Is there no greener grass?

[Skybone]

Maybe the OP needs to call a band meeting to discuss this. Surely there's a reason why it's started to go downhill, so try and figure it out.

Is it the set list? Is it gigging (or lack of)? Do you need to learn / write some new material? Is it down to frustration of the local scene? Is it because of other bands becoming more successful (more / bigger gigs etc.)? Is it outside pressures?

If you enjoy playing music with the rest of the band, you need to figure out what the cause of the issue is, and try to fix it.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Unlike marriage, or (in most cases) full time employment, music isn't necessarily monogamous. You can keep playing with your present band (which you said isn't playing as much) and see if there is something that is a better fit.

 

[socialleper]

Unfortunately those who derive the joy of performance primarily from applause will find it to be a fickle mistress: Finding a good and reliable prescription for applause is difficult, and we become immune to the effect if we get too much. If we allow applause to function like an addiction, what we do when immunity sets in can involve self-destructive and anti-social behavior.

Amen to that.
Playing music is an emotional outlet for me. I have to pretend to play nice all day long so I can afford the stuff that allows me to vent my anger\frustration\disappointment. That aspect is very important to me. You are right though, that there is always a ramp up to these things. You can write and play on your own, but you can't help but feel that it would be better playing with other people. Then just playing in the garage is fun, but you really want audiences to hear it. Then you always want bigger and bigger crowds because it is more energy to feed off of. Then you want to record so you can reach people that aren't nearby. It is a constant spiral.
So, much the the grass is greener syndrome, there is the "when is it ever enough" syndrome. Not that this is limited to musicians. In other professions it is considered a laudable, if not necessary train to never be satisfied with where you are; to constantly want more. That is what essentially drives our economy.

 

[socialleper]

Sometimes the best thing to do is just take a break. My last band always took Thanksgiving through New Year's off. It gave us time to spend holidays with our families and when we got back together in January, we were excited about playing again.

I thought that was what we were going to do. Then when we played last week, the one of the guitarists said "We don't need to practice every week anymore. We will just practice once a month unless a show comes up."
The other guys seem OK with that. I objected to the "holiday break" and was over ruled. I feel like we are essentially on cruise control.

 

[socialleper]

One aspect of my OP that has been over looked, and is a concern for me, is the state of the scene around me. I'm not 100% about everything my current band does, but it isn't like I've seen any other bands in our area that I would immediately jump ship for tomorrow either.
When I ask "Is this as good as it gets" I'm wondering if the musicians and the audience for what I want to do simply don't exist where I am. I'm wondering if I should just except the limitations of both.
On one hand no one was ever wildly successful by not trying to do something different, but on the other sometimes you are just rolling a boulder up hill with no end in sight.

 

[socialleper]

another thing to consider trying...covers...
If you won't play covers, you are cutting off a huge number of potential co-writers, bandmates etc...just because they play covers, doesn't mean they don't/can't create and write original music...lots of musicians are happy to do both (heck the Beatles were a cover band). The most productive original music bands I have been in paid the bills for studio and rehearsal time by playing cover gigs as well - and all that time on stage together made us a more cohesive unit when creating our own music...now we never got bigger than 10,000ppl in a crowd, but that was pretty darn good for a bunch of cover song playing guys with full-time day jobs.

I don't want to diverge into a whole originals v covers thing, but here is why I don't think it would work for me personally:
Audiences like hearing covers because they are songs they recognize, right? This sort of means that by default they have to be vanilla crowd pleasers. That's not where my musical tastes run. The sort of stuff I would be interested in covering doesn't have an audience any bigger than the audience for my original work, so what would that get me? If I spent my time learning covers I don't like, then that is worse that playing music I do like, albeit on an infrequent basis. That would be a worse situation than where I am now. I play for the emotional connection; no connection, no point.

 

[Panther]

People discuss the "greener grass" syndrome a lot when it comes to 9 - 5 day jobs; that you want to leave for something "better" yet all you hear from people you know is the same level of BS you experience at your current job. You want something else, but have found yourself jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
I wonder if the same is true for bands.
I'm starting to feel like my current project has reached terminal velocity, and I think the other members are thinking the same thing. That has lead to a lack of enthusiasm for it, which means less practice and fewer shows. After all, that costs money, and we aren't making any of it back.
So I started pondering the idea of looking for a second project, or replacement if things go totally sideways. Then I had a frightening\startling notion: what if there is no greener grass? What if this is as good as it gets? Out of all of the dozens of bands I've played with over the last few years, I could probably count the number I'd want to hear again on one hand.
To use an unpleasant metaphor, is it better to stay in an unhappy musical marriage rather than dive into a uncertain dating pool and run the risk of ending up alone?

It's exactly where I ended up. Great guys, but the costs were going up, the market is very small, not all the effort was there from some, and in the end I had to leave, despite having nothing since.

