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Is it really THAT SERIOUS??????

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#82
tbirdsp said:
What happened to two fingers? Oh, must be playing at all those sub gigs he drummed up:D
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Trust me. I don't have to drum up business. I turn down more than I play these days. I got a call from a guy in Baltimore(ish area) this afternoon. (I live in NC.) He said he got my number from a guy in Texas! And that guy got my number from a guy in Nashville. It's the bass circle of life or something! But I'll be playing in a couple of weeks with that band when they pass through somewhat near here. They do head music. Guess I'm finally going to learn some Dead and Marley. 'Bout time, I guess. Whatever, it's a gig with some nice fellas. It'll be fun. At least I don't have to worry about THOSE guys stressing out on me.
 
#83
I want to play with reliable people which means:
1) They show up
2) They show up on time

If you commit to a gig, then I expect you to be there. If something important comes up and you can get a sub or something can be arranged, no problem. But, if you "don't feel like it"... that just doesn't cut it.

The best thing is to get with like-minded players so everyone is on the same page.
 
#84
Back to what two fingers is saying about being serious, well I am ok with him having an attitude of it not being serious if that is what he wants, but to some of us it is serious. It isn't about money, I would love to make a living playing music, but that isn't going to happen. But like I said earlier, to some of us, music is what we live for. No it is not life and death, but it's very important to me, I really care about it. That doesn't make me better than the next guy, but it is my nature to try and be my best at all times. I wouldn't lose my day job or shirk my other responsibilities, but when I say I will be at practice or a gig, I will be there unless there is a really good reason not to be. I expect the same of my bandmates, and haven't really had much of a problem with anyone else as I tend to chose people that take it seriously. I never understood the logic behind some one who would cop out on a responsibility, if you say you are going to be there, be there.
 
#88
soitainly said:
Back to what two fingers is saying about being serious, well I am ok with him having an attitude of it not being serious if that is what he wants, but to some of us it is serious. It isn't about money, I would love to make a living playing music, but that isn't going to happen. But like I said earlier, to some of us, music is what we live for. No it is not life and death, but it's very important to me, I really care about it. That doesn't make me better than the next guy, but it is my nature to try and be my best at all times. I wouldn't lose my day job or shirk my other responsibilities, but when I say I will be at practice or a gig, I will be there unless there is a really good reason not to be. I expect the same of my bandmates, and haven't really had much of a problem with anyone else as I tend to chose people that take it seriously. I never understood the logic behind some one who would cop out on a responsibility, if you say you are going to be there, be there.
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I tell my day job that I'm going to be there.....5 days a week. And I do everything in my power to "be there." And....I have a lot of incentive to be there.....like BHO thinks I should pay a lot more takes type of incentive. ;) But sometimes, I just can't. And, when I can't, it has a negative impact on a lot of people. But, sometimes it can't be helped, and I have to make arrangements to be away from work for a day or two. Why can't the same standard apply to a weekend band?
 
#89
fdeck said:
Feasible, yes. Anything is possible. Desirable, no. Many of the players in the band, in addition to adult responsibilities, also belong to other bands. If we demanded 100% attendance, we would have to settle for less talented players and/or play less challenging material.
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Exactly! We have some amazingly talented people in our band, and because they are amazingly talented and in many instances also making a living through music, they have other musical commitments as well. For example, if one of the members of our band gets a call to play a theater gig that is going to run for six weeks with 7 shows a week, I'm not going to ask him to turn down that opportunity.

We have a very deep list of equally-talented subs, so we can sub for anyone in the band, including singers, as needed. If we insisted on 100% attendance from every member, we wouldn't be able to attract that level of talent. The fact that we have the ability to be flexible without compromising the quality of the band's performance is what allows us to attract high-level talent.

Because we have such a deep sub list, we are generally able to book gigs without checking on the availability of individual members in advance. If someone has a conflict with a gig, they tell us when we announce the gig, we arrange a sub, and everyone is happy. If someone develops a conflict for an existing gig, as long as it is reasonably in advance of the gig, they tell us, we arrange a sub, and everyone is happy. If we need to sub for someone on the day of a gig, we can do that too, although in that instance, there had better be a good reason for it.

I think that people need to recognize that circumstances vary. Our band is the type of band that can be flexible with subs; some others may not be. If someone decides to sub out of one of our gig on short notice because he decides to go to the beach, we would probably fire him. But if someone needs to sub out on short notice because there is a death in the family, or his wife goes into premature labor, or he is sick in bed with a stomach flu causing vomiting, or there was an unforseeable problem that arose at the last minute with his day job, we can handle that.
 
