Jule Amps Monique part 4

[BurningSkies]

After a couple more hours of messing around with it, even with my relatively hot output passive P, the 'out' input boost setting is the thing with the P for sure. I hear and feel what everyone has been talking about with the sensitivity. That should IMO probably be the default setting, like other amps with a 'padded' option when needed. No big deal on that.

With the Roscoe (which I have set to the identical output level as my Nordy P), the default 'non boosted' setting sounds great. So, in a way, I guess Jule's idea of active/passive in this case makes sense. It is surely not just a simple pad (or I guess I should say, it doesn't really act like one). Lots of tonality variation in there.

My P is nicely growling and grunting, without sounding like it has 'added in effect distortion' for lack of a better term. Just fat and good, with lots of articulation and low end. Dig it.

Monique's dual personality...the difference between the 'nice girl' and the 'naughty girl'. Both are useful and appropriate in different situations and both can be fun in different ways.

 

[maisbass]

I've been a passive observer on this thread so far but I feel the need to interject here. Lifting pin one on one end of a balanced line doesn't make the balanced signal more susceptible to anything. By definition, a balanced setup will automatically reject anything picked up along the cable (assuming a decent twisted pair) by virtue of common-mode rejection at the mixer input. The pin one connection in a mic cable is only a shield and assuming no need for phantom power should only be connected at one end. Leaving pin one connected on your amp's DI just connects the chassis of your amp to the chassis of the mixing desk and if they aren't powered from the same place or have a low impedance ground path between their chassis (what's the plural of chassis? ) there's the potential for ground loop-injected noise. he default setting for an on board DI should be pin one lifted as there's no need for it given a balanced output.

In theory this is true about a balanced signal, and I do agree. But the real world is not always the case. You're assuming that every place is going to have the perfect conditions, supreme cable, etc. Even sometimes having those perfect conditions, cabling you still experience problems.

I've done events for news organizations in Central Park in NYC where we had these very problems. We couldn't even run mic level 50 feet because we were picking up a Spanish radio station via RF and we were using mogami braided cable. So these problems do arise. In this instance we had to convert the mic signal to line level via FP23's right off the mics in order to stop this.

What about cell phone chatter? I'm sure everyone has heard this through their computers. This also used to happen with balanced cable out in the field due to the transmitters on cell phones being so powerful and the lack of regulation by the FCC. The audio industry is being strangled in this field because they have to play by the rules, yet the big cable and cell phone companies do not follow the regulations set by the FCC when manufacturing these devices. They step all over everything.

The purpose of my last post was to merely suggest leaving the ground on your DI lifted to avoid getting hit with phantom power. And sometimes you can't do this as I and you noted due to ground loops, power, etc. and that what i was eluding to as well. That was all.

I wasn't looking into getting into an audio debate here in this forum. I believe my advice for leaving your ground lifted on your bass DI was sound advice. No pun intended.

 

[John D Harris]

Monique's dual personality...the difference between the 'nice girl' and the 'naughty girl'. Both are useful and appropriate in different situations and both can be fun in different ways.

Sounds like my kind of girl!

 

[Mark Reccord]

In theory this is true about a balanced signal, and I do agree. But the real world is not always the case. You're assuming that every place is going to have the perfect conditions, supreme cable, etc. Even sometimes having those perfect conditions, cabling you still experience problems.

I've done events for news organizations in Central Park in NYC where we had these very problems. We couldn't even run mic level 50 feet because we were picking up a Spanish radio station via RF and we were using mogami braided cable. So these problems do arise. In this instance we had to convert the mic signal to line level via FP23's right off the mics in order to stop this.

What about cell phone chatter? I'm sure everyone has heard this through their computers. This also used to happen with balanced cable out in the field due to the transmitters on cell phones being so powerful and the lack of regulation by the FCC. The audio industry is being strangled in this field because they have to play by the rules, yet the big cable and cell phone companies do not follow the regulations set by the FCC when manufacturing these devices. They step all over everything.

The purpose of my last post was to merely suggest leaving the ground on your DI lifted to avoid getting hit with phantom power. And sometimes you can't do this as I and you noted due to ground loops, power, etc. and that what i was eluding to as well. That was all.

I wasn't looking into getting into an audio debate here in this forum. I believe my advice for leaving your ground lifted on your bass DI was sound advice. No pun intended.

I didn't mean to be adversarial, either.

