is it just me ??? crowds have changed???

[Joe Ty]

... the more things change, the more they stay the same...

.Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose - That is actually Circumstances, from a much earlier album.

Edit: Ok, maybe not "much"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQ5fChnMDTAhXK34MKHfNmDWwQyCkIJTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9dHL7GA1nk&usg=AFQjCNHEv4EbQBR0jDfUKmXKJBSwfmJPGw

 

[bearhart74]

This.

The powers that be learned the dangers of an educational system that stressed involvement, participation, and rational thinking. It created people who thought and behaved like citizens. And when it resulted in things like the civil rights movement and antiwar protests and ultimately resulted in the resignation of a conservative president due to abuse of the powers of his office, steps were taken to make sure it didn't happen again.

The lessons now are: cooperate, make no distinctions or exercise any judgement, always ask permission, don't question official authority, learn just enough to get and keep a job, believe what you're told, keep your head down, deny whatever facts disturb you, believe in our innate and eternal moral superiority, know we are great no matter what, and always be afraid.

We get the future generations we create.

We are doomed. kardashians rule!

 

[Joe Ty]

This.

The powers that be learned the dangers of an educational system that stressed involvement, participation, and rational thinking. It created people who thought and behaved like citizens. And when it resulted in things like the civil rights movement and antiwar protests and ultimately resulted in the resignation of a conservative president due to abuse of the powers of his office, steps were taken to make sure it didn't happen again.

The lessons now are: cooperate, make no distinctions or exercise any judgement, always ask permission, don't question official authority, learn just enough to get and keep a job, believe what you're told, keep your head down, deny whatever facts disturb you, believe in our innate and eternal moral superiority, know we are great no matter what, and always be afraid.

We get the future generations we create.

Nixon? Conservative? He ran to the left of JFK.

 

[AztecViking]

Is anybody factoring in a small percentage ( give or take ) of early onset "old fart syndrome"?

 

[tbz]

People are less easily impressed than they used to be, and music had lost its role as a societally accepted form of escapism.

 

[AshInAmsterdam]

Seems to me that as the world has become ever smaller (thanks to connective technologies) people have become more withdrawn. Honestly even now I'm sitting with an iPhone browsing this forum when I could do something constructive in the house, or at least watch a film that might stimulate my mind rather than rot it.

Many of my younger friends (20s) will sit here to watch a film and have their phones out the whole time. Same at the pub. Seems to be the way it is now not just at gigs.

 

[BassBrass]

This.

The powers that be learned the dangers of an educational system that stressed involvement, participation, and rational thinking. It created people who thought and behaved like citizens. And when it resulted in things like the civil rights movement and antiwar protests and ultimately resulted in the resignation of a conservative president due to abuse of the powers of his office, steps were taken to make sure it didn't happen again.

The lessons now are: cooperate, make no distinctions or exercise any judgement, always ask permission, don't question official authority, learn just enough to get and keep a job, believe what you're told, keep your head down, deny whatever facts disturb you, believe in our innate and eternal moral superiority, know we are great no matter what, and always be afraid.

We get the future generations we create.

Really? I agreed with your last post about the pre/post industrial/digital differences, I'd add actually literacy and musical literacy and language itself changes consciousness... OK, maybe generally the authoritarian powers are growing and using digital tech to do so, but it isn't a conspiracy, it's just what happens unless it's interrupted. I could also argue that people today aren't afraid enough about what is going on because they are distracted by thrills and/or hard, slavish survival issues. Knowing that you "are great no matter what" might get you through some tough times, so I would hope it is balanced with a sense of personal smallness vs the very very vast universe.

 

[BruceWane]

Saw Royal Blood a while back. Early on, Mike Kerr announces, drolly - "You can all put your f*ing cell phones away. You don't need proof. We believe you. You were here."

 

[40Hz]

Really? I agreed with your last post about the pre/post industrial/digital differences, I'd add actually literacy and musical literacy and language itself changes consciousness... OK, maybe generally the authoritarian powers are growing and using digital tech to do so, but it isn't a conspiracy, it's just what happens unless it's interrupted. I could also argue that people today aren't afraid enough about what is going on because they are distracted by thrills and/or hard, slavish survival issues. Knowing that you "are great no matter what" might get you through some tough times, so I would hope it is balanced with a sense of personal smallness vs the very very vast universe.

I don't think it's conspiracy at all. Just expediency. You have a group in a position of power that prefers the status quo remain so. What could be more natural or rational (from their perspective) than that? And they have the resources and the opportunities to take steps. So they use the resources at their disposal to shape their environment in ways most congenial to themselves. No surprise there. That's what humans do, starting with fire and agriculture. We don't just adapt to our world. We adapt our world to us.

