I use jazz theory as a fundamental in learning music theory, practicing standards during my private time. I don't really see it as "one or another"
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Jazzers vs rockers
- Thread starter stratovani
- Start date
You'd be surprised how many rockers, especially in the extreme genres, have jazz degrees or heavily studied theory.
If you want to rock, funk, roll or whatever, your best and quickest path to competency and excellence is to study the basics of harmony, composition, technique, etc. I have a lot of friends that have jazz degrees. Their rock bands are fantastic and I learn so much when I'm included in those bands since I'm not coming at it from their side of the fence. What we can get done with two hours in the studio and a few charts is more than some "real" bands can accomplish in a year when they're "keeping it real, maaan".
If you want to rock, funk, roll or whatever, your best and quickest path to competency and excellence is to study the basics of harmony, composition, technique, etc. I have a lot of friends that have jazz degrees. Their rock bands are fantastic and I learn so much when I'm included in those bands since I'm not coming at it from their side of the fence. What we can get done with two hours in the studio and a few charts is more than some "real" bands can accomplish in a year when they're "keeping it real, maaan".
Here's a good video for case-in-point. You can't tell me these guys didn't study jazz at one point in time or another.
^ Not the best examples by (m)any of those guys, and half the DM bands from Quebec should arguably be on there, but yeah many such bands have at least one studied guy in the band, usually the main writer, and the rest work hard to keep up.
That was the case in my experience doing that type of stuff. Three jazz degrees and me. In some of their other bands everyone had a jazz degree. The music didn't necessarily reveal it, but the facility with which they could create and perform it was a real eye opener. Same thing I've experienced with these guys when doing pop covers, funk, reggae, you-name-it.
That first one in the video, Alex Webster of Blotted Science ... I believe that's a Cannibal Corpse clip being heard, not Blotted Science. The architect and writer for Blotted Science is Ron Jarzombek who replied in one interview (as has his well-known and extremely skilled "rocker" drummer brother said similarly in interviews), "About me being theoretically advanced, for me that's the only way to go. The more theory the better. Learn what you can, then abuse it."
That was the case in my experience doing that type of stuff. Three jazz degrees and me. In some of their other bands everyone had a jazz degree. The music didn't necessarily reveal it, but the facility with which they could create and perform it was a real eye opener. Same thing I've experienced with these guys when doing pop covers, funk, reggae, you-name-it.
That first one in the video, Alex Webster of Blotted Science ... I believe that's a Cannibal Corpse clip being heard, not Blotted Science. The architect and writer for Blotted Science is Ron Jarzombek who replied in one interview (as has his well-known and extremely skilled "rocker" drummer brother said similarly in interviews), "About me being theoretically advanced, for me that's the only way to go. The more theory the better. Learn what you can, then abuse it."
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Jazz and rock merged in the seventies. They called it "fusion." The results were disastrous. Millions were killed, and quite a number of people were maimed. Always keep your jazz and your rock separate. There is nothing that can come from learning jazz when you want to be a rocker; in fact, it will impede your ability to rock.
they have more in common with classical music than jazz. If you dig a little in classical music composer and what ground braking thing they did, you will hear a lot of stuff. Like Blotted Science use a lot of Dodecaphonism and Serialism which are concept from classical music and never went outside of that little circle.
I went to school for music back in the 70's, theory helped me be a better guitar player. (BUT) being in a rock band , some songs, theory went out the window. I'm glad jazz makes sense to me but I'm a rocker. Power cords vs. stacking cords.
Jazz vs Rock bassist:
Jazz bassist is part of the group. " I loved the intonation of that last piece"
Rock bassist is part of the low end. " Hey dude , can you ask the guitar player for me"
Just kidding, I am semi-new to the bass but am trying to learn how to play it properly. Before, I just root noted it now I'm working on the rest of the notes in the measure. People would be surprised with the tunes I have found just practicing scales.
All in all, playing simple will impress the average person in the crowd, I want to impress the musicians in the crowd.
Jazz vs Rock bassist:
Jazz bassist is part of the group. " I loved the intonation of that last piece"
Rock bassist is part of the low end. " Hey dude , can you ask the guitar player for me"
Just kidding, I am semi-new to the bass but am trying to learn how to play it properly. Before, I just root noted it now I'm working on the rest of the notes in the measure. People would be surprised with the tunes I have found just practicing scales.