I've done plenty of gigs in RF unfriendly places (NYC, downtown Tokyo, London etc.) and I've honestly never run into mic lines picking up radio or cell chatter. 25' of mic cable on stage into 250' of multicore out to the console. Never a hitch, so what you're describing does seem a bit strange to me. Even under those extreme conditions there's no advantage to grounding both ends of a mic cable's shield unless the mixer's grounding scheme is abysmally awful.

Clearly, if the DI signal is quieter with pin one connected then you should do that. In my experience that hasn't been the case very often, if ever.

I'll go away now.

 

[Jazzdogg]

In theory this is true about a balanced signal, and I do agree. But the real world is not always the case. You're assuming that every place is going to have the perfect conditions, supreme cable, etc. Even sometimes having those perfect conditions, cabling you still experience problems.

I've done events for news organizations in Central Park in NYC where we had these very problems. We couldn't even run mic level 50 feet because we were picking up a Spanish radio station via RF and we were using mogami braided cable. So these problems do arise. In this instance we had to convert the mic signal to line level via FP23's right off the mics in order to stop this.

What about cell phone chatter? I'm sure everyone has heard this through their computers. This also used to happen with balanced cable out in the field due to the transmitters on cell phones being so powerful and the lack of regulation by the FCC. The audio industry is being strangled in this field because they have to play by the rules, yet the big cable and cell phone companies do not follow the regulations set by the FCC when manufacturing these devices. They step all over everything.

The purpose of my last post was to merely suggest leaving the ground on your DI lifted to avoid getting hit with phantom power. And sometimes you can't do this as I and you noted due to ground loops, power, etc. and that what i was eluding to as well. That was all.

I wasn't looking into getting into an audio debate here in this forum. I believe my advice for leaving your ground lifted on your bass DI was sound advice. No pun intended.

Well said!

 

[Mark Reccord]

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. So it sounds like (to the horror of many a soundman who will act like you're about to commit electrocution suicide when they see you have your line lifted) the default SHOULD be the lift position.

I assume this is because we're used to seeing those 'lift' options on an amp's power line and in that case we SHOULD keep it grounded. And people generally don't understand the difference.

Yeah, lifting pin one on the DI output is not the same as lifting the AC ground on your amp. The AC ground pin is an important safety feature, the DI ground is not. There's a nice debate about AC ground lifts going on in Live Sound right now. I'm staying out of it.

 

[maisbass]

Yeah, lifting pin one on the DI output is not the same as lifting the AC ground on your amp. The AC ground pin is an important safety feature, the DI ground is not. There's a nice debate about AC ground lifts going on in Live Sound right now. I'm staying out of it.

Lol! I played with a guitar player who had an old fender combo from the 60's. The combo had no ac ground pin and he swore he would never get it modded because he felt it would change his tone! I swear you can't make this stuff up! So instead, the poor sound guy would get shocked every time he would mic up his amp.

 

[juledude]

I didn't mean to be adversarial, either.

I've done plenty of gigs in RF unfriendly places (NYC, downtown Tokyo, London etc.) and I've honestly never run into mic lines picking up radio or cell chatter. 25' of mic cable on stage into 250' of multicore out to the console. Never a hitch, so what you're describing does seem a bit strange to me. Even under those extreme conditions there's no advantage to grounding both ends of a mic cable's shield unless the mixer's grounding scheme is abysmally awful.

Clearly, if the DI signal is quieter with pin one connected then you should do that. In my experience that hasn't been the case very often, if ever.

I'll go away now.

I appreciate your input. Stay here.

I haven't had it happen yet, but there may come a time when some good player calls me up and says he gets a hum or noise when hooking up to some console or snake. That switch is really only there so I can say, "Try the other position," and have him say, 'Wow! That did it."

"Features" really do happen like that.

 

[sleevey55]

Just got my rack mount Monique today and got to play around with it for about an hour or so. Talked to Jule as well so I was completely understanding the amp and how it works (was designed to work). Great guy by the way. I love the big sound and warmth it has, its sooooo smooth, yet clear as well. To my ears its less harsh/brittle than the read, but thats not dogging the Read at all. Just my initial thoughts were that its not quite as bright and clear as the Read......................but again, I only had an hour to fiddle with it. It is definitely quieter at idle than the Read.....Read has a bit more hiss/hum at idle, but nothing unusual or unbearable either.

Gonna have to take the next few months and have a shootout between the two to decide if one goes.........or if the BOTH stay. We shall see, but both are definitely amazing pieces of equipment. Will let you all know what my findings/opinions are soon.