#90
I suspect there is some locality differential going on here, too. Where I live and work, there are few/no substitutes. If someone says he can't/won't do a gig, then the band doesn't do the gig. What happens then? You never get called back to that venue, thus losing 10-30% of your annual income.

It's a business, treat it like one, and everyone is much happier.
 
#91
tekdiver500ft said:
I suspect there is some locality differential going on here, too. Where I live and work, there are few/no substitutes. If someone says he can't/won't do a gig, then the band doesn't do the gig. What happens then? You never get called back to that venue, thus losing 10-30% of your annual income.

It's a business, treat it like one, and everyone is much happier.
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People get seriously sick sometimes......even in business. If you can't / won't find subs for your key players, then having having another band that can cover rare and serious issues that might cause a cancellation is a great idea.
 
#92
This!! I mean I want my cover band to be good, but at the end of the day these people who just happen to be in the club/bar while we are playing generally just don't care. That has been my experience, a few appreciate LIVE music most do not! THey are too busy checking there IPHONE/IPADS and talking.
Frankly I am amazed most owners even bother to hire a live band. They sure don't promote it here, AT ALL. and there customers don't appreciate it. But I am playing like MELLOWINMAN because I love to do it. When it ain't fun I sure as hell aint hauling gear, in and out, playing for 3 hours for any other reason. I play bass very well, but the average bar goer just doesn't care, whether I am playign with my band or someone else is.
two fingers said:
OK I'm back. Interesting reads everyone. By the way, in case you are unfamiliar with my "writing style" (and many of you aren't...... I don't fancy myself as one of the "popular kids" here) I write very sarcastically. This is often misunderstood as my being really upset, or degrading even. That couldn't be further from the truth. My opinions some across stronger than they are quite often. If I offended anyone, I apologize.

1) If you are in one of the bands a railed "against", good for you!

2) If you are committed to your band and would play one the day your house burnt down, good for you!

3) If you honestly feel that you are the only person in the tri-state area who could cover your parts, good for you!

That being said, here's the thing. Lighten up. My gosh you guys take some music SERIOUSLY! You are in the ENTERTAINMENT business. You are not curing cancer. Nobody is going to loose a wink of sleep if they don't hear YOUR EXACT rendition of Tush. And, yes, I was mostly referring to cover bands in my OP. If you have all moved to LA or Nashville with the intention of making it in the music business having sold all of your worldly possessions to have a go at it, then you are in a different situation. However, if you are in Kansas playing a few pay to play gigs in an original (aka "real band".... ha!) then you too need to lighten up.

I'm not committed? Give me a BREAK! I am married. I have two (YOUNG) kids. I am in school full-time. I run a business. And I do side work. If you think that my rant has anything to do with COMMITMENT ISSUES, then you can bite me. I'm the first one up and the last one down in my house every day. I'm the first student to class. I am ranked #1 in my class with a 4.1 average. My clients call me 7 days a week. Now THAT is some serious stuff.

Having to find another guy to play drums on Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl for Stinky's Bar and Grill Friday night, seemingly "letting down" three other musicians (by not knowing Freebird? Really?), Stinky (who wouldn't be at your funeral if you died in a wreck tomorrow), Bambi the bar tender who doesn't even know you play BASS rather than guitar, and the 75 drunks who came to hear Brown Eyed Girl (or the 13 drunks.... sorry..... friends who came to hear 10 original.... excuse me "real" bands at one pay to play gig) is TOTAL BS. You ARE taking yourselves WAY too seriously. You bang out songs on a BASS. It's FUN. If it weren't FUN, or ENTERTAINING, nobody would come to watch you DO IT. We are RESPECTABLE CLOWNS. We perform and ACT to make people CLAP. The clapping goes along with BUYING BEER. If it weren't for BUYING BEER, there would BE NO MUSIC BUSINESS. Not even in Nashville, LA, or NYC.

Speaking of Nashville, I have friends who live there. Some of the fill-in gigs I do are with acts out of Nashville. One guy (we'll call him "Joe") meets people in a FOOD LION PARKING LOT to go do gigs. He will drive 11 1/2 hours three states over to play a gig with a rhythm section he met at Food Lion THAT MORNING. They have NEVER played together. That is the way (small-time) Nashville works. And these people are playing for a LIVING. And, yes, they are playing ORIGINALS. How are they able to pull it off? It's simple. Everybody out there can PLAY. They can ride in a van, listen to a song a couple times, make a chart, and come show time they can PLAY THE SONG. Why is that so foreign to so many of you? "Joe" often doesn't even know WHO will be playing with him the WEEK before going out on the rod for DAYS. His act does 14 originals and some pretty complicated country. I know because I play with him sometimes. And the FIRST time I played with him, I got the call for a weekend of gigs on WEDNESDAY. I was ready by Friday (with kids, a business, school, etc.) and the gigs went fine. And I even aced a DC/AC exam that had to be done online by midnight Sunday. That's what (cough) people who can PLAY THEIR INSTRUMENTS DO.

