I’ve read, from multiple sources over the years, that you’re hearing was culled from three separate takes and edited together.
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John Paul Jones + Jimmy Page
- Thread starter Raman
- Start date
Hey! Let's poop on jimmy page 40 plus years after his band has disbanded. Bravo TB, bravo.
These are hardly fresh takes on Page. Page being sloppy and Zeppelin being brilliant aren't mutually exclusive, at least to me.
I agree, but I remember these conversations from 30 some odd years ago
Not fer nuthin, but if you can get yourself a copy of Mobile 5-13-73, it has what could be the best sound for JPJ of any of the show I've heard.
I'm not much of a Zeppelin fan, but I have to defend Page. This obsession with squeaky clean technique seems to have arisen in the Yngwie/Van Halen neo-classical shredder era, and it's totally anti-rock 'n' roll and anti-blues to me. It's like when people complain that Hendrix was sometimes out of tune. Or that Charlie Parker's reeds occasionally squeaked. You're focusing on THAT?? 
IMO, that depends on the genre. An Ariana Grande track where she's egregiously sharp or flat on a lot of notes would be criminal.
But in rock, blues, folk, etc., a lot of the time imperfections are allowed to pass if the feel and energy are good.
I think it was John McLaughlin who said that he preferred hearing a musician really reach for something and fall a bit short, than hear that musician play it safe. I like the "Heartbreaker" solo because you can tell that Page is really reaching for something (and falling a bit short).
I want to hear Ariana Grande sing the way she sings, and she can sing very, very well...with or without studio gadget help.
On the other hand, the amount of stuff they had to do to make Madonna or Britney Spears sound something like a singer is just wrong.
I like to see the chips fall where they may with recordings, if something is good it's good and if it's not then we can all hear that it's crap.
With great guitar players like Stevie Ray or Jimmy Page or Jimi Hendrix or Mick Taylor or Jim McCarty or Steve Howe I want to hear the brilliance and the small imperfections that come with the brilliance.
Same goes for singers like Sinead O'Conner or Joni Mitchell or Ricki Lee Jones or Patti Griffin, I want to hear what they actually sound like in their recordings.
I agree 100%, and I didn't mean to pick on Ariana Grande. I just quickly thought of her as an example of someone working in the broad field of modern, very commercial pop music, where a "warts and all" approach would sound extremely non-idiomatic, even if you and I would prefer it.
And now, you can also do Noel Redding right nextthread!
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/noel-redding-the-greatest-bassist-who-never-was.1304133/
Sad thing with topics like this, that it proves, that most people, who related to such art as music should just stay away from any form of art, and find another hobby.
Value of peace of art is so far away from this topic as it could be. (Not negative to OP, but rather to "guitarist", which he refers)
It like you hear from some people, that expressionists "sloppy painters". But at least these people are not painters by themselves.
Value of peace of art is so far away from this topic as it could be. (Not negative to OP, but rather to "guitarist", which he refers)
It like you hear from some people, that expressionists "sloppy painters". But at least these people are not painters by themselves.
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So all art needs to be appreciated by everyone the same way. Doesn’t work that way. Not every artist is great just because they are an artist. I don’t have to appreciate Page in all his sloppy glory. You do? Great but don’t tell me I have no business being near or involved in art because we disagree.
Ah, it'a good to see that the old "no person may express critique or preferential statement towards any artist unless they too have produced great, enduring, and popular art" position still endures. 
Ah, it'a good to see that the old "no person may express critique or preferential statement towards any artist unless they too have produced great, enduring, and popular art" position still endures.
No. Pastorius is peace of poopie, and this is ok for me. So, please keep your childish arguments with you.
You’re wrong and you’re welcome. Have a good one, Sport.
I very much agree. Artificial perfection removes so much of the human element, I can't stomach such music at all. That is one reason I love listening to old jazz records from the 1950s/1960s, you hear whole takes done live in the studio and the players react to each other in real time - I find that refreshing and much more interesting to listen to. Even the mistakes and flaws in the recording- as an example, the Money Jungle album by Duke Ellington done in the early 1960s. Duke on piano, Charlie Mingus on bass and Max Roach on drums - true jazz giants. The piano is slightly out of tune and Mingus's intonation when he plays upper-range bass fills is far from perfect. Those flaws don't diminish my enjoyment of the music at all.There is so much music that "has been made perfect" in the studio that is painful to listen to.
Relying on modern technology to fix your voice and fix your timing and make your music sound like a machine, should be criminal in the music world.
Lots of rock music (from blues music) is imperfect and I like it that way, if you want perfect music there is lots of it out there that I can barely stomach.
Bands that can't go onstage without lots of backing tracks to help them play a live show should be criminal in the music world.
Bands that have to hire ghost musicians to play and sing from behind the magic curtain to get through a live show should be criminal in the music world.
It's all a matter of taste and Led Zeppelin music tastes good.
