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Jazz musicians are significantly overrated.

#241
riti said:
Just started reading this thread. Jeez, emotive!
I think the original question is well put. It IS funny how jazz musicians are so highly regarded, much more so generally than other musical styles. You may think this is unfair, but (from my experience) this is generally true.

I dont think this a reflection on the skill/talent of any musician (jazz or otherwise) but a reflection on the audience of that artist. Jazz 'tends' to be listened to older folks (no offence) more attuned to intricacies, whereas rock, metal, pop 'tends' to be listened to the younger amongst us who 'tend' to only be concerned with "can I dance to it". I'm not saying one is better than the other, it's just how I see it. A music-phile will be more likely to identify and praise a talented musician, than a kid who doesn't pick out a sublime bass riff.

What I'm saying is: we are to blame, not the artist.

Me done :)
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When you finish reading the thread you'll probably see this isn't about dance music on either side.
:)
 
#242
The general quality of all music has declined considerably in recent decades. Not saying you can't find quality but ya gotta search it out.

There was a time that pride in musicianship didn't have a genre. Listen to 70s funk or 60s Rock - I'd say the exceptions are Christian & Country - seems the best have gravitated there.

With all the time spent here ya coulda learned a jazz standard or even just listen to classics and ask why they are the classics.

Lazy doesn't get it.
 
#246
Kwesi said:
Completely subjective. Then again so is everything else in this thread... carry on.
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Completely agreed. The "quality" of modern music is relative. There is no right answer to anything in this thread.

I also had a good laugh at the "check this thread in 10 years post". Speed/thrash/tech metal has been around for over 30 years and just keeps getting more and more popular.

It's not going anywhere any time soon.

Neither is jazz, country, rock, classical, etc...I hope these things never go away. We'd be pretty bored if everyone liked the same things.
 
#247
I havent read through these. Too lazy.
Charlie Hunter is great but he's gotten a little soft since Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy. I wouldn't say he's overrated at all. If anything not recognized enough. Him & his crazy fan guitar/bass hybrids. He plays both guitar & bass at once ( for those who don't know).

How about John Zorn? Masada is an excellent & talented group playing a unique hybrid--Jewish jazz. They really cook. Not overrated.
That Kenny G lady is pretty good at soprano sax. Not an easy instrument to command. Too bad the music is muzak. Myoo-zack.

Generalizations.
 
#248
pnchad said:
The general quality of all music has declined considerably in recent decades. Not saying you can't find quality but ya gotta search it out.
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I disagree; there's more good music being made now than ever. A lot more. That said, the boom in tech that has enabled a lot more good music to get out there has also enabled a lot more not-so-good music to get out there. At least when the pathways to the media were few and fiercely guarded, music was subjected to a lot more vetting.
 
#250
pnchad said:
The general quality of all music has declined considerably in recent decades. Not saying you can't find quality but ya gotta search it out.

There was a time that pride in musicianship didn't have a genre. Listen to 70s funk or 60s Rock - I'd say the exceptions are Christian & Country - seems the best have gravitated there.

With all the time spent here ya coulda learned a jazz standard or even just listen to classics and ask why they are the classics.

Lazy doesn't get it.
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I kinda think it's funny you probably just put your favorite two genres on a pedestal. I don't care, just think its funny.

There's a lot of great music being made today though. You just have to dig a little and not let the radio find it for you.

I don't find 60's and 70's radio stations to be playin any better music than the top twenty stations. I find rush just as bad as lady gaga (let the hate begin haha)
 
#253
Of course some jazz guys are overrated, but most of those guys earn their reps. Jazz is extremely technical, but unlike most styles of tech metal, technicality is a means to an end, rather than an end in and of itself. Of course a lot of tech metal (I'm using that term to encompass both prog and more complex forms of death, thrash, and power metal) is good-- it was the first type of music that i personally started listening to-- but most of it is boring. Jazz is of course the same way (Sturgeon's law knows no bounds), but on average I tend to find it to be more slightly melodically and rhythmically interesting (YMMV, naturally).

Its not like jazz musicians are guaranteed a good rep either. Jazz critics have no problem with ripping apart anyone they think is boring. If anything, metal critics are more likely to give good reviews to mediocre bands (when is the last time you saw a metal site give any "true" metal band an openly bad review, no matter how generic or uninspired their music was?).

Also, good hard bop is more headbangin' than thrash could ever be.
 
#254
Tupac said:
Symphony X are really great aren't they? One of my favorites. Their guitarist does some pretty incredible stuff. And yes, jazz musicians are great don't get me wrong, but I just think there's more difficult stuff out there.
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Having done both prog and jazz, they are difficult in different ways. They can be equally demanding of your digital dexterity, but negotiating changes on the fly in a bebop setting is far different than the mostly set solos in prog. An average skilled rocker, given a few weeks' practice, can usually manage a decent rendition of your fave prog standard... but it will take him years of study to begin to approach effective soloing on, say, Giant Steps.
 
#257
I think I put Jazz musicians on a pedestal because they are very capable musicians who choose not to make good money & suffer for their art.

Its been proven time & time again that the less notes played the more money one makes. Pretty simple equation.
 
#258
Shakin-Slim said:
Oh God. You can't say 'jazz players are over rated'. There are a lot of jazz musicians, some are fantastic, some aren't. But the art form of jazz music requires years and years of training to get your foot in the door. For one thing, it's truly technically challenging. There's so much more to it than 7th chords. For another thing, you HAVE to be able to improvise. The whole thing is based on improvisation, and you have to be able to do it well, not just running scales like so many metal guitarists do, but creating something expressive that adheres to the harmony and breaks the harmony in the right places, that both supports and challenges the rhythm, hip sounds like substitutions and inversions. It's been at the centre of many artistic and social revolutions. Most often they aren't 'well respected because they're jazz musicians', but because they're incredible artists who play jazz. It's heartbreaking to see so many people not understand their country's most important contribution to the art world.

All this praise of metal bands based on how many time signatures they change and how fast it is is juvenile. Sure that's a difficult thing, but when people try to talk up their favourite metal bands those are the stock responses.
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Agreed
 
#260
ggunn said:
I disagree; there's more good music being made now than ever. A lot more. That said, the boom in tech that has enabled a lot more good music to get out there has also enabled a lot more not-so-good music to get out there. At least when the pathways to the media were few and fiercely guarded, music was subjected to a lot more vetting.
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Well, there is probably a big market for both types of music, so it's not too suprising both thrive in this global world of ours. But I would personally call them "sophisticated" and "not-so-sophisticated" music instead.
 

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