 

[bucephylus]

People discuss the "greener grass" syndrome a lot when it comes to 9 - 5 day jobs; that you want to leave for something "better" yet all you hear from people you know is the same level of BS you experience at your current job. You want something else, but have found yourself jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.
I wonder if the same is true for bands.
I'm starting to feel like my current project has reached terminal velocity, and I think the other members are thinking the same thing. That has lead to a lack of enthusiasm for it, which means less practice and fewer shows. After all, that costs money, and we aren't making any of it back.
So I started pondering the idea of looking for a second project, or replacement if things go totally sideways. Then I had a frightening\startling notion: what if there is no greener grass? What if this is as good as it gets? Out of all of the dozens of bands I've played with over the last few years, I could probably count the number I'd want to hear again on one hand.
To use an unpleasant metaphor, is it better to stay in an unhappy musical marriage rather than dive into a uncertain dating pool and run the risk of ending up alone?

IME, there are three kinds of success that can be achieved playing music.

1) Playing in an ensemble with a heavy following/buzz.

2) Playing with top flight players who have that ESP chemistry going on.

3) Playing in a commercially successful group.

The first case actually doesn’t require the third. The third will usually generate the first, or requires it, depending.

Anyhow, there are three dimensions to the picture. Regarding the economic part, one has to first understand that the business end of music is generally a pyramid structure; with a VERY few on top making obscene amounts of money and a huge population of legit talent, who were not at the right place at the right time just below them barely getting by. I played a lot of Jazz in Detroit in my early twenties; and my contemporaries who chose to stay with the game have earned enough to support themselves, but not have families.

If you truly seek a career in music, the smart play is a college degree and teaching, and at the college level, if possible; and then some gigging when time allows. Or, hone your chops, and get a pedigree studio spot; though those are a steep climb.

As time goes on, I am way more interested in #2. You keep looking for gigs, and you do run into it from time to time. But, that’s not related to money. OTOH, the money thing can kill it dead in a heartbeat.

So, as musicians, we all scuff by, trying to find that precarious balance between art and livelihood.

Curiously, I think many who “make it” financially in pop music end up incompletely satisfied. For example, American Pie was a huge commercial success; but, it would be some kind of he11 on earth to play that tune night after night, year after year, because that was your livelihood. No thanks.

You have to play music as a calling, not as a business. One of Duke’s quotes when asked about what he was going to do in retirement was, “Retire? To what?”

 

[blubass]

I play music because I love to play music. Getting in a room, or on a stage with guys gives me an outlet for creativity. I've done the signed band, touring thing. I actually quite enjoy that to be honest. At some point everyone gets that grass-is-greener feeling, even if it's just a fleeting thought.

Be absolutely honest with your bandmates. Hold a meeting, and gauge everyone's thoughts and interest individually. It may be an agreed upon end of the road, or it may just be one persons' stagnant feelings that are infecting the band. Maybe a couple people want to explore options, or just focus on home life and relationships. Just like a job, it's okay to have more than 1. However, just like a job they usually won't put up with you cutting time or effort in favor of the other. It's entirely possible to put 100% into 2 or more bands, or 1 band with an emphasis on outside activities. It's also okay to leave at any time, but it's usually appropriate to give a notice and/or take some time to tab or make notations of key things the band may want to keep. This all has to be articulated though in a clear, concise and non-judgemental manner.

If the consensus is to truck-on... then ask to create a mission statement the same way a business would. Basically, that's just a statement regarding the band's agenda or goals. If everyone is on board then post that statement somewhere in your practice space or put a post-it note on your amp where it's easily visible. It's not only a good tool for motivation, but also a legitimate tool to utilize when someone is overstepping their bounds or underperforming.

If the band is taking up a significant amount of time, regardless of how a person wants to interpret their band relationships and chemistry, it IS akin to a business in many aspects. It may not be profitable, or be an industry leader, but it needs to share some key aspects with a small business... There's rules and regulations that people must abide by; you can't just disappear or not put in the effort. You can't expect your place to be there when you feel like coming back if you haven't discussed it and received an approval to take a leave of absence. The other members are all equal parts and shouldn't be crapped on, berated, or undervalued in any way. Vacations are a fantastic way to give people their personal time and space, and sometimes it's best to make these mandatory. There's slow times for music, and busy times, just ensure that everyone is on the same page... band reconvenes on an agreed upon day and time ready to get back at it.

Best of luck, but to be honest... the grass under your feet is as green as you want it to be.

 

[socialleper]

IME, there are three kinds of success that can be achieved playing music.

1) Playing in an ensemble with a heavy following/buzz.

2) Playing with top flight players who have that ESP chemistry going on.

3) Playing in a commercially successful group.

The first case actually doesn’t require the third. The third will usually generate the first, or requires it, depending.

