Double Bass Is your amp hugging the floor or suspended above?

[BobDeRosa]

As you know, amplifying the DB is tricky for a lot of reasons, but I'm wondering whether today's amps are designed to produce their best sound when sitting directly on the floor. In other words, is contact with the floor a part of the amp's sound profile? Do they lose a sonic something by being placed on a chair or stand? Is the answer different depending on whether we're on a hollow stage floor or a solid surface?

Please don't give me the "whatever sounds best to you" answer because it's not me I'm worried about. It's what the audience is hearing in the mix.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[lurk]

I think upright bass is naturally a bit boomy, and the best way to get that natural sound is placing your amp on the floor. This is very tricky to do without "over booming" it, and not always the way to go.

 

[Martin Beer]

I tend to pop it on a chair, not so much with the intention of avoiding floor coupling, but because when it's firing past my ankles I miss a lot of mid and high end information that helps with intonation.
The optimum is going to vary with different setups, both in terms of low end response and how directional the mids and highs are. Mine's a little DIY ported 1x10" without a separate high end driver.

 

[tb-player]

I’m no sound expert but I always prefer an amp on the floor. On DB I typically run direct from the Realist pickup > preamp, so any onstage amp is mostly for me. I bought a QSC CP12 so it can kickback and hit me back in the face. Best of both worlds.

Not sure if that helps. It’s worked really well for me.

 

[james condino]

It depends upon the room and the cabinets I'm using that day; an open room with carpeted floors responds very different than concrete floor next to a brick wall.

 

[MuseChaser]

It very, VERY much depends upon the amp (early Acoustic Image or other downward-firing woofer design? Port location? Other drivers?), the room acoustics, the location of the amp (corner? Floor/wall junction? Proximity to wall(s)?), overall volume required, pickup used, genre of music....

No single answer will work. My Acoustic Image Coda sits on the floor, but I only like it for very quiet small group gigs. Genzler Acoustic Array Pro sits on a portable table about 20" off the floor for a nice, clean, clear sound audible evenly everywhere, and still enough bottom. For big band and large rooms, instead of the table, I put it on top of a BA10-2 cab for extra "feel" down low without having to play a lot louder.

 

[Ric Vice]

LIke others have noted, It really depends on the cabinet configuration. That said, if any of my amps are on the floor I use a Ampwedge or Thunderbolt Audio Little Wedge to elevate the front of the cabinet.

 

[Jazzdogg]

As you know, amplifying the DB is tricky for a lot of reasons, but I'm wondering whether today's amps designed to produce their best sound when sitting directly on the floor. In other words, is contact with the floor a part of the amp's sound profile? Do they lose a sonic something by being placed on a chair or stand? Is the answer different depending on whether we're on a hollow stage floor or a solid surface?

Please don't give me the "whatever sounds best to you" answer because it's not me I'm worried about. It's what the audience is hearing in the mix.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I play a 1x8 which is pole mounted above a 2x8. I get as much deep bass as I desire and I'm able to hear myself clearly. I use the variable HPF on my Acoustic Image Focus to control the lowest notes. Works great!

 

[Jeff Kissell]

If my amp is powering the room, it’s on the floor mostly. If it’s a stage/PA support situation (personal monitor) it’s up on a stand.
Acme B1 / Mesa Subway D-350

 

[Don Hergert]

Mine is a small combo bass amp, 4 x 4" speakers. Unless there are venue details that absolutely prevent it, I always put it up, at least at waist height, but preferably on a speaker stand at shoulder height. I've used it for indoor and outdoor venues very successfully at that height on the speaker stand. On the floor it just shoots sound at peoples' feet and legs.

I think that elevating is almost a requirement for small cab / small combo setups.

 

[Ric Vice]

The reasons I don’t usually elevate my amp up onto a chair is that they can easily be knocked over. With a smaller amplifier the minute you levitate the cabinet you loose bass response. So, it’s a trade off better clarity for less low end response. While there are cabinets (most notably the MAS 1/8 and especially the MAS 4x5.5) that aren’t really affected by raising them off the floor. Many less HI-Fi cabinets are. I used to always raise my cabinet up once I as a matter course. Now I use a cabinet wedge. Better clarity warmer bass.

