Irreversible climate damage is imminent

[ZenG]

typical government response......."we have a problem it seems....therefor we must tax it."

Carbon taxes are a complete waste of your money ...and won't solve anything.

 

[DerHoggz]

typical government response......."we have a problem it seems....therefor we must tax it."

Carbon taxes are a complete waste of your money ...and won't solve anything.

Maybe that could spur corporations to invest money into research in order to lower their taxes!

 

[NWB]

typical government response......."we have a problem it seems....therefor we must tax it."

Carbon taxes are a complete waste of your money ...and won't solve anything.

I don't know about that. If we raise billions of tax money to give to scientists, then I might just get myself a new Fodera. That would solve my problem of obtaining an expensive custom bass.

Where are my billions??!!

 

[Unrepresented]

I fully agree - we're already heavily over regulated.

If we'd had sufficient regulation we wouldn't have the issues we're having now, so I reject your premise of "over regulation."

 

[BawanaRik]

A) Yes, people are being misled. This is, and rightfully should be, a scientific issue. Unfortunately it's been coopted as an economic and therefore political issue. Those who perceive it as a threat to their political ideology or economic interests are investing heavily in cynicism to try and prevent action from being taken.

B) I don't disagree that this is an international issue, that's why the UN's involvement makes sense. Except you've been trained to fear the UN by the same cynical interests that wish to now prevent action on climate change. Yes, all those nations we've outsourced cheap manufacturing to avoid our own domestic pollution and labor laws have built their economies around literally doing our dirty work. It will take an international body to negotiate a method of balancing the needs of the people now (social, economic) with the needs of the people of the next generation who will really inherit the mess we've made and continue to make.

A VAT would create less demand for cheap manufacturing. This would alleviate as much of this outsourcing as we are willing to address.

This wouldn't require an international body. All it would take would be for people today to give up buying some cheap disposable things they really don't need in the first place.

 

[Solarmist]

A) Yes, people are being misled. This is, and rightfully should be, a scientific issue. Unfortunately it's been coopted as an economic and therefore political issue. Those who perceive it as a threat to their political ideology or economic interests are investing heavily in cynicism to try and prevent action from being taken.

Sounds like it's a threat to your "political ideology" being you always seem to bring up politics in these threads, and as far as giving the UN more power - that would be sheer suicide.

 

[BawanaRik]

typical government response......."we have a problem it seems....therefor we must tax it."

Carbon taxes are a complete waste of your money ...and won't solve anything.

The fact is we need to pay taxes if we expect services. I like having roads to drive on. They need to be maintained. Thus taxing gas seems fair to me.

Check out the AutoBahn. I'll pay ten bucks a gallon for that.

 

[BawanaRik]

If we'd had sufficient regulation we wouldn't have the issues we're having now, so I reject your premise of "over regulation."

Interesting. How did you deduce that "If we'd had sufficient regulation we wouldn't have the issues we're having now"?

 

[ZenG]

..Since when was the Autobahn a "government service"?

You can drive on it no matter what the price of gas is (if you can afford it)

Where I live, I pay more and more in taxes while the services are becoming less and less.

 

[DerHoggz]

..Since when was the Autobahn a "government service"?

You can drive on it no matter what the price of gas is (if you can afford it)

Where I live, I pay more and more in taxes while the services are becoming less and less.

Who maintains the roadways?
Who collects taxes in general, and gasoline tax specifically?

 

[BawanaRik]

And who gets to cruise at 200 mph on a just so fine roadway.

And the whole thing with having to deal with the left lane lay-abouts? Not happening.

 

[vin*tone]

That wasn't my intent at all - I'm firmly against global regulation. ...

Yeah I know it wasn't your intent. But that's what you did. You are arguing against countries taking responsibility for their own emissions. Meaning you need an averarching body to make emissions reductions happen. A better way is to develop a market mechanism but you argue against this.

Bear in mind - I live in a different country to you. In my country people argue that we shouldn't do anything because the USA isn't doing anything.

 

[Unrepresented]

as far as giving the UN more power - that would be sheer suicide.

Is this post based on anything other than cynicism and xenophobia?

Interesting. How did you deduce that "If we'd had sufficient regulation we wouldn't have the issues we're having now"?

~90% of scientists believe global warming is man made. If we'd had sufficient regulation, we wouldn't have global warming. That's as cut and dry as can be.

 

[vin*tone]

But it hasn't been established. The planet hasn't warmed up in 16 years and no one who believes in uncontrolled warming can explain it.

Yes they can and have. You've chosen the strongest recorded El Nino on record (1998) to try and establish a trend? That's not how trends are calculated.

Every single climate model has been wrong.

Wrong.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2014/03/21/hansens-1988-predictions/

The IPCC predicted in 2009 that the Arctic ice would be gone by 2014 or 2015, but there is more ice than before.

Extremely wrong.

How many times does the IPCC or do the climate models have to be wrong before some people question them? 1 more time? 20 more times?

um...

 

[DerHoggz]

Vin, what is it you do? You are always so good at presenting the data.

 

[BawanaRik]

Maybe that could spur corporations to invest money into research in order to lower their taxes!

It would seem to make sense to tax the consumer. Then the consumer would have incentives to lower their taxes.

 

[DerHoggz]

It would seem to make sense to tax the consumer. Then the consumer would have incentives to lower their taxes.

That would be a wonderful way to redistribute even more wealth from the bottom to the top, good plan!

 

[drumsnbass]

I've always had the same position on Global Warming, er, Climate Change , er, whatever...

Follow the money!

Everything anyone wants to change could be done right now. No problem.

No one wants to 'do' anything unless there are new 'taxes' somehow involved.

 

[Unrepresented]

I've always had the same position on Global Warming, er, Climate Change , er, whatever...

Follow the money!

Everything anyone wants to change could be done right now. No problem.

No one wants to 'do' anything unless there are new 'taxes' somehow involved.

Follow the money to the tax breaks we've given oil companies. I somehow don't hear about those during discussions of government intrusions into the market the way I do about the government trying to support potentially viable alternatives.

 

[drumsnbass]

Follow the money to the tax breaks we've given oil companies. I somehow don't hear about those during discussions of government intrusions into the market the way I do about the government trying to support potentially viable alternatives.

When you add up all the various levels of government taxes imposed upon 'big oil' government makes more off each gallon than the oil companies.

However your left turn is a straw man argument that does not address my salient point that anything can be done right now but much never will be until politicians convince you they need to pick your pocket to 'save you'.