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just heard bill dickens for the first time

#21
I haven't seen Dickens live, but I've seen both his instructional videos, plus his performance with Bailey, Wooten and Burbridge on the video "the day the bass players took over the world".

What I heard so far, and it wasn't a whole lot, tells me he's got killer chops and his playing seems to be more on the rhythmic side as opposed to melody. I hate to say it, but a lot of it is flash and not much else. He has a lick which is incredible, but that he seems to do every chance he has. It's a flamenco-like rake he uses to pull off these crazy triplets.. or something. All I'm saying it takes a lot of wanking to be the one overplaying when you're in the presence of Vic, Steve and Oteil. Taste is the issue, maybe.

Now, I'm not saying he's not great, but the stuff he's put out there with his name on it does project that.
 
#22
I really couldn't have said it better, Blackbird. That's what I've been trying to get across. Mind-blowing the first time you hear it, not so mind-blowing after the 100th time...

The thing that bothers me is that a lot of these guys talk about the importance of space between the notes, etc. but all too often they don't practice what they preach. Instead, it seems like they usually go for the easy way out, playing the stock million-note licks (easy for them, since they have the chops to do it and the licks are often very similar variations of one or two techniques). This is probably due in no small part to the fact that it generates quite a pop in the audience whenever it's tried.

Now, I will admit upfront that I will never possess the speed that a lot of these guys do. My technique is really good, but you've heard faster. But what I try to focus on is getting more out of my lines with my choices of notes and rhythms. And groove, for me, is the absolute #1 thing. A lot of today's players focus on expanding the bass as a solo instrument (and there's nothing wrong with that).
But I really enjoy the bass the most when it's grooving. That's a huge rush for me, and my personal goal as a player is to find new ways to groove better.

Fallon, you are absolutely right!! Even though we respectfully disagree about what constitutes talent, I would never advocate shutting down a thread or debate over it. Indeed, the only way this site can be vital is if there is healthy debate where different viewpoints can be freely expressed. That said, you stay cool as well, my fast, talented, slapping Scottish friend!!
:D
 
#23
i know bill dickens pretty well, and he's got _MUCH_ more to his playing than just the wank factor. you all have to realize that the stuff that is going to be the snipets on his webpage or performed in a "day the bass players took over the world" jam is going to be pretty onesided - that's what those events are all about. the majority of the folks that go to those events dont' care if someone can solo beautifully to the changes in autumn leaves or write a killer song. billy's just serving up what folks are ordering.

he's also toured with barry manilow, among _countless_ others, and all joking aside, to get that kind of gig you better be pretty well rounded as a player, with all the skills that non-bassist musicians require from a bass player.
 
#24
I certainly wouldn't makes jokes about the Manilow gig. Even though I don't often play or listen to that kind of stuff, I think the guy's a genius. That Bill played with him earns him some major cool points in my book, since that gig would require some real musicianship and restraint.

I guess for me it's a shame that he's known almost exclusively for the "wank" factor, since all the press I've read on him focuses on that alone.

Come to think of it, most of the press I read regarding the superchops crowd is the same. I think I will have to kill myself if I read one more bass interview that says, "So, how did you develop your mind-blowing/earth-shattering/insert-any-other-phrase-denoting-slack-jawed-wonder technique?"

Or, in a less dramatic move, perhaps I will stop reading all that junk and get back to the woodshed. :hmm:
 
#25
yeah, well, that's the legacy that the last decade of music has left us with. gone are the days when awesome chops served awesome songs. now it seems like the point is awesome chops in service to nothing, with the "song" being merely a vehicle to showboat. i think this is in direct response to the whole "slacker/grunge" movement, and the lack of musicianship that seems to be pursued as a virtue by popular rock music these days.
 
#26
Originally posted by john turner
yeah, well, that's the legacy that the last decade of music has left us with. gone are the days when awesome chops served awesome songs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Yngwie for President!! ;)

On the subject of Bill's musicianship, I think everyone will be able to find out how much he has when he releases his first solo CD in January. He is the main reason I got into chordal bass playing after buying one of his old instructional videos about six years back, and I believe there's far more to him than chops.
 
#28
Originally posted by rickbass
With all due respect to John's comments...notice no major league band has picked him up, to my knowledge.

Maybe he can lay back in the pocket, but all I've ever heard is overplaying.
Click to expand...

True about the big bands. He has worked with major acts, but mostly as a producer or writer, doing some bass tracks on remixes according to his website. He did play for Ramsey Lewis for a long time.
 
#30
Maybe we should find his bio and post it to this thread, I dont remember where I saw this, but he has played with plenty of top notch musicians. This kind of reminds me of how Marcus Miller seems to be known for his slap, but beleive you me, he can finger style just as good as anyone I have heard, I would not be surprised that there is so much more to Bill than we may know or have heard, in term of his playing that is:hmm:

Thats my quarter of a dimes worth.
 