 

[Wasnex]

I almost always elevate my cab. I also tilt my cab back to aim at my head.

Which you prefer will depend on what you want to hear. I want as much clarity and focus as I can get. If you prefer more of a thumpy, warm sound, you will probably prefer the speaker on the floor.

IMHO elevating and tilting the cab allow me to hear the detail in my tone at the lowest possible volume. I would rather be asked to turn up than begged to turn down. Also, I usually performed with full PA support, and keeping my stage volume low allows the PA to work better.

With upright I also feel that I have more gain before feedback with my cab elevated. This means I can turn up more before the interaction between the speaker and bass starts to significantly degrade my tone.


Many bassist hate elevating the cab. My advice: Try it both ways and judge for yourself. Consider using a situational approach. I.E tailor your rig configuration as appropriate to the setting.

 

[BobDeRosa]

It depends upon the room and the cabinets I'm using that day; an open room with carpeted floors responds very different than concrete floor next to a brick wall.

So in which of those scenarios would you leave it on the floor?

 

[LowG]

I interpreted the OP as a question about the intent of the designer. Are amps designed to sound best with the floor coupling?

 

[Wasnex]

So in which of those scenarios would you leave it on the floor?

Elevating the cab is probably more important next to a brick wall with a concrete floor.

Two assumptions:

1. Next to a wall you get 1/4 space loading which reinforces/boosts lower frequencies. The result is boom.

2. A concrete floor will reflect a lot more sound than carpet. It's more likely to produce a build up of reflected sound, which can mask your direct sound. The result is mud.

 

[Wasnex]

I interpreted the OP as a question about the intent of the designer. Are amps designed to sound best with the floor coupling?

I am sure some thought goes into it, but most bass cabs are not designed specifically for floor or elevated use. An exception: Acoustic Image designed cabs with down-firing woofers that really needed to be on the floor to produce the intended results. They didn't work well in more reverberant spaces.

 

[Don Hergert]

To be fair, I've never been what I'd consider an audiophile, judging tone coming from a speaker has never been easy for me. I can talk about acoustic instrument tone with certain instruments all day long, but I'm not good at getting into serious tone discussions for sound coming from a speaker.

When I speak of elevating my amp and getting good results, the reason is simply that when I ask random people at the back of the room or at the end of the outdoor performance area, they answer yes, they can hear it and it sounds ok. I don't generally ask them about tone. And also, that's performing with a primarily acoustic roots band where instruments may be mic'ed, a band that usually has no keys, drum or horns, and with voices that are all mic'ed through a limited PA, which means their mics are also picking up some of my amp output.

So really my answers may not completely apply to the majority of the folks here.

Ideally, I prefer just to plug into a full-on FOH and not use my amp at all, but that doesn't always happen.

 

[BobDeRosa]

I interpreted the OP as a question about the intent of the designer. Are amps designed to sound best with the floor coupling?

Yes, I want to know if amp designers assume that the floor will become part of the amp's sound profile. Or, would they design differently if they knew the cab would be suspended above the floor?

 

[Mark Karwan]

I’ve tried many times to elevate my GR bass NF 112 cab and it never sounds “right” to me. I don’t know if they specifically took floor coupling into account but it sounds best to me that way, with my old upright amplified via a pickup and mic blend, attempting to get a “natural” sound in the context of a drummerless acoustic band. I find the distance I stand from the cab makes a huge difference and I prefer to be about 6 feet in front of it. When space allows I also place it not directly behind me but kicked out a bit to get me side and toed in towards me. I might tilt it back just a small amount by placing my bow case underneath the front feet, or not.

 

[brianrost]

When using my AI Coda, it’s on the floor, but with the tilt legs aiming it up a bit and reducing the coupling to the floor.

When using my Bergantino HT112 cab, it’s up on a milk crate. I used to have it on the floor, but starting using the crate about three years ago.

In either case, it’s nice when there is enough room to get a few feet from the amp. On small, cramped “stages” I have more feedback problems.