency noise, before the Subt will make the tracking much more solid. Rolling off treble at the bass is a good start if possible in your application. Generally if your pickups are weak then the dynamic range between your signal and the noise floor will be smaller, so it would make sense for this to affect the tracking. Compression can help or hurt depending on the comp, since some will end up boosting noise when you stop playing, while others have a non-flat frequency response which could help enhance the frequency range you're trying to track.

I would definitely like for this pedal to track perfectly for every player with every instrument, playing with a light touch or a heavy hand, but the Subt as it is represents the best Don Stavely (co-designer) and I could get it across a variety of input signals while keeping it fully analog. If a Subterranea 2 ever were to come out and improve on this (no such plans at this time), tracking any kind of signal perfectly, it would either have to have some considerable digital stuff going on, or there would be several trimpots inside that each user will need to tweak to match it to their instrument. My experience with the latter, on the first IE pedal (Cygnet tremolo) was that it caused a lot of confusion and annoyance for customers and overall probably meant that most people who had one did not have it set up properly and so ultimately performance was worse than if they weren't there at all.

So, removing noise, rolling off treble, and experimenting with boosting or lowering the input signal level should help find the spot where it tracks best for you. If you have a compressor with some tone control options that's a good companion as well. If you're not able to get it working the way you'd like, I do of course accept returns as I wouldn't ever want anybody to feel stuck with an IE pedal that's not working in their setup.

Hey Taylor,

I don't really have anything to say, but simply wanted to thank you for the interesting insights here. I always find it interesting to hear about the approach people take (and obstacles they face) when designing pedals (not that I have the slightest idea how you go about that). Anyways, the SubT has a permanent spot on my board. I love it as a clean octave and as a crazy synthy box (paired with a phaser or a filter). Anyways, thanks!
 
OK, just had to say the SubT is a WINNER! :thumbsup:
Tried it at a gig for the first time last night, just plain octave. Nice beefy, punchy tone and rock solid tracking, sounded fat in the band mix.
Haven't even played with the synth channels yet...
Amazing how many functions are packed in such a compact box!
 
Got my SubT yesterday!!

I was wondering, is it normal that even with the unisynth turned down, when I move the wave type switch it changes my overall octave sound? When its on a square wave I get a beefier sound and the 2 other positions give me a "skinnier" sound, all of this with unisynth to mute...

And last thing, is it normal that when I play open strings the tracking goes a bit crazy? It actually track one octave higher sometimes...

Apart from that, this pedal rocks!! I've been able to get some nice snarky puppy Moog sounds (think about Shofukan or Lingus) !!
 
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Got my SubT yesterday!!

I was wondering, is it normal that even with the unisynth turned down, when I move the wave type switch it changes my overall octave sound? When its on a square wave I get a beefier sound and the 2 other positions give me a "skinnier" sound, all of this with unisynth to mute...

And last thing, is it normal that when I play open strings the tracking goes a bit crazy? It actually track one octave higher sometimes...

Apart from that, this pedal rocks!! I've been able to get some nice snarky puppy Moog sounds (think about Shofukan or Lingus) !!
My tracking jump sometimes like you mentioned, but after Taylor's post earlier about turning down your treble and using neck pickup it has helped a lot. I like your mention of Snarky Puppy. I was jamming out Binky last night and when I kicked on the SubT into the XereoD and boosted it a little it was awesome. No one can keep their bootys from shaking when that hits.
 
Got my SubT yesterday!!

I was wondering, is it normal that even with the unisynth turned down, when I move the wave type switch it changes my overall octave sound? When its on a square wave I get a beefier sound and the 2 other positions give me a "skinnier" sound, all of this with unisynth to mute...

And last thing, is it normal that when I play open strings the tracking goes a bit crazy? It actually track one octave higher sometimes...

Apart from that, this pedal rocks!! I've been able to get some nice snarky puppy Moog sounds (think about Shofukan or Lingus) !!
Yes, open strings have a very rich harmonic content, lots of strong overtones, and the tracking will pick those up, the octave up being the first and strongest. This is normal to all analog octaves.

Playing nearer the bridge (or nearer the neck?) might help too.
 
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