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Is it really THAT SERIOUS??????

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#121
stagebanter said:
Yeah, because that's crunch time. So really, it's OK to take time off - just do it when it's not crunch time, right? Doesn't sound so ridiculous when you put it that way.
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Sure. But I guess my point all along has been that not EVERY gig is "crunch time". Some of them are just bar gigs and you'll be fine if you have a fill-in. And that doesn't seem ridiculous to me at all. That's pretty much what I started with, or so I thought.
 
#122
jungleheat said:
I guess if you live in a magical fairyland where competent and available subs grow on trees that's fine, but in a small music market like DC, it's hard enough trying to find enough talented people to fill a band in the first place, let alone have EXTRAS who are just waiting around to play with you if some flakes for the night.
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DC is full of fine musicians, and there's more musicians than gigs out here. There's tons of guys out here looking for work. If there is a paying gig on the books, it's not too hard to find a sub.
 
#123
Among jazz players, subbing serves a valuable purpose: Networking. I've been playing in Madison for 15 years, and have enjoyed a reasonable gig schedule for a weekend warrior. I've played with many of the area's top bands. I don't have a website. I don't have demo recordings of myself. The last audition that I attended was in 1982 for the college jazz band. My gear is completely nondescript. How unprofessional! Folks know that I can play, and that I'm reliable, because I have a reputation.

In that milieu, a player who lacked dedication would stick out like a sore thumb, and would be weeded out pretty quickly if they ever made it to the point of being able to play a jazz gig in the first place. Ditching gigs for frivolous reasons would be practically un-heard of. You don't play this music if you'd rather be fishing.

This is how it's been for 100+ years.

The band that I'm in has never been sidelined by loss of a player, in 25 years of continuous operation. We just fill in with someone who's played with the band as a sub. That's how I got in.
 
#124
I don't think anyone is saying to just blow off a gig, or just cancel on a whim. It's not always just about cancelling last minute either. I've had people be upset because someone was unavailable for some gig in the future because of some other commitment. But sometimes things come up, and it's not necessarily a death or illness. There was a time of my life when I was a do a gig at all costs, and never missed a gig ever. But now I have more commitments than I used to, and deal with folks that have more commitments as well, so I've had to ease up on that view. For guys/gals I work with, I hope that they keep their other commitments as well, and that includes their families and work as well as the band. I don't advocate bailing on a gig on a whim or last minute, but I'm pretty flexible and comfortable with using subs, so cancellations or conflicts don't bother me as much as it may others.

There's always a musician that is looking for work, and most will consider getting a referral for a paying gig to be a favor. I know that I'm thankful if I got a chance to get a paid gig because someone had to attend a friend's wedding, kid's graduation, office Christmas party, etc..

But, my POV is that it's much easier for me to find a band than a family. Bands and musicians come and go, but family shouldn't. And in the end, you dance with the one that brought you and the one you want to take you home.
 
#125
two fingers said:
But I do fill-in gigs all the time. I play more fill-in gigs than any other kind.
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You just answered your own question. ;)

Yes, its that serious. Music is a fickle industry, and especially the bar scene. Not showing is poor business practice and unless you're very established, it's easy for a venue thats been let down by your band to replace you with an act that won't let them down.
 
#126
jive1 said:
DC is full of fine musicians, and there's more musicians than gigs out here. There's tons of guys out here looking for work. If there is a paying gig on the books, it's not too hard to find a sub.
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Thank you. I wasn't absolutely positive, but I suspected this was the case. Again, I think many people either WANT to think they are irreplaceable, or they are just too lazy to look.
 
#128
Depth_Charge said:
Yes, its that serious. Music is a fickle industry, and especially the bar scene. Not showing is poor business practice and unless you're very established, it's easy for a venue thats been let down by your band to replace you with an act that won't let them down.
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If I/we continually put forth a good product, and then some idiot club owner decides to fill my band's slot with someone else because I wasn't there for one show, then he can go screw himself. If you guys bow to guys like that all the time, I'm sorry. What a mess.

However, I would argue that not one bass player on this forum is THAT important. (I know I'm not). Again, as I have said 100 times, as long as the band plays the right songs, nobody cares if it's me or a sub standing there..... not the club owner, not the staff, and certainly not the audience. (They care about that ALMOST as much as they care what rig I am playing through or which bass I play.... which is none at all.) If the club owner DOES care, then he is someone I don't have to work with. If you do, that's your problem. (But unless you give me a specific instance, I don't believe that would happen. No club owner is going to walk up to the band at the end of the night and say "How DARE you come in here without Two Fingers! Consider this your last show!" Ha! Fat chance.)

The short version is that getting a sub for a gig is NOT LETTING ANYONE DOWN. It's not screwing the staff, the owner, or the audience (or even your band mates for that matter). And you have to be carrying around a metric ton of self importance to think you are singly that important. You just aren't. It's ego check time for some people I guess.

I don't know. I guess the older I get (41) the more I just learn to not sweat things that really just are not that big a deal. Grownups where I come from tend to roll with it rather than getting all bound up over trivial stuff. If one of your band mates needs to take a night off on the night of a previously scheduled gig, I would hope you would act like grownups, round up set lists with keys, go play the show, and have a good time. But I guess that's a foreign concept to some. I certainly am in the minority on this one it seems. Oh well. Enjoy your rigid business commitments..... or bar bands. I prefer to play in the latter.
 