So, if Nashville original acts (aka "real" bands) can do it all the time, why can't you guys who either play Knock On Wood on the weekends, or you guys (in "real" bands) who play ten freakin' songs for $12.13 a night between 45 other "real" bands get a sub every now and then and get over yourselves? If your guitar player finds out on Thursday afternoon that failing his exam on Monday morning would mean he has to take the class over, he would be a dipstick for playing a show Friday and Saturday with some band just because "Slick", "Snake", "Roscoe", and "The Beast" wouldn't be able to make $12.78 playing their originals for 21 of their closest friends. Likewise, if I get the chance to sit behind the batter's box at a RedSox at Fenway game next Friday night (a one-in-a-lifetime chance) I'm not going to turn it down because the other three guys in "Two fingers, the Band" will be pissed because they would rather have me there at Grinder's Honkytonk than the other guy who knows all the material (except maybe a couple) and might have to read a chart on 5 songs. Sorry. That's just dumb IMO. I'm going to see the Sox. Grinder will be fine. The drunks will be fine. Two Fingers, The Band will be fine. And I am comfortable enough in my own skin to know that I won't be missed all that much.

Neither would any of you by the way. Nobody is irreplaceable. The band may not be able to do the same arrangements, but they could put on a show with somebody else if they had to. If you broke your right hand this morning, are you guys really saying that your band would shut down until your cast came off six weeks from now? What if you LOST your right arm? Are all of you saying that your bands would just FOLD and call it a day? In most cases, you are simply wrong. Sorry.

Either way, it's an interesting conversation that seems to have most people at the far ends of the spectrum. Again, I am sarcastic. I love original bands. Lighten up. I'm only kidding with you a little. We all know you never make as much as $13 for a show. That's a pipe dream. (That was another joke.)
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#93
Febs said:
Exactly! We have some amazingly talented people in our band, and because they are amazingly talented and in many instances also making a living through music, they have other musical commitments as well. For example, if one of the members of our band gets a call to play a theater gig that is going to run for six weeks with 7 shows a week, I'm not going to ask him to turn down that opportunity.

We have a very deep list of equally-talented subs, so we can sub for anyone in the band, including singers, as needed. If we insisted on 100% attendance from every member, we wouldn't be able to attract that level of talent. The fact that we have the ability to be flexible without compromising the quality of the band's performance is what allows us to attract high-level talent.

Because we have such a deep sub list, we are generally able to book gigs without checking on the availability of individual members in advance. If someone has a conflict with a gig, they tell us when we announce the gig, we arrange a sub, and everyone is happy. If someone develops a conflict for an existing gig, as long as it is reasonably in advance of the gig, they tell us, we arrange a sub, and everyone is happy. If we need to sub for someone on the day of a gig, we can do that too, although in that instance, there had better be a good reason for it.

I think that people need to recognize that circumstances vary. Our band is the type of band that can be flexible with subs; some others may not be. If someone decides to sub out of one of our gig on short notice because he decides to go to the beach, we would probably fire him. But if someone needs to sub out on short notice because there is a death in the family, or his wife goes into premature labor, or he is sick in bed with a stomach flu causing vomiting, or there was an unforseeable problem that arose at the last minute with his day job, we can handle that.
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Yes, that seems reasonable. However, you are in a band with like-minded musicians and you have an established plan for subs.

The main point for me, is once you commit to a gig, if you're not able to make it, it must be for a valid reason. Illness, family illness or death, some sort of real emergency; that's all stuff that is valid.
 
#94
I guess if you live in a magical fairyland where competent and available subs grow on trees that's fine, but in a small music market like DC, it's hard enough trying to find enough talented people to fill a band in the first place, let alone have EXTRAS who are just waiting around to play with you if some flakes for the night.

Again, I play originals, so it's a bit different. But even when a few of us were trying to form a cover band, it was impossible to find the last piece or 2 (singer and maybe drummer is what we were looking for). This was not a band of hacks of either. The other musicians are some of the best in the area. So it's very hard around here to just conjure up extra people to play with when someone bails.

And I really don't understand the various responses of "what if someone is seriously sick/injured or someone in the family dies".