#32
Originally posted by rickbass
Still, I don't seem him regularly playing as an integral part of a musical entity, even in that link you posted. It seems to be all "one-shot" sit-ins.

All I see in a session or two, and, BOOM, he's not part of the band.
Click to expand...

It's like that with a lot of well-known bassists though. Michael Manring, Pino Palladino, Neil Stubenhaus all do intermittent work with groups and then move on.
 
#33
Originally posted by john turner
now it seems like the point is awesome chops in service to nothing, with the "song" being merely a vehicle to showboat. i think this is in direct response to the whole "slacker/grunge" movement, and the lack of musicianship that seems to be pursued as a virtue by popular rock music these days.
Click to expand...

John, I'm a little confused by this comment -- especially the slacker/grunge aspect. Can you explain, please? Thanks.
 
#34
Originally posted by Bryan R. Tyler
On the subject of Bill's musicianship, I think everyone will be able to find out how much he has when he releases his first solo CD in January.
Click to expand...
I'm glad to hear that. It'll be interesting to hear him in a more realistic setting.

Of course, knowing Bill Dickens has a cd out just makes me more frustrated at the fact Anthony Jackson doesn't...

Thanks for the link to the bio. I didn't know he played with Fareed Haque.
 
#35
On Sept 27th, I had the honor and pleasure of meeting Bill Dickens and presenting a workshop with him. Bassquake was divided into day workshops and an evening performance. Since the evening performance was only open to 18 and over, I volunteered to stay back and teach for whoever wanted to get a bit of a masterclass. Bill was hanging just a few feet away with mark White of Accugroove. Bill was fascinated with my Boomerang that I was using asn came over to ask about it. I handed him my 4 string MTD 435. The MUSIC that came from this man was amazing -NOT technique, NOT flash. He could groove, he could play and solo over melodies all day long. My 435 is set up with very low action and very soft string tension (TI Jazz Rounds). Without really getting used to, it can be difficult to slap on tha bass. Bill played for a good 15-20 minutes w/o slapping once.

In that moment, on that day, I gained an infintie amount of respect for him as a player. In our later conversation and hang, I developed a respect for the man

Mike
 
#37
I know that Bill Dickens is a monster on bass.

But I have to ask myself the question: How far is too far when it comes to multi-string instruments?

In the case of Dickens, do you need a 7 string bass to back up Ramsey Lewis??????

In the case of Melvin Davis, do you really need a 7 string bass to back up Chaka Khan??????

Just asking. Peace.
 
#38
Originally posted by scatman
I know that Bill Dickens is a monster on bass.

But I have to ask myself the question: How far is too far when it comes to multi-string instruments?

In the case of Dickens, do you need a 7 string bass to back up Ramsey Lewis??????

In the case of Melvin Davis, do you really need a 7 string bass to back up Chaka Khan??????

Just asking. Peace.
Click to expand...

You should ask yourself why you care. :hmm:
 
#39
Nice post Mike. I might add that you were very gracious in letting Bill play your wonderful bass for your students that night. Plus, Bill & I talked later about how we both enjoyed your playing completely!

A few tidbits:

Bill played with Ramsey Lewis for 8 years. Nothing but a groove gig, plus he wrote one or more of Ramsey's top hit songs. (Few bass players can write)

Bill stopped playing bass for 5 to 7 years & focused on producing albums & being a recording engineer for other people. He just started playing again a few years ago.

Since he started playing again most of his work, like any other studio musician, is working in the studio on other peoples albums, that’s what pays the bills & why he's not out on tours.

99% of what Bill gets paid for as a side man is in-the-pocket playing. However, as JT pointed out, at NAMM & other shows, most people ask to see him do the pyrotechnics stuff. Bill really is a groove machine, but will do whatever the gig calls for.

As was stated about other great players like Marcus, or Vic, if you saw one or two video clips of them, does that mean you know all they have to offer? Can you measure who a man is or what he has to offer on the limited knowledge you’ve obtained through a few clips or what you've heard others say?

Lastly, Bill is the humblest musician I’ve ever met. He is always talking about how great the other cats are, Vic, Marcus, Manring, etc. and he’s always amazed that anyone thinks he’s any good.

Mark

AccuGroove.com
 
#40
Lastly, Bill is the humblest musician I’ve ever met. He is always talking about how great the other cats are, Vic, Marcus, Manring, etc. and he’s always amazed that anyone thinks he’s any good.

Mark

AccuGroove.com [/B][/QUOTE]

AGREE 100% I had a chance to meet him and watch him play at G/C a few years ago, he was a very pleasant guy, and gave kudos to other bass players as well, he talked with us and told us pretty much what others have already said about who he has played for. He even invited some of us on stage to play the bass, nobody rushed the stage to show off their chops at that time in history:eek: I thought about it for a very quick second, and decided to save myself any shame by staying put. ;) all in all a very great experience, and he has very small hands so I dont know how he moves around on a 7 or 9 string so fast but he made it look very easy, and I am talking finger style:cool:
 

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