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Jeff Berlin Discussing Music Ed Part II

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#421
Jeff, just thinking about the time it takes, a part of me agrees that you get an awful lot of your musical knowledge with two to four years intense study. When you mention college being 4 years, I know you may realize that to get into college, a student has probably studied an instrument since 5th grade, this adds up to 12 years study! About the same amount of study required to be a doctor?
Our pay scales differ quite a bit!

Jeff, here is a question for you and where we might have had a misunderstanding regarding some things like Pat Martino does.

I took a C triad and D triad and wrote them out, alternating each one through inversions. Now it looks like Am7 and D7 are logical uses for this combination of notes. If I were to take this bit of an academic exercise and run it through the changes of a tune (I've transposed to all 12 keys in a cycle 4 exercise already) I could use the same group of notes through a ii V in G. Now by all appearances I may be ignoring the changes and am just using the same device through two chords. I've never worried about this before but... you do emphasize playing through each chord. I've always assumed this is not the same thing as just running scales, it's a consequence of chords sharing like notes. Is this correct?

Additionally you might want to check out the" First time doing a musical" thread here to see the state of education.
 
#422
JeffBerlin said:
Great comments!

Music would solve everybody's musical question inside of a year or two. Even a typical college offers 4 year courses. What's a couple of years of great music lessons that would prevent the musical confusion that most guys over 40 have, had they not gone and learned how to play properly when they were young. Old guys? If you are here, please chime in about this!
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I'm well over 40 (more on the quickly approaching 50 side). I recently took up the instrument (< 1 yr). Was told by a couple of bass instructors that "the notes are not that important". I don't know enough to know whether that is true or not, but I am still taking the time to learn theory, learn to sight-read, and understand the underlying principles and history of the music I am trying to learn. I am also learning keyboard and both treble and bass clef (since that is recommended in The Jazz Theory Book).

Jeff, I'm in Florida (Jax) and would go to your school if I had a chance. I'm just not able (financially speaking) to do so yet (economy, family and children), but I might make the trip down to the Tampa area of of these days and try you guys out.
 
#423
I'm only thirty-four but this thread has opened my eyes to some principles that i wish i had learned years ago because with the right information and some diligence, improvement is guaranteed. People see their musical heroes as mystical, superiorly gifted beings but fail to realise that they only see the product of a lot of hard work and not the work that got said musical hero to that point. While talent undoubtedly plays a huge role and some guys are innovators who are "destined for greatness", all the people we look up to worked hard to hone their skills. Musical development is available to anyone with the right aptitude, who is willing to put in a bit of time and seek out the right information. I've spoken to so many people after gigs who say "if only" and seem full of regrets about not taking music more seriously but the fact is it's not as hard or complicated as people think.
 
#424
JeffBerlin said:
Your music teacher is a freak, a rarity, an oddity! Why? Because he knows how to teach and show you musical things. THis puts in inot the greatest musical minority in America; he's a guy who knows musich and wants to teach it. What an oddball!
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I'm sorry to inform you that this won't make the situation in America any better, since we're both in Norway.

:D

But yeah, it's rare here too. Unless you study on conservatory level, or one of the few good music schools, chances are you won't learn anything valuable at all. Of course there's private lessons, but they usually cost a LOT, much more than any teen can afford. Unless you choose one of the guys who give un-musical lessons, of course.

I remember one guy wanted keyboard lessons from me. I can play pretty much anything, but I don't have the skills to teach at all. I still can't read properly. But he insisted, and all I could do was to show him a few basic things, proper technique, and that's it. He also insisted on paying me, wich felt very wrong for me, knowing this wasn't a proper lesson.

Seems like all the famous players teach these days, but very few have anything valuable to teach, except for experience on the road.

No, I'm not saying I'm famous, only the most famous person in this chair right now. :D
 
#426
Freddels said:
I just checked out the website for the Players School b/c you mentioned that the 1-week intensive is offered twice a year but there's no mention of that on your site. It would be helpful for us working stiffs to be able to plan out as far in advance as possible for time off to do something like this. If you know when the dates would be for the next year or so, it would be helpful to be able to see that.

Also, the accommodations situation . . . since many of us don't know the area, it would be helpful to know if any of those hotels are within walking distance (and safe) or if it would be absolutely necessary to rent a car.
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OK. Thank you for the info.
 
#428
Smallmouth_Bass said:
A great player doesn't necessarily mean they'll be a great teacher.
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What Smallmouth said is almost totally true! It takes certain skills and repertoir to show somebody else how to get better. Most bassists don't have these skills including some of the famous ones. Playing doesn't mean that you can show somebody how. This is why I ignore practically anything that I hear inregards to good musical advice from some colleagues; they mean well, but these guys never give meaningful homework and barely, if ever, even mention the word "music" itself when offering bass players advice on how to play.
 
#429
JeffBerlin said:
What Smallmouth said is almost totally true! It takes certain skills and repertoir to show somebody else how to get better. Most bassists don't have these skills including some of the famous ones. Playing doesn't mean that you can show somebody how. This is why I ignore practically anything that I hear inregards to good musical advice from some colleagues; they mean well, but these guys never give meaningful homework and barely, if ever, even mention the word "music" itself when offering bass players advice on how to play.
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This is really key.
I spent so much time in my earlier days with guys telling me I "NEEDED" to work with a metronome..
It was always against my "gut-feeling" about how I should practice.
Even when I thought there was something "Wrong" with my intuition.
I NEVER learned anything worth a darn trying to keep time with a metronome..
Thanks...I knew I was right all along...:bassist:

edit: Practicing out of time always works for me.
 
