Jule Amps Monique part 4

[pjhandlin]

I'm sitting down here messing with it as a type! All kinds of non-linear stuff going on with that control (that you mentioned to me when I was getting up to speed prior to placing an order. Virtually no volume increase between 9 o'clock and full with the knob pushed in, but with the knob pulled out, you get a noticeable overall volume bump (of course), but then an additional volume bump from around 10 o'clock through 2 o'clock that is not there otherwise.

Also, in the spirit of the 'non-linear' interactions, the entire tonality changes a bit at every setting. In other words, having the sensitivity cranked with the knob pushed in does not sound the same as the boost engaged and the sensitivity turned down. The boost kind of changes the nature of the control throughout its travel. I guess this makes a bit of sense with all the tubes in there, etc.

Pretty cool.

+1

This is one of the only gigging problems that I'm 'sensitive' to as well

Turning up the sensitivity does boost the overall gain/volume as you go up, and I have warned FOH on a couple of hits when relying on DI. I did a bit of sensitivity sweep during initial soundcheck- both times was told "not an issue" and it never turned out to be a problem.

 

[KJung]

+1

This is one of the only gigging problems that I'm 'sensitive' to as well

Turning up the sensitivity does boost the overall gain/volume as you go up, and I have warned FOH on a couple of hits when relying on DI. I did a bit of sensitivity sweep during initial soundcheck- both times was told "not an issue" and it never turned out to be a problem.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of pre EQ DI... let the sound guy do his job, etc. However, I can see where I am going to eventually find the sweet spot and then most likely not touch that control once the gig starts. Not too worried.

Per Jules post above talking about phantom power, I assume phantom power from the board won't do any harm?... you never know if the front of house guy turns it off on a given channel.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm sitting down here messing with it as a type! All kinds of non-linear stuff going on with that control (that you mentioned to me when I was getting up to speed prior to placing an order. Virtually no volume increase between 9 o'clock and full with the knob pushed in, but with the knob pulled out, you get a noticeable overall volume bump (of course), but then an additional volume bump from around 10 o'clock through 2 o'clock that is not there otherwise.

Also, in the spirit of the 'non-linear' interactions, the entire tonality changes a bit at every setting. In other words, having the sensitivity cranked with the knob pushed in does not sound the same as the boost engaged and the sensitivity turned down. The boost kind of changes the nature of the control throughout its travel. I guess this makes a bit of sense with all the tubes in there, etc.

Pretty cool.

I know that Jule designed this with the passive/active thing in mind but it quickly became apparent that it was going to be used by people as another option for color and really not related to passive/active levels. When you haven't used the Monique before but are used to a standard gain or saturation level, its easy to go into using the sensitivity control with a pre-conceived notion of what it is or what it does...its really its own beast and how use use it and what you hit it with affects everything downstream. With it pulled, you definitely can get more 'grunt' out of the unit and for me, the sensitivity with the hotter level gain maxes out its useful range at about 3 o'clock before it starts sounding to flattened and feels like it lacks some of the dynamics I want. The caveat being that I run fairly hot pickups in series which is a pretty hot signal to start with.

 

[BurningSkies]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of pre EQ DI... let the sound guy do his job, etc. However, I can see where I am going to eventually find the sweet spot and then most likely not touch that control once the gig starts. Not too worried.

Per Jules post above talking about phantom power, I assume phantom power from the board won't do any harm?... you never know if the front of house guy turns it off on a given channel.

Will NOT do harm. I have unintentionally tested this, when a soundman mistakenly handed me the wrong XLR for my DI. No problems. Although he freaked when he realized that he COULD have fried my DI or preamp depending upon design

 

[maisbass]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of pre EQ DI... let the sound guy do his job, etc. However, I can see where I am going to eventually find the sweet spot and then most likely not touch that control once the gig starts. Not too worried.

Per Jules post above talking about phantom power, I assume phantom power from the board won't do any harm?... you never know if the front of house guy turns it off on a given channel.