All in all, playing simple will impress the average person in the crowd, I want to impress the musicians in the crowd.
"Here's an idea. Create a book with an explanation of basic chord theory, plus 1000 exercises consisting of chord changes with rhythms written in "x" notation. The student's job is to come up with a bass line that fits the written rhythm and changes, then practice the hell out of it. I think this would result in developing a knowledge of chord theory plus a large mental vocabulary from which to create ad lib rock bass lines."
I think I just finished this book - not a 1000 lessons but certainly A LOT of them. Great book; Building Walking Bass Lines by Ed Friedland
I think I just finished this book - not a 1000 lessons but certainly A LOT of them. Great book; Building Walking Bass Lines by Ed Friedland
I Never aspired to be a Jazz player.
But i studied with some monster players....it raised my expectations of what I should/could be capable of playing on the Bass.
At the same time, I studied RECORDS.
If you know enough about the Theory to be able to learn and UNDERSTAND how the Bass lines on your favorite records 'work' in the songs AND you underdatnda enough about the mechanics of Bass technique to have a general idea of how they are making that particular sound...you're good.
At the end of the day, I just need to be good enough to play whatever pops into my head.
Luckily for me, the things that pop into my head aren't EXTREMELY chops oriented.
But i studied with some monster players....it raised my expectations of what I should/could be capable of playing on the Bass.
At the same time, I studied RECORDS.
If you know enough about the Theory to be able to learn and UNDERSTAND how the Bass lines on your favorite records 'work' in the songs AND you underdatnda enough about the mechanics of Bass technique to have a general idea of how they are making that particular sound...you're good.
At the end of the day, I just need to be good enough to play whatever pops into my head.
Luckily for me, the things that pop into my head aren't EXTREMELY chops oriented.
"There's something I'm just not understanding. Just about every online bass instruction place I've been to seems to be aimed at jazz bassists and aficionados. There doesn't seem to be much geared to the rock bassist. "
Rockers are too busy Rockin'...?
Rockers are too busy Rockin'...?
You never heard that knowing music theory will hinder your creativity ? well this is that kind of thinking that let rocker learn by ear and obviously rock music is pretty much dead, no one talk about rock music that came out this year ... they talk about what came out in the 70s ...
As a rock cover band, I've been reading tabs on the songs we play. Some are easy and some are not. At this time, I have been studying "Building walking bass lines" and Scotts bass lessons vids. I'm too new to the bass to stray off of the tabs but have added 3rds and 5ths when able. I'm sure some of the bass lines from the classic rock we play have roots in jazz, I just haven't had time to sort them out yet.
It all depends on how far you want to go. Some say "that's too hard and too much work" and others would say "What next".. It is all up to you, no one else. Learning jazz as a rocker could add some cool licks if a jam breaks out.
It all depends on how far you want to go. Some say "that's too hard and too much work" and others would say "What next".. It is all up to you, no one else. Learning jazz as a rocker could add some cool licks if a jam breaks out.
This has been an interest of mine for a long time. Obviously I've written a fair amount about jazz playing, among other styles, but I've always been fascinated with finding educational approaches that are directed toward superstitious rock and blues players - you know, the ones that think learning about music will somehow cripple their ability to "feel" it, or perhaps stunt their "creativity." Although I had a classical upright background on bass, I was a teenaged blues/rock guitarist (sounds like a horror movie) and I learned it all the same way everyone else did - by ear, picking things up off records, and playing a lot. I remember that well, and while my classical training helped me read music, it never helped me understand what the hell I was playing. So... as most of my students over the years have been rock players, I deal with this all the time. Not everyone wants to learn jazz, not everyone has the patience to get in there and sweat over music they don't like, will never play, and don't grasp. I've spent a lot of time coming up with ways to make things palatable and accessible without watering them down... My book "Building Rock Bass Lines" was an attempt at taking the basic principles of "Building Walking Bass Lines" and applying them to rock-oriented progressions and rhythms... while not a perfect book - I think there's a lot of good info and examples in that one. Also, "Pentatonic Scales For Bass" has a lot of info geared toward rock players... Maybe one day I'll really try to tackle this... but by then... who would buy a "rock" bass book written by some 60-year old dude?
but out of the rubble emerged rockers who knew how to play,and jazzers who could rock.....check out mahavisnu orch,or mclaughlins other stuff.....larry coryell's spaces.....