FWIW, there are several prominent conservatives that have gone on record saying that starting with Regan's election there was a concerted and focused effort on the part of conservative political elements to shift the general thinking and mood of the nation from it's perceived excessively liberal leanings in the 60s and 70s towards a more traditional and conservative agenda.

To accomplish that they began a program to change the way history and other things were taught in school, and to lean heavily on evangelical moral messaging. And it worked. Times were good, money was flowing, people were largely happy, and it served as proof (for many) that getting away from the constant questioning of our institutions and their agendas was proof positive we were back on the right track.

That's not a conspiracy. There was no attempt to hide it. It was just superior organization, more money to work with, and a much simpler and highly focused message to sell. The outcome wasn't just predictable, it was inevitable.

As the song says: Well played!

 

[Nephilymbass]

I think there are a lot of things at work. Of course location, location, location. Certain crowds at certain places just don't react the same. Difference markets have their own vibe. Could be a US thing too. I just watched some videos of Korn playing in South America and they looked like they were having a good ole time.
The "metal scene" has changed a lot in 10 years. The older crowd, which my band caters to, is...well...older so they show their enthusiasm a little differently. They don't wanna mosh as much because they have to go to work the next day and don't want to explain their bruises to the office. We still get shouts and horns.
Younger crowds are very subdued. They either stand around or try to literally kick the stuffing out of each other. There isn't as much common respect in the pit anymore. And of course they are glued to their phones. As a smaller band, I don't mind it when they shoot videos of us because it is free advertising. Plus, I can post-game my performance.
Things change; whadda gonna do?

I have noticed even different cities are better than others. Our recent Charlotte, Wilmington and Jacksonville NC shows were fun. we didn't draw as well in Wilmington but those folks went so crazy security had to hold the PA to keep it from falling. There's a lot more for people to donin those towns. Jacksonville and Wilmington are both coastal cities. Jacksonville is also home to camp Lejeune and the marines are pretty hardcore. Charlotte has a lot of things for people to do it's home to our NFL team our NBA team, ?)$7&&@0099

I think there are a lot of things at work. Of course location, location, location. Certain crowds at certain places just don't react the same. Difference markets have their own vibe. Could be a US thing too. I just watched some videos of Korn playing in South America and they looked like they were having a good ole time.
The "metal scene" has changed a lot in 10 years. The older crowd, which my band caters to, is...well...older so they show their enthusiasm a little differently. They don't wanna mosh as much because they have to go to work the next day and don't want to explain their bruises to the office. We still get shouts and horns.
Younger crowds are very subdued. They either stand around or try to literally kick the stuffing out of each other. There isn't as much common respect in the pit anymore. And of course they are glued to their phones. As a smaller band, I don't mind it when they shoot videos of us because it is free advertising. Plus, I can post-game my performance.
Things change; whadda gonna do?

location seems to be an influence. Oddly enough many towns seemed to have totally changed over the years. Back in the day towns where there was less to do we're actually the more fun places to play. Now it seems like it's the other way around. Maybe people that live in towns with beaches or that are home to an NFL or NBA team, NASCAR track, and so on haven't become so lost in their social media and their phones because they have more to do. I don't know though because there is a lot to do in Other towns also.

 

[Nephilymbass]

first thing i want to know, are your crowds the same age they were 10 years ago, or are they the same people that were there 10 years ago and now older?

Our hometown shows are a lot of the same people, just about everyone who hasn't moved away still comes out. The people from that time come who did move to nearby cities come to see us when we play their town. I do see a lot of younger faces so I wouldn't say the crowd has all gotten older though I'm sure the average age of people at the shows has gone up over the years.

 

[Charlzm]

Disagree. Our technologies and environment shape our perceptions and thought patterns. That's how humans adapt and survive. And I firmly believe people post the industrial revolution and post the advent of digital are fundamentally different in very real ways from the generations that went before.

You can see it in our institutions, our art, and our literature - as well as our assumptions about "reality" and our day to day behaviors. And while there may be many surface similarities, beneath the most obvious there are numerous and very real differences. And we're just now beginning to come to grips with it.

It's kind a chicken and egg scenario, though, don't you think? Our thoughts and perceptions lead us to alter our environment. The altered environment alters our thoughts and perceptions. Ouroboros.

 

[Nephilymbass]

Metal audiences are THE BEST audiences IMO... I've played for many biker gangs and they payed well.. and they payed cash usually...

From my experience when we do more hard rock themed shows the crowd is generally bigger and more engaged . Maybe because it's more females. We do some metal theme shows also and play antotally different setlist to fit with the other bands Better for those and it's hit or miss. Some metal crowds are pretty awesome, others especially if it's the hipster type folks come off as a bunch of snobs.