Anyhow, there are three dimensions to the picture. Regarding the economic part, one has to first understand that the business end of music is generally a pyramid structure; with a VERY few on top making obscene amounts of money and a huge population of legit talent, who were not at the right place at the right time just below them barely getting by. I played a lot of Jazz in Detroit in my early twenties; and my contemporaries who chose to stay with the game have earned enough to support themselves, but not have families.

If you truly seek a career in music, the smart play is a college degree and teaching, and at the college level, if possible; and then some gigging when time allows.

As time goes on, I am way more interested in #2. You keep looking for gigs, and you do run into it from time to time. But, that’s not related to money. OTOH, the money thing can kill it dead in a heartbeat.

So, as musicians, we all scuff by, trying to find that precarious balance between art and livelihood.

Curiously, I think many who “make it” financially in pop music end up incompletely satisfied. For example, American Pie was a huge commercial success; but, it would be some kind of he11 on earth to play that tune night after night, year after year, because that was your livelihood. No thanks.

You have to play music as a calling, not as a business. One of Duke’s quotes when asked about what he was going to do in retirement was, “Retire? To what?”

I would say it is more of a "calling." It is my way of expressing myself, and venting, but playing in front of an audience is one of the few real pleasures in my life. I know "Making it" isn't very realistic, especially since bands that tour and have international distribution in my genre still have regular 9-5 jobs. Making a living would be nice, but at this point I'd settle for breaking even.

 

[blubass]

[...] at this point I'd settle for breaking even.

There's a lot of bankrupt companies that would have gladly settled for breaking even if they had the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately music with a band is a hole. The amount of money you put into it is how far you dig down, always hoping for it to sprout and grow on its own. The key is to be thoroughly happy and content with every dollar you drop in, never expecting it back. To put it in context, it's like going on Vacation; you're spending money that you may never see again (gambling excluded as you have a small chance) but that money is providing you with entertainment. Playing music should be just as entertaining for the band as it is the audience.

 

[bucephylus]

I would say it is more of a "calling." It is my way of expressing myself, and venting, but playing in front of an audience is one of the few real pleasures in my life. I know "Making it" isn't very realistic, especially since bands that tour and have international distribution in my genre still have regular 9-5 jobs. Making a living would be nice, but at this point I'd settle for breaking even.

So, if you are focused on performance, pursue gigs that are performing.

Gigs come and go. Some are better than others. I think it is good to lead a group. Everyone should do it for a while. Too many years ago I fronted a group that was sort of a cross between the Worlds Most Dangerous Band (Letterman), and a Jazz Fusion group. In terms of getting gigs, it was very successful. I had a gas with it.

But, you move on. Being a bass player means you can play as a sideman, and let others shoulder some of the business end of things. Covers, Originals, Classical, Folk, Blues...whatever; after a while, it’s just different flavors of the same. I don’t think there is a “that’s all there is?” moment; because as soon as you think that’s it, then something else comes along. Focus on acquiring new and different skills. Reading. Improvising. Playing upright. Etc. That can open a lot of doors.

 

[sean_on_bass]

What you don't know always looks a bit attractive. I had always had dreams of being in a good, gigging band. I thought that would give me all the fulfillment i need in life and would love doing it.

Well after doing it for a couple years the reality sets in that it is not really all fun and games and that to be in a gigging band requires some work alongside the enjoyment. Now that i got a taste of it, i realize that's not really my dream at all and that i actually DON'T want to be gigging all the time. My new dream is now to produce my own music, on my terms and on my schedule. Who knows though, after doing it i may decide it isn't my thing either

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Being a hobby musician, I can only speak of the situation in a 9-5 career context. If you leave your job, you’d better be running TO something that you actually want instead of LEAVING something you don’t want. If you decide to leave something you don’t want as your primary motivation, you’re probably not looking to something you really do want, and you’re going to land in another subpar position.

Excellent advice, and on a personal level it does hit home. I have considered changing day jobs but have come to realize it's not so much because I want to go somewhere in particular or do something completely different. It'd most likely be more of the same, and in the end I may as well stay where I am and ride out the (temporary) negative feelings I am experiencing.

The people who tend to be most fulfilled are the hobbyist who get off on jam sessions with friends, or players who gain a sense of personal accomplishment from continuously expanding their craft. IMHO, If you are not motivated by the simple joy of playing with friends or driven to musical self actualization, you are likely to wind up totally disillusioned. YMMV

I think I am one of those. I have tried being in "Top 40" bands and it made me unhappy. I really do not like playing that sort of music, and the money just doesn't justify it for me. Right now I am in a blues/R&B band which will end up with a pretty eclectic and diverse set of cover tunes. We may end up writing some music ourselves, too. Will it be a success and get loads of gigs? I doubt it.