I am a sound guy and I never trust sound guys!! LOL! I usually leave my ground lifted on my DI just as a precaution against phantom power. If the sound guy tells me there is a buzz in my DI line, then I tell him to make sure phantom is turned off first before I flip my ground switch. Even if it is safe for Monique's DI to handle phantom power, I am just overly cautious and a bit of a control freak!

 

[KJung]

I am a sound guy and I never trust sound guys!! LOL! I usually leave my ground lifted on my DI just as a precaution against phantom power. If the sound guy tells me there is a buzz in my DI line, then I tell him to make sure phantom is turned off first before I flip my ground switch. Even if it is safe for Monique's DI to handle phantom power, I am just overly cautious and a bit of a control freak!

Good to know. I don't really know how this all works. All the other heads I own specifically say 'safe for phantom power', so I never lift the ground and never have had a problem. Since Jule doesn't talk about that in the manual, seems like ground lift is the 'safe default' for this unit, if I understand this correctly.

 

[BurningSkies]

Good to know. I don't really know how this all works. All the other heads I own specifically say 'safe for phantom power', so I never lift the ground and never have had a problem. Since Jule doesn't talk about that in the manual, seems like ground lift is the 'safe default' for this unit, if I understand this correctly.

I believe that because its transformer isolated, its safe for Phantom. I know its safe, because I asked Jule at one point...but I think that's the reason...

 

[juledude]

Yeah, I'm a big fan of pre EQ DI... let the sound guy do his job, etc. However, I can see where I am going to eventually find the sweet spot and then most likely not touch that control once the gig starts. Not too worried.

Per Jules post above talking about phantom power, I assume phantom power from the board won't do any harm?... you never know if the front of house guy turns it off on a given channel.

It is best for the sound-folk and us to keep phantom power (~48 volts) off that balanced line. They (sound-folk) are pretty hip to that. So the "default" is to leave the Ground Lift Switch in the Grounded position. The first few Moniques didn't have a ground lift switch.

For the environments where we just can't keep phantom power out of the balanced line (a limited environment) we should "Lift" that ground so the Cinemag output transformer doesn't see that ~48 volts.

As to damage, we shouldn't see any damage either way, but I will always worry that it can happen when we stuff ~48 volts into it. The Cinemag output transformer in Monique is a fabulous device. Cinemag did a great job. It is also the most costly single component in Monique.

 

[maisbass]

Good to know. I don't really know how this all works. All the other heads I own specifically say 'safe for phantom power', so I never lift the ground and never have had a problem. Since Jule doesn't talk about that in the manual, seems like ground lift is the 'safe default' for this unit, if I understand this correctly.

Generally when manufacturers state that their DI is safe for phantom power, it means there is electronics in place (transformer, caps, etc) to block the DC voltage entering the unit.

Phantom power voltage runs down pins 2 and 3 equally of an xlr, but need to be referenced to pin 1 ground in order to work. By lifting pin 1 ground, it breaks the phantom power voltage, therefore resulting in no phantom power.

But by lifting ground on your DI can help eliminate from your signal buzz and RF, depending upon the room, lighting, length of cable di run (poor shielding) etc. In these instances you may have to leave your DI grounded and make sure the sound guy has phantom disabled.

Most of the time I work with my own sound guy so I don't have to worry about this, but I still double check with my Behringer x32Q monitor app to make sure phantom is off on my channel.

I always start off by leaving the ground lifted, verify all is good with phantom disabled, then flip to ground if necessary.

 

[juledude]

I know that Jule designed this with the passive/active thing in mind but it quickly became apparent that it was going to be used by people as another option for color and really not related to passive/active levels. When you haven't used the Monique before but are used to a standard gain or saturation level, its easy to go into using the sensitivity control with a pre-conceived notion of what it is or what it does...its really its own beast and how use use it and what you hit it with affects everything downstream. With it pulled, you definitely can get more 'grunt' out of the unit and for me, the sensitivity with the hotter level gain maxes out its useful range at about 3 o'clock before it starts sounding to flattened and feels like it lacks some of the dynamics I want. The caveat being that I run fairly hot pickups in series which is a pretty hot signal to start with.

First ideas are just that, the first thing we come up with. But there always seems to be more to learn.