 

[juledude]

After a couple more hours of messing around with it, even with my relatively hot output passive P, the 'out' input boost setting is the thing with the P for sure. I hear and feel what everyone has been talking about with the sensitivity. That should IMO probably be the default setting, like other amps with a 'padded' option when needed. No big deal on that.

With the Roscoe (which I have set to the identical output level as my Nordy P), the default 'non boosted' setting sounds great. So, in a way, I guess Jule's idea of active/passive in this case makes sense. It is surely not just a simple pad (or I guess I should say, it doesn't really act like one). Lots of tonality variation in there.

My P is nicely growling and grunting, without sounding like it has 'added in effect distortion' for lack of a better term. Just fat and good, with lots of articulation and low end. Dig it.

You are there Kenneth.

I will always feel at a loss to describe exactly what that Sensitivity control does. I wish there was a simple explanation. I mean that. There is just too much to put into a sentence. And the only good way to figure it out is to give it a whirl. But you are there.

I like to take fair credit, but I admit again that the idea for the Sensitivity Control on Monique was not mine. My original idea was much more involved technically, and in the end not good enough. The Sensitivity Control on Monique came directly from collaboration with my friend/mentor Mark Sampson.

 

[BurningSkies]

I appreciate your input. Stay here.

I haven't had it happen yet, but there may come a time when some good player calls me up and says he gets a hum or noise when hooking up to some console or snake. That switch is really only there so I can say, "Try the other position," and have him say, 'Wow! That did it."

"Features" really do happen like that.

I ran my DI in the 'lift' position for a long time, because I assumed that down was grounded and up was lifted (which it isn't). In that year plus of running like that, I only had one sound guy have DI noise problems. It was a festival show this summer with generator power. When he complained about it, I switched it up (to ground) and it went away. I also got the lecture about always having my DI grounded...although I'd been playing it lifted for over a year without any problems.

 

[KJung]

You are there Kenneth.

I will always feel at a loss to describe exactly what that Sensitivity control does. I wish there was a simple explanation. I mean that. There is just too much to put into a sentence. And the only good way to figure it out is to give it a whirl. But you are there.

I like to take fair credit, but I admit again that the idea for the Sensitivity Control on Monique was not mine. My original idea was much more involved technically, and in the end not good enough. The Sensitivity Control on Monique came directly from collaboration with my friend/mentor Mark Sampson.

Really a beautiful preamp AND power amp. More oomph than I would ever need. Thanks! 'Tube tone' in the best definition of that phrase to me.

 

[maisbass]

I appreciate your input. Stay here.

I haven't had it happen yet, but there may come a time when some good player calls me up and says he gets a hum or noise when hooking up to some console or snake. That switch is really only there so I can say, "Try the other position," and have him say, 'Wow! That did it."

"Features" really do happen like that.

Yes I agree with Jule, Mark don't leave, stay here! I see you have an electronics background and that is always helpful around these parts. I am no technical guru, pretty much self taught, so if you have academic expertise in this area, that is always helpful. My conclusions and assumptions have been based on literature I have read over the years, trial and error, and 30 years of field experience.

It also sounds like the gigs you are doing are larger shows than what I do on a daily basis. I am mostly doing Government / News Media work which involves a lot of talking head stuff. So basically, Podium, Q&A, press mults, etc. The setups are always in the worst possible conditions because it is always about the photo op, not the sound. Ug! Many of the press conferences I have to handle put me in the worst possible mixing positions as well because I have to be out of the press shot, out of the way of quick escape routes for elected officials, etc. Many times the setups are last minute, or when they are planned, the Advance person will change the setup right after I completed our setup, gaffed cables, etc. F*CK!! It is truly frustrating. And power? LOL! Sometimes I have to run extensions 250 feet to a power source, or they provide me with some crappy non sine wave generator (can you say oscillating buzz??), or maybe I'm lucky and I'll get a pole tap. But depending on who is doing the tap, it could be lethal. I have been electrocuted before by electricians and had gear fry on me. I learned a long time ago to test every outlet before plugging into it! Haha!

Some of the special events we do have some musical acts, but with a staff of three, we do limited setups, with the exception of larger events such as Inaugurations, Parades (Yankees, Giants, etc.). With those events I get to use my real gear (Midas Pro 2, Kara's, etc). But on a daily basis for regular events it is usually powered Mackie speakers, Midas Venice, and a pair of SM57's for the podium because they want that presidential look. Always fun cranking 50 db of gain with those mics in an outside environment in order to get proper levels for the broadcast feed. I have come across a new piece that is helping us in these situations reduce background noise (Neve Portico 5045). Not sure if you checked it out, but I heard engineers are starting to use it live on vocalists to eliminate the band bleeding into the vocalist mic.