NO ONE IS SAYING YOU CAN'T EVER MISS A GIG FOR A GOOD REASON. So stop arguing against something that has never been said. What some of us ARE arguing against is some of the situations mentioned in the OP, like "going to the beach". Seriously? To me that's pretty irresponsible, right up there with "sorry guys, don't feel like doing tomorrow's gig, gonna stay home, smoke weed, and watch cartoons instead".

We all get it. Scheduling conflicts and unforeseen events happen. But just blowing off gigs (or practices really) for any and all reasons is simply not acceptable in most cases.

So by all means, take your personal/sick/bereavement days, but pick your battles. If you have a couple personal days a year and then a couple other things happen beyond your control, that's fine. But if you're missing like every other gig or a huge amount of practices, maybe you should just quit the band and give someone else a chance to be a little more dedicated.
 
#95
it depends on the gig.

sometimes we (or I, at least) are hard to replace. fusion gigs with lots of notes and harmonized stuff and all that BS, it's hard to have someone on call who can sub the gig and do all the material as well as the regular player does.

but, if someone finds an adequate sub, or if i leave a gig and know i gave it to someone who can handle it as well as i can, there's no problem.

like post #2 said, its an opportunity for someone else to work. i too get lots of sub gigs, and its great for me to do them. you meet bands, get to work with them, and if you're good they'll ask for you next time if they need a player or sub.

t
 
#96
jungleheat said:
What some of us ARE arguing against is some of the situations mentioned in the OP, like "going to the beach". Seriously? To me that's pretty irresponsible, right up there with "sorry guys, don't feel like doing tomorrow's gig, gonna stay home, smoke weed, and watch cartoons instead".
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So let me get this straight. Many of you have day jobs. Many of you who HAVE day jobs play MOST weekends during the Summer. And most of the bands I have played with book for the year at the latest by Spring. So a guy with a day job has to know when he might just want a weekend off by Spring or face not having a SINGLE WEEKEND OFF all SUMMER? That's just dumb.

And as for those of you who "can't find subs", I'm sorry, but in most cases you simply haven't looked all that hard. It's not like Eastern NC is chock full of bassists waiting by their phones for sub gig calls. I did something really nuts. I got all PROACTIVE on the situation. (I know. Stupid, right?) I actually put an ad in three local CLs and over the course of a month. And (after about 100 emails and phone calls) I started a NETWORK of bass players who might be interested in a pick up gig.

And, like I said in my OP (which has been SERIOUSLY misunderstood) sometimes a guy will call me and ask if I can do a gig. Why? Cuz the guy wants to go to the stinking beach! Why does EVERY other business on the PLANET allow for a guy to take a VACATION from that business EXCEPT for the MUSIC business?????? That's ridiculous. Now, here's how it works. BEFORE they ask the band, they call me (or some other competent bassist) to see if they are available. If I am, THEN they go to the band and say "Hey guys, I'm thinking of taking my girlfriend to Myrtle Beach for the weekend the third weekend in August. We have Stinky's and Fat Freddie's on the books. Two Fingers says he can do it. He has a set list with keys. He can also sing songs A, B, F, G, L, P, and Z. Cool?" To me, this is NOT LETTING ANYONE DOWN. It's taking a vacation just like we all do at our day jobs.

Why are you so special? Sorry, I still don't get it. I DO get that it's different for SOME all-original bands who are trying to make a living at music. But if you play in a bar/wedding/corporate band, OR you play in an original band that only gets to play 5 songs in between 10 other original bands, and you won't let a guy out of a show unless his mother passes (or something equally as traumatic) then you are taking yourselves way too seriously and being ridiculous.

You play music. Pretty much, you sell beer. Lighten up.
 
#97
Seems like people are arguing nothing here.

Nobody is saying there's any problem if a sub can be had. Or did I miss something. I don't think anyone is saying anything even if someone can't do a gig. People get pissed when someone cancels a gig and leaves the band hanging. And they should.

Am I missing something? What's the argument here?
 
#98
two fingers said:
I got a call from a guy in Baltimore(ish area) this afternoon .... I'll be playing in a couple of weeks with that band when they pass through somewhat near here .... At least I don't have to worry about THOSE guys stressing out on me.
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...but if I were them and read this thread, I would be stressing on you.

What happens if you get the urge to go to the beach, or the beauty parlor that day?? :rolleyes:
 
#100
I think it's super ironic that the OP is basically telling everyone that doesn't agree with them to lighten up and get over themselves, while simultaneously implying that his view is the only possible "correct" one.
 
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