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Jazz musicians are significantly overrated.

#261
I'm afraid I was a bit late to share my opinion, but here goes:

When I was in college (majoring in sax, mind all of you), the two years of comm college I did (where I participated a about a year and a half in the jazz ensemble) it was good fun. Sometimes it was too chordy for my tastes, but overall I learned to improv, sightread well, and play a few good pieces. I even played some of the Charlie Parker Omnibook.

My jazz playing days were over when I transferred to my university, where "jazz is a big deal", and it was exclusive to what the school considered an elite of Jazz majors (up until about the point I graduated, there wasn't even a Jazz Education major; it was sound engineering, classical performance, Jazz performance, classical education, and music marketing).

Given that I had went to university, part of my curriculum was going to recital hours in the auditorium and the concept was, it was a thrown-in class, you had to complete a certain amount of hours of attendance, no bookwork or anything unless you were not meeting the hour requirements.

The classical stuff was great. Even the atonal **** was good. The bunch of times I attended Jazz rehearsals, it sounded opposite to me. A bunch of theory junkies that forgot emotion was a part of music, thought that soloing and improv was more important than the lead sheet, and used a lot of not-grooving groove that sounded way too technical for anyone "realistically mainstream" to enjoy.

In short, it was ok, but mental masturbation to show the professors "look what I can do!"

I'd take listening to a Death album (not the general genre, I mean Chuck Schuldner's band) any day of the week compared to a bunch of jazz pieces that were "complexly crafted with the emotion and the theory to translate the transitions of the chords" because frankly, it doesn't do anything but put someone to sleep.
 
#265
I'm a bass and guitar teacher with around 20 weekly students.

I love teaching rock, pop, country, funk, etc.

But I don't think my students really start to learn about and have a deeper understanding of music until we delve into jazz.

I have prepared many young people for their school jazz band programs over the years (jazz band leaders are always desperate for solid, well-grounded jazz guitarists and bassists), and these kids just know how to bring it. They combine their natural love for pop music with their jazz competence.

I think it rounds out a more complete music education.
 
#269
Let's just call it 'challenging' music to avoid the predudices obvious here.

Good ears are just like muscles if you dont challenge your ears you cannot develop well rounded musicality. In fact you don't even need to practice or try to play more challenging music. Just experiencing it by listening will broaden your references.

If your goal is to be a metal or country star it doesn't matter at all.

If however, you want to develop into a well rounded musician, you need to experience more.

And to the 'no emotion' poster above - I strongly disagree - listen to Blue in Green or 'Round Midnight by Miles (just listen) - I've heard them a 1000 times but in the right mood they still make me cry from the absolute beautify & perfection of execution.

As I said a while back, lazy don't cut it.
 
#270
pnchad said:
Good ears are just like muscles if you dont challenge your ears you cannot develop well rounded musicality. In fact you don't even need to practice or try to play more challenging music. Just experiencing it by listening will broaden your references.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, really? My common sense tells me that we all should probably do both (listening and practicing) to become better, not just one. Good thing about doing both is that each can be done at different times during the day (practice during a set time at home/ studio, listening pretty much everywhere).
 
#272
Start by listening - listen to stuff thats outside your comfort zone & yes your playing will also improve. You may not ever aspire to play a certain style bit WHAT you listen to does expand your palet.

I'm a jazz player - 45 yrs trying to get better & I have much more to do. Levon Helm died yesterday - perfect example - not the style I aspire to play but he took all styles of American roots music, without regard to tags & titles, and created beautiful classics with Dylan, the Band, etc.

Spice
 
#275
pnchad said:
The general quality of all music has declined considerably in recent decades. Not saying you can't find quality but ya gotta search it out.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with this. There has always been plenty of crap music produced. It appears that music was better in the "old days" because only the good music (in general) survived. In 20 years, most of the crap that's being produced now will have been disposed of and we'll only be listening to the good stuff.
 
#276
That's true too. Lots of crappy music always.

But look at what passes for the hits in any given time frame.

Could have a lot to do with corporate control of distribution as well but the difference in the approach of the musicians and their values matters.
 
#277
ggunn said:
I don't agree with it and I don't need to qualify it with "necessarily". Who is scorpionldr to declare what is listenable and what is not - to me? To my ears, a great number of very listenable musicians are not only not young, they are no longer alive.
Click to expand...

Oh, certainly I must be hoisting myself to the level of pompous @$$ because I actually talk about a form of music being listenable or not.

Listenable-the ability of the mind the follow and maintain interest in the music composed.

Jazz- a genre with a few big names out there but overall several players get carried away with the science and theory of music rather than the melody.

Bach wrote music at the age of 14, whch he was awarded a scholarship for, would you ever consider him overrated?

Mozart was composing music by the age of 12, possibly even before, would you say he's overrated?

And yet here we sit on an internet forum talking about whether heavy metal or Jazz utilizes more skill or is more entertaining or what in the hell you'd like to use to bash the other genre.

The abilities of the young, whether it was 4 years ago or 400 years ago, have always proven to gain a following playing music. You can't deny younger minds are more flexible.

The work ethic of the young has deteriorated some, yes. I'd say say the ability to gain talents and write music hasn't.

So pretty please excuse me if I've said anything that might actually cause your mind to expand.
 
#278
I played and studied jazz for years when I was in the USAF Band, but now that I'm out, I really don't play jazz at all. I'm playing mostly classic rock and country covers. But studying jazz has made me a much better and well rounded musician. I plan to continue studying jazz whether or not I ever play another jazz gig. It opens your ears and challenges your chops.
 

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