#430
Jim Campbell said:
remember that jamerson came from the jazz db world and knew this stuff
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j.j. is a perfect example of jeff´s teachings... ...if you learned music "well" you can do everything with it. if you listen to j.j. lines in those songs you can hear that he has absolute freedom to do whatever he want´s to do and he can do this spontaneously. take "what´s goin´on", i dont´t believe that all those "little things" he does are composed. he just knows the song, knows the musical principles behind it and knows how to represent the chords in a musical way....
 
#432
bench said:
j.j. is a perfect example of jeff´s teachings... ...if you learned music "well" you can do everything with it. if you listen to j.j. lines in those songs you can hear that he has absolute freedom to do whatever he want´s to do and he can do this spontaneously. take "what´s goin´on", i dont´t believe that all those "little things" he does are composed. he just knows the song, knows the musical principles behind it and knows how to represent the chords in a musical way....
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+1. Studio bass players, of which Jamerson is the ultimate example, have to have amazing reading chops, ability to transpose on the fly if the singer wants the song 1/2 step lower, improvise a new part when the producer suddenly doesn't like the written part, play virtually all musical styles, and still have somewhat of a personality of their own- in other words they have to fully know their S***
FYI, I have the Standing in the Shadows of Motown book and CD, and there are several interviews with other funk brothers, and they say that Jamerson's charts usually just had the chords. He came up with his own parts most of the time on the fly. A work of art like the bass line to "What's Going On" or "how long has that evening train been gone" doesn't come easy. You have to keep in mind that after 12 hours of recording session, Jamerson and the other funk brother played a JAZZ gig at the Chit Chat most nights. So he was playing something like 15-16 hours per day, and kept that up that pace for something like 10 years.
That amount of experience, combined with ludicrous natural talent=Jamerson. Of course you can't forget that Jamerson started out on upright and referred to guess who as his main influence-Ray Brown!
 
#433
Hi Jeff,
Has The Player's School considered providing webcam lessons or a series of correspondence lessons? What is your general feeling in regards to the effectiveness of a correspondence style of learning as opposed to one on one with an instructor assuming the lesson content is quality?

All the best,
Tim
 
#434
bench said:
j.j. is a perfect example of jeff´s teachings... ...if you learned music "well" you can do everything with it. if you listen to j.j. lines in those songs you can hear that he has absolute freedom to do whatever he want´s to do and he can do this spontaneously. take "what´s goin´on", i dont´t believe that all those "little things" he does are composed. he just knows the song, knows the musical principles behind it and knows how to represent the chords in a musical way....
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Good point! Jamerson invented those lines out of his knowledge of music, instrument (he was a trained double bassist) and knowledge of style. He is a living example of why knowing your stuff will get you what you want, but, not know it puts you on Talkbass as a talker. Blues bassists are nearly always musically incapable, except to only function in one style, one way and mostly over one central key change. Not all of them, just most of them. If these guys got a musical education, they could still be playing the Blues but also be playing a whole lot more.
 
#435
sedgwick1489 said:
Hi Jeff,
Has The Player's School considered providing webcam lessons or a series of correspondence lessons? What is your general feeling in regards to the effectiveness of a correspondence style of learning as opposed to one on one with an instructor assuming the lesson content is quality?

All the best,
Tim
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It is OK. Maybe someday I can arrange for something like this, an en masse proadcast. It wouldn't allow me to address anything specific that relates to each bass player. But enough general information could be generated to make this a worth while event.

Does anybody know how this can be done, where I could do a world wide internet broadcast and also receive questions to answer? How is this done? If you know, please send me the particulars because maybe I can make this happen.
 
#437
Already In Use said:
Question Jeff..any plans to do on location seminars for the ones that cant get away to your location in Fl? Thanks for being here.
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The logistics make this difficult. At The Player School of Music, the entire event is under control. I know where the music is, students have rooms to practice in, the motels are around a mile away, and all the teachers are here already.

I really don't see the difficulty about reserving a week's worht of time and hopping on a plane for around $400 and fly here to learn enough about music that will keep you busy for months afterward. This is a week we are talking about. It seems odd that some people need to plan two years in advance to reserve a week.
 
#439
JeffBerlin said:
It is OK. Maybe someday I can arrange for something like this, an en masse proadcast. It wouldn't allow me to address anything specific that relates to each bass player. But enough general information could be generated to make this a worth while event.

Does anybody know how this can be done, where I could do a world wide internet broadcast and also receive questions to answer? How is this done? If you know, please send me the particulars because maybe I can make this happen.
Click to expand...

Using something like Skype would allow you to address players one-on-one. There are other online applications out there that businesses use to hold video conferences from multiple locations. Some are free and some are not.
 
#440
jallenbass said:
Using something like Skype would allow you to address players one-on-one. There are other online applications out there that businesses use to hold video conferences from multiple locations. Some are free and some are not.
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One on one only happens in my lesson room at The Players School. What I wanted to do was to do a world-wide bass broadcast. Is this possibile??

Also, another question: I didn't see last night's Grammys. Did anybody see it from top to bottom? Here is my question: How many instrumental solos were performed on the show. I know that there were live musicians playing background, but how many FEATURED SOLOs in any of the performances that you saw took place? Thank you all.
 
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