Yes, the Sensitivity push/pull was at first a way to work with both active and passive pickups. Pulled out for Passive and pushed in for active.

Immediately. The first time a player tried the push/pull, they showed me that the feature also allowed for a much wider palette of sounds than a single position potentiometer did.

The range of playing characteristics is also widened greatly with this push/pull feature. The tone is affected, certainly, but in addition, the "touch", sustain and definition change too in relation to your pickups and your attack.

 

[maisbass]

It is best for the sound-folk and us to keep phantom power (~48 volts) off that balanced line. They (sound-folk) are pretty hip to that. So the "default" is to leave the Ground Lift Switch in the Grounded position. The first few Moniques didn't have a ground lift switch.

For the environments where we just can't keep phantom power out of the balanced line (a limited environment) we should "Lift" that ground so the Cinemag output transformer doesn't see that ~48 volts.

As to damage, we shouldn't see any damage either way, but I will always worry that it can happen when we stuff ~48 volts into it. The Cinemag output transformer in Monique is a fabulous device. Cinemag did a great job. It is also the most costly single component in Monique.

Understood Jule. As I said, Im just a bit of an overly cautious nervous nellie, and a control freak, but most of all, a nutty bass player!!!

 

[monsterthompson]

Hey Jule, had 'tape' running at this week's slightly drunken practice. Monique of various tones all over the place:

[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/burning-skies/wakeup1?in=burning-skies/sets/root-shock-november-13-2013[/SOUNDCLOUD]

[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/burning-skies/sweetreunion4?in=burning-skies/sets/root-shock-november-13-2013[/SOUNDCLOUD]

[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/burning-skies/babylontree1?in=burning-skies/sets/root-shock-november-13-2013[/SOUNDCLOUD]


[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/burning-skies/sorry1?in=burning-skies/sets/root-shock-november-13-2013[/SOUNDCLOUD]

[SOUNDCLOUD]https://soundcloud.com/burning-skies/games2?in=burning-skies/sets/root-shock-november-13-2013[/SOUNDCLOUD]

rad

 

[jdwinva]

After playing Monique for the past couple weeks I made the decision to box her up and send her to James Demeter to be upgraded to a De-Monique. I did fine that Monique sounds radically different with different amps and different input impedance. For example, Monique sounds uber vintage into a Crest Pro-LITE 2.0 but opens up and has more presence run into the return of a Gallien-Krueger MB 800 Fusion. So after all this experimenting live on stage during a did I decided to get the Demeter 800D amp installed in the Monique.

 

[BurningSkies]

rad

Thanks!


Just for the record, I actually don't have my tone control too far off from the picture Ken posted on this recording.

I run my:
-Treble at 9 to 10 o'clock
-Mid at 1 to 2 o'clock
-Bass at 1 to 2 o'clock

My bass has some of the treble rolled off (passive style treble roll off, something like 30% back) and a bit (about 15%) of bass boost at 40hz, a bit lower than Jule's control, which is around 50-55hz IIRC.

The song Wake up has the sensitivity pulled back to 10 and Babylon Tree is the tone with the sensitivity around 2. I bring up the treble a bit for songs like Sweet Reunion since its more of a bass hook song (usually I do so with Sorry as well but didn't for this recording). Also, there's no EQ or compression or any adjustments to the bass in the 'mixdown'. Its untouched. Hopefully I'll get a little more polished tracking tonight.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

After playing Monique for the past couple weeks I made the decision to box her up and send her to James Demeter to be upgraded to a De-Monique. I did fine that Monique sounds radically different with different amps and different input impedance. For example, Monique sounds uber vintage into a Crest Pro-LITE 2.0 but opens up and has more presence run into the return of a Gallien-Krueger MB 800 Fusion. So after all this experimenting live on stage during a did I decided to get the Demeter 800D amp installed in the Monique.

Will he also swap the all steel chassis of the rack mounted Monique into an aluminum chassis, which is 3lbs lighter?

 

[Jazzdogg]

<SNIP> I like the Monique the way she is, she's got 'curves' and can shake them but never becomes that sloppy drunk fat girl on the dance floor who loses control.

LOL! Well said!