Ok I digressed enough. Yeesh! This is a thread about our beautiful Monique that we all love and adore. I'm glad there is more than one of her, because there would be a bloodbath fighting over her! haha!

And I didn't mean any disrespect in my reply to you before Mark. I appreciate your insight so stick around!

 

[maisbass]

Just got my rack mount Monique today and got to play around with it for about an hour or so. Talked to Jule as well so I was completely understanding the amp and how it works (was designed to work). Great guy by the way. I love the big sound and warmth it has, its sooooo smooth, yet clear as well. To my ears its less harsh/brittle than the read, but thats not dogging the Read at all. Just my initial thoughts were that its not quite as bright and clear as the Read......................but again, I only had an hour to fiddle with it. It is definitely quieter at idle than the Read.....Read has a bit more hiss/hum at idle, but nothing unusual or unbearable either.

Gonna have to take the next few months and have a shootout between the two to decide if one goes.........or if the BOTH stay. We shall see, but both are definitely amazing pieces of equipment. Will let you all know what my findings/opinions are soon.

I feel your pain, but its a good pain! I went through the same thing a while ago. I absolutely love my Read Purity preamp. After purchasing Monique, I almost sold mine, but decided to hold onto it for now. I agree, Monique is definitely not as clear or bright as the read, and the Read has a great mid forward presence especially with that magical emphasis circuit (better lower mids than Monique IMO). But to my ears, Monique is much fuller sounding, beefier, and has more of a tube like response which are all wins for me. Although the Read has excellent punch, I never cared for its eq. For me, if the eq on the Read were better, perhaps I might not have needed Monique, but that is not the case.

Every time I think that I may want to sell the Read, I'll plug in and think "Wow this is a great pre". Perhaps someday I will sell it, but for now, its nice to have it as a backup! It is just a different animal than Monique.

I'm looking forward to your findings and thoughts on this.

 

[Quackhead]

Ok I digressed enough. Yeesh! This is a thread about our beautiful Monique that we all love and adore.

Yeah man, what are you thinking?!! Can't we get back to talking about burritos?

 

[KJung]

Yeah man, what are you thinking?!! Can't we get back to talking about burritos?

Seriously though, after all that, all I need to know is if the DI is 'phantom power safe' at either ground or lift, like virtually every other head on the market today. Since this design is a bit old school, I do not want to run into trouble. Most manuals specifically state that the head is 'phantom power safe', in case the board has that engaged.

Seems like a simple 'yes or no' question to me. I'm planning to keep the DI on the 'ground' setting, like I've been doing with every head I've owned for the last 30 years or so (before that, I didn't have front of house support at all). Never had a problem, but I do know that back in the day, you could get in trouble. I surely don't want to damage that transformer or whatever it is

 

[maisbass]

Yeah man, what are you thinking?!! Can't we get back to talking about burritos?

ROFL!

 

[BurningSkies]

I have a different "good tube preamp" and my default was that while the Monique has become my main/regular go-to (about 99% of the time), its not bad to keep another preamp that offers different tonal options.

 

[maisbass]

It is best for the sound-folk and us to keep phantom power (~48 volts) off that balanced line. They (sound-folk) are pretty hip to that. So the "default" is to leave the Ground Lift Switch in the Grounded position. The first few Moniques didn't have a ground lift switch.



For the environments where we just can't keep phantom power out of the balanced line (a limited environment) we should "Lift" that ground so the Cinemag output transformer doesn't see that ~48 volts.



As to damage, we shouldn't see any damage either way, but I will always worry that it can happen when we stuff ~48 volts into it. The Cinemag output transformer in Monique is a fabulous device. Cinemag did a great job. It is also the most costly single component in Monique.

As per Jules response above, IMO it seems to me I would rather be better safe than sorry and leave it lifted. I hardly ever experience any noise problems this way with any bass pre or amp I've owned. This is what I have always done and will continue to do. Just my 2 cents.

 

[KJung]

As per Jules response above, IMO it seems to me I would rather be better safe than sorry and leave it lifted. I hardly ever experience any noise problems this way with any bass pre or amp I've owned. This is what I have always done and will continue to do. Just my 2 cents.

Ah... cool, that is the answer. More old school. OK, I'll just set that switch at 'lift' and hopefully be happy. Thanks! I kind of got lost in the weeds with the 'over my head' technical discussion. All is good!