#131
jive1 said:
DC is full of fine musicians, and there's more musicians than gigs out here. There's tons of guys out here looking for work. If there is a paying gig on the books, it's not too hard to find a sub.
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I think any more with the state of the economy in some areas this is true. A few years ago bass players in my parts were hard to find now they are on local CL looking for gigs and to sub etc.
It is almost like you have to do 2 gigs to equal the pay one used to give you.
 
#132
Reading a big part of that thread sound to me like ... you are all a bunch of workolic ... having a day job and then a job as a joke box in a bar ...

But since most people won't ever touch a musical instrument if there isn't some money thrown at them or they want to feel like a rock star ... I guess it make sense somewhat.

Still, I think it isn't the end of the world especially if it is your second job. Life is short and we waste it in a day job ... one day you will realise you did nothing but work.
 
#134
When our band started up (cover country band) we had a discussion right from the start. We made sure we were all on the same page as to what our goals and expectations were for this band. We only want to play twice a month. We're all late 40's early 50's guys with families and real jobs. Need to practice each week but will work around work schedules. Family and real job comes first when scheduling gigs. When booking future gigs everyone has the right to say such and such a weekend is off limits with no questions asked. Daughter is graduating high school this date. Family vacation this date. Going away for Easter, etc.

As long as everyone does a good job of advance planning, with the exception of emergencies, there shouldn't be an issue.
 
#137
bluewine said:
Some of us don't have lives outside if music and gigging.

Go to the beach, go hiking what's that?

To answer your question.

Yes, for me it's that serious.

Blue
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If you are really truly enjoying that, best of luck and I hope it works out for you. But it seems to me that is a recipe for burnout big time. If you ONLY do music, and NOTHING else, to me that's like eating only doughnuts. Sure, everybody loves doughnuts....... but nobody loves ONLY doughnuts for more than a couple meals.
 
#138
two fingers said:
If you are really truly enjoying that, best of luck and I hope it works out for you. But it seems to me that is a recipe for burnout big time. If you ONLY do music, and NOTHING else, to me that's like eating only doughnuts. Sure, everybody loves doughnuts....... but nobody loves ONLY doughnuts for more than a couple meals.
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It's really is the only thing I enjoy.

Saturday night was an extremely good night for my band. Everything clicked, our playing, the sound and the crowd. Plus my bass guitar teacher ( a Milwaukee local hero for over 40 years) stopped in with some of the members of his band..

The whole night was surreal. For me, this gigging stuff is the only thing that does it for me.

I'm pretty lucky to be working in a drama free organization with good people.

Blue
 
#139
two fingers said:
If I/we continually put forth a good product, and then some idiot club owner decides to fill my band's slot with someone else because I wasn't there for one show, then he can go screw himself. If you guys bow to guys like that all the time, I'm sorry. What a mess.

However, I would argue that not one bass player on this forum is THAT important. (I know I'm not). Again, as I have said 100 times, as long as the band plays the right songs, nobody cares if it's me or a sub standing there..... not the club owner, not the staff, and certainly not the audience. (They care about that ALMOST as much as they care what rig I am playing through or which bass I play.... which is none at all.) If the club owner DOES care, then he is someone I don't have to work with. If you do, that's your problem. (But unless you give me a specific instance, I don't believe that would happen. No club owner is going to walk up to the band at the end of the night and say "How DARE you come in here without Two Fingers! Consider this your last show!" Ha! Fat chance.)

The short version is that getting a sub for a gig is NOT LETTING ANYONE DOWN. It's not screwing the staff, the owner, or the audience (or even your band mates for that matter). And you have to be carrying around a metric ton of self importance to think you are singly that important. You just aren't. It's ego check time for some people I guess.

I don't know. I guess the older I get (41) the more I just learn to not sweat things that really just are not that big a deal. Grownups where I come from tend to roll with it rather than getting all bound up over trivial stuff. If one of your band mates needs to take a night off on the night of a previously scheduled gig, I would hope you would act like grownups, round up set lists with keys, go play the show, and have a good time. But I guess that's a foreign concept to some. I certainly am in the minority on this one it seems. Oh well. Enjoy your rigid business commitments..... or bar bands. I prefer to play in the latter.
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Yes, in many cases subs are available. Competent subs is another issue. I'm in the DC area and quite often the people who I know can sub for me aren't available. The reason should be obvious. There are people who simply aren't up to the task so if that makes me special, so be it.

The problems I've seen haven't been with club owners and besides, many of us don't just play in clubs. I've seen musicians jam up bands on well-paying gigs that had contracts. Fail to meet the terms of that contract and the band can be shorted money legally. Some people don't take that seriously and fortunately they usually get weeded out.

And on big gigs quite often other potential clients show up to see what you're about. A poor first impression can kill an entire revenue stream.
 
#140
It appears to me that there are two separate perspectives at play here: the "this is my living and I gig as much as I can" versus "I love music and playing live but not full-time". Each has its merits and drawbacks.

Where I live, there aren't that many competent players available for subbing work (that I know of), so making schedules work is important for everyone in my band. We are all family men and have very good day jobs, so we fall into the latter perspective I mentioned above.

Those guys who are fortunate enough to be touring and playing 250 gigs a year have a completely different set of parameters that must be adhered to. If someone can't make a date for whatever reason, finding subs is far more important to keep the wheels rolling. I'm sure there are many players who make a tidy living just doing sub work.

For those who are making their living making music, I applaud you and am glad you are able to do so. Please don't knock us for doing so.
 
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