 

[KJung]

I know that Jule designed this with the passive/active thing in mind but it quickly became apparent that it was going to be used by people as another option for color and really not related to passive/active levels. When you haven't used the Monique before but are used to a standard gain or saturation level, its easy to go into using the sensitivity control with a pre-conceived notion of what it is or what it does...its really its own beast and how use use it and what you hit it with affects everything downstream. With it pulled, you definitely can get more 'grunt' out of the unit and for me, the sensitivity with the hotter level gain maxes out its useful range at about 3 o'clock before it starts sounding to flattened and feels like it lacks some of the dynamics I want. The caveat being that I run fairly hot pickups in series which is a pretty hot signal to start with.

After a couple more hours of messing around with it, even with my relatively hot output passive P, the 'out' input boost setting is the thing with the P for sure. I hear and feel what everyone has been talking about with the sensitivity. That should IMO probably be the default setting, like other amps with a 'padded' option when needed. No big deal on that.

With the Roscoe (which I have set to the identical output level as my Nordy P), the default 'non boosted' setting sounds great. So, in a way, I guess Jule's idea of active/passive in this case makes sense. It is surely not just a simple pad (or I guess I should say, it doesn't really act like one). Lots of tonality variation in there.

My P is nicely growling and grunting, without sounding like it has 'added in effect distortion' for lack of a better term. Just fat and good, with lots of articulation and low end. Dig it.

 

[tombowlus]

After a couple more hours of messing around with it, even with my relatively hot output passive P, the 'out' input boost setting is the thing with the P for sure. I hear and feel what everyone has been talking about with the sensitivity. That should IMO probably be the default setting, like other amps with a 'padded' option when needed. No big deal on that.

With the Roscoe (which I have set to the identical output level as my Nordy P), the default 'non boosted' setting sounds great. So, in a way, I guess Jule's idea of active/passive in this case makes sense. It is surely not just a simple pad (or I guess I should say, it doesn't really act like one). Lots of tonality variation in there.

My P is nicely growling and grunting, without sounding like it has 'added in effect distortion' for lack of a better term. Just fat and good, with lots of articulation and low end. Dig it.

Yup. That sounds like Monique.

 

[Mark Reccord]

But by lifting ground on your DI can make your signal susceptible to buzz and RF, depending upon the room, lighting, length of cable di run etc. In these instances you have to leave your DI grounded and make sure the sound guy has phantom disabled.

I've been a passive observer on this thread so far but I feel the need to interject here. Lifting pin one on one end of a balanced line doesn't make the balanced signal more susceptible to anything. By definition, a balanced setup will automatically reject anything picked up along the cable (assuming a decent twisted pair) by virtue of common-mode rejection at the mixer input. The pin one connection in a mic cable is only a shield and assuming no need for phantom power should only be connected at one end. Leaving pin one connected on your amp's DI just connects the chassis of your amp to the chassis of the mixing desk and if they aren't powered from the same place or have a low impedance ground path between their chassis (what's the plural of chassis? ) there's the potential for ground loop-injected noise. he default setting for an on board DI should be pin one lifted as there's no need for it given a balanced output.

 

[BurningSkies]

I've been a passive observer on this thread so far but I feel the need to interject here. Lifting pin one on one end of a balanced line doesn't make the balanced signal more susceptible to anything. By definition, a balanced setup will automatically reject anything picked up along the cable (assuming a decent twisted pair) by virtue of common-mode rejection at the mixer input. The pin one connection in a mic cable is only a shield and assuming no need for phantom power should only be connected at one end. Leaving pin one connected on your amp's DI just connects the chassis of your amp to the chassis of the mixing desk and if they aren't powered from the same place or have a low impedance ground path between their chassis (what's the plural of chassis? ) there's the potential for ground loop-injected noise. he default setting for an on board DI should be pin one lifted as there's no need for it given a balanced output.

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. So it sounds like (to the horror of many a soundman who will act like you're about to commit electrocution suicide when they see you have your line lifted) the default SHOULD be the lift position.

I assume this is because we're used to seeing those 'lift' options on an amp's power line and in that case we SHOULD keep it grounded. And people generally don't understand the difference.