On that note, I reached out to a guitarist I know, who shares my love of smooth jazz/fusion. I want to start an (instrumental) band with him, where we can go wild on all the stuff we like. John Scofield, Larry Carlton, RockCandyFunkParty, Jin Chi .... Chances of ever gigging with that type of band are pretty small, but hey it'll be an incredibly fun musical outlet, and it will allow me to grow a LOT as a musician.

For me, that is what it comes down to. It's why I am playing fretless, learning walking bass and Latin Jazz rhythms, and working on mastering the pentatonic scale for soloing purposes. I don't play Latin, nor will I probably ever - but it helps with sight-reading and seems to improve my sense of time (and fretless playing) so I stick with it.

One aspect of my OP that has been over looked, and is a concern for me, is the state of the scene around me. I'm not 100% about everything my current band does, but it isn't like I've seen any other bands in our area that I would immediately jump ship for tomorrow either.

Are you looking in the right places? I sometimes go to see local bands that I really do not know, and am surprised at the response they get vs. type of music they play. Definitely not commercial or "vanilla". I still believe it's a huge TB misconception that every band should play Brown Mustang Alabama ...

I don't want to diverge into a whole originals v covers thing, but here is why I don't think it would world for me personally:
Audiences like hearing covers because they are songs they recognize, right? This sort of means that by default they have to be vanilla crowd pleasers.

See my previous point

If you truly seek a career in music, the smart play is a college degree and teaching, and at the college level, if possible; and then some gigging when time allows.

Sorry but to me, that would be a career in teaching, not in music.

 

[bucephylus]

...Sorry but to me, that would be a career in teaching, not in music.

Only if you let it.

 

[Kmonk]

I thought that was what we were going to do. Then when we played last week, the one of the guitarists said "We don't need to practice every week anymore. We will just practice once a month unless a show comes up."
The other guys seem OK with that. I objected to the "holiday break" and was over ruled. I feel like we are essentially on cruise control.

Might be time to move on.

 

[3Liter]

IMHO: On average, professional musicians are more likely to be frustrated than satisfied. Unfortunately musicians' needs and expectations are often totally unrealistic. Many spend years honing their craft only to be stuck playing music that is unchallenging and lacks creativity. To a musician, applause is like a drug, but it is wise to recognize this for the emotional trap it is. Unfortunately those who derive the joy of performance primarily from applause will find it to be a fickle mistress: Finding a good and reliable prescription for applause is difficult, and we become immune to the effect if we get too much. If we allow applause to function like an addiction, what we do when immunity sets in can involve self-destructive and anti-social behavior.

The people who tend to be most fulfilled are the hobbyist who get off on jam sessions with friends, or players who gain a sense of personal accomplishment from continuously expanding their craft. IMHO, If you are not motivated by the simple joy of playing with friends or driven to musical self actualization, you are likely to wind up totally disillusioned. YMMV

Interesting points. I am clearly a hobbiest, but I am addicted to the applause and the expansion of the craft as well. I never feel like I have done enough to get better to get there as opposed to the band I just left who was full of a bunch of guys who were just happy to "do it". So I have found myself on the outer orbit of a solar system I should be perfectly happy in.

What has contributed to this? I think the internet. I was in a band a long while back. I didn't know what I didn't know and I didn't care. I worked on what I could and played as best as I could. I should have played better, I should have worked harder. And then when faced with real musicians, I sort of set it all aside for a while. Anyhow. I now am better and still have a long ways to go. But worse, I was and have been with some lesser hacks and then I let the "good advice" from the internet eat away at me and pollute my mind that I should seek better. Now I'm on the outside looking in.

 

[socialleper]

Are you looking in the right places? I sometimes go to see local bands that I really do not know, and am surprised at the response they get vs. type of music they play. Definitely not commercial or "vanilla". I still believe it's a huge TB misconception that every band should play Brown Mustang Alabama ...

My observations about the originals market around me is based on who we've played with. 90% of the acts we've played with are forgettable for me.

 

[QORC]

there CAN be greener grass, yes, depending on how you define it. and of course depending on your situation, your talent and personality, some luck, and yeah where you live. there is no sure answer and I don't think a band is a marriage. if a particular band isn't working for you, move on. Yes, you have to take a chance. Maybe there are no better immediate options out there, but maybe there are too.

 

[QORC]

One more thought- whenever I really was frustrated about finding the "right" project, none seem to be around. But when you find a good one, it's like they come out of the woodwork all at once. The moment you throw in with a band, seems like 2-3 other interesting opportunities appear. Sort of like women, the most interesting ones appear when you least expect and when you simply aren't looking. that's life.

but I now feel so little loyalty to most band situations because I've seen how most musicians are. If I find something more suited to me, I'm gone. no matter what I'm doing. Nobody has your back. Only you have it. No matter what they say. My time in music has an end point. I no longer use "loyalty" or "I've been with them for x years" as a reason to stay in a situation that is not working for me.