 

[40Hz]

It's kind a chicken and egg scenario, though, don't you think? Our thoughts and perceptions lead us to alter our environment. The altered environment alters our thoughts and perceptions. Ouroboros.

There's a high degree of interactivity involved. But that's what adaption and selection are all about. It's not quite the same thing as the Ourboros paradox, unless you're trying to nail down the absolute origin. And absolute origins are a rabbit hole to go down if there ever was one.

Because we push - and the universe pushes back upon occasion - there is a give and take plus some learning. And since we have a decent degree of control over the force and direction of our own pushing, it's not quite that inevitable or fixed destiny the Ourboros symbolism argues for. Our give & take evolves over time. It's that old Zen argument that you really can't step in the exact same part of the river twice. Because the water is flowing and the river is constantly changing as a result. Since are actions are locked into a linear temporal progression, there's good arguments that what we see as things coming back around are mostly just a mental convenience. But "very close" isn't the same as "exact same."

With apologies for committing philosophy here.

 

[Nephilymbass]

I wonder how much of this "watching the show you're at on your phone screen" started with sports and concerts where the only way to see the band or the teams was to watch the Jumbotron?

It's an interesting thought. It seemed like when I was younger everyone went to big sporting events. You might only go to one a year but you went. We have a NBA and an NFL in my state. Seems like it's always the same upper middle class and wealthy folks at all the games these days. Mainly anton of season ticket owners. When one of my friends gets a ticket to a game you'd think they'd won the lottery by how excited they are. But back to what you said I think a lot of people have gotten used to watching stuff on a screen.

 

[funkymonk13]

I think it's more "rock" music isn't as exciting anymore. But I have seen a few bands over the past few years where everyone is moshing, dancing and singing along.

CHON was a good one; that was a non stop party

 

[Nephilymbass]

Not everyone at the show is there to see the band. Some are just doing friends a favor. Only now they have a way to occupy their time instead of just standing there doing nothing and being miserable. And you can't "put the phone away and socialize" because you can't "socialize" in a situation where you can't hear anyone.

Those are the type of people that just need to stay home then. Quality over quantity

 

[GnarwhalNick]

I saw Green Day last month at the Verizon Center in DC. The pit wasn't full all the way but it was still pretty packed. Billie Joe went on an inspirational rant in the middle of one of the songs and talked about how he hates seeing kids in the pit with their phones up the entire show, because if you're looking at the show through a phone screen you're not actually looking at what's going on around you. Later on in the show one person still had their phone out and he called them out (half-jokingly of course).

I remember an Ellen episode where Justin Beiber performed. Literally every screaming fan had their phone out trying to document every possible second of that show. I don't know if any of them actually enjoyed themselves.

I used to be the guy who would try to take as many photos and videos that I could at shows to keep them for later. Out of every 100 photos I take at shows, 10 are usable (not saying I took 100 at one show, I mean over several). I still take a photo or two just to look back and reminisce but my phone stays in my pocket for 90% of the show. To me, if you're "watching a show through your phone," how much of it will you actually remember? I saw Green Day as a 14 year old high schooler during the American Idiot tour and remember it vividly (wayyy before the iphone craze. Facebook wasn't open to the public yet and smartphones were still a futuristic dream). There are many events I don't remember as well because I was on my phone the entire time, trying to document it for another time. The ironic thing is, I wasn't living it in real time.

I envy shows from the early 2000s and before. You can just see on youtube how the crowds are there for the performers and have nothing to distract them with. Seeing huge rock bands fill arenas having tens of thousands of fans jumping in unison is what got me into playing music in the first place, but now I have to dream up an arena full of iphones

 

[Gab124]

I am not sure things changed that much from my perspective. I will admit that there are way more cell phones being held up, but when I was a kid at a show we just held up a lighter, but for the most part acted the same. Now, with that said, I don't go to any metal concerts, and any genre that would start a mosh I was likely never there. Classic rock, current jam band scene that I am into most folks still stand around, yell and clap and enjoy the show. At our shows we still get lots of girls coming up to the front and flashing us and a lot of yelling and general crowd interaction - there are nights when the room energy is low and those can be difficult to get through.

 

[Spidey2112]

.Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose - That is actually Circumstances, from a much earlier album.

Edit: Ok, maybe not "much"

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiQ5fChnMDTAhXK34MKHfNmDWwQyCkIJTAA&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9dHL7GA1nk&usg=AFQjCNHEv4EbQBR0jDfUKmXKJBSwfmJPGw

Um, yeah... was trying to tie the video in with the thread, when I realized...

... looking down from Toledo
On a world of brats and beer
The Mudhen's surface splintered
Into sorry Hemispheres...