Just how many watts does a jazz bassist need?

[biobass]

If you don't want to go for big wattage, just make sure this never happens to you!

Wow! I quite enjoyed that. I’ve never heard of Marc Johnson before. If I had John Scofield, Bill Frisell, and Peter Erskine on the bandstand with me, I’d also be perfectly happy staying home and tending to the fire, as it were. It reminded me of Rick Laird holding the Mahavishnu Orchestra together while McLaughlin, Hammer, Cobham and Goodman did the exploring.

Back to topic, I think that red Walter Woods amp that Johnson is using is 1200 watts.

 

[DJ Bebop]

In my opinion, anything over 300 watts is inappropriate for a jazz gig. The problem is that at a higher wattage, the resolution of the volume control becomes too coarse.
Which means that at low volume, adjusting Volume becomes very fiddly, and you have to try to find the right volume on the first 5 millimeters by chance.

Also, please remember that not long ago, high-powered Class-D (300+ Watts) amps weren't that common, still Bassist were able to play and getting heard just fine.

Also also, it's Jazz not Rock.

 

[bassinflorida]

As long as you have and know how to use the "volume knob" more is better.

 

[IamGroot]

80W

 

[BassikLee]

Power is cheap. Volume perception is logarithmic. Buy as much power as you can. 800 watt heads are everywhere. That's where I'd want to start

 

[ahbradot]

Charlie Watts

 

[MisticoRitualista]

300-500 watts should suffice

 

[LowActionHero]

Highest I ever got up to was 650 watts, a little over half on the volume knob, with a loud rock band with 3 guitars, occasionally a forth. I did have PA support just in case but was told it was mostly turned down. Even outdoors.

So I would guess 400 is plenty for your situation, but it's just a guess. 800 would be the safer bet for headroom and future situations.

So.... I'm no help at all...

 

[BOOG]

imh(and insignificant)o, amp watts are over-rated and quality cabs are generally under-rated. For the situation you’re describing, I’d bet a 200-350watt amp would be plenty if paired with 1-2 efficient cabs of your choice/taste in tone.

 

[halcyo]

I would think for Jazz you’d want even MORE wattage so that you can keep the amp turned down and get more CLEAN tone. Amps start doing “characterful” things when pushed hard. Better to have a 800w amp set on “3” than a 200w amp set on “9”.

 

[DJ Bebop]

25 watts...

 

[FenderP]

As someone who primarily plays jazz, my rig has evolved over the years.

For a long, long time I used a '63 B-15N which was fine for a big band. Its fatal flaw: weight. I recently sold it because outside a handful of times in the past years, it never left where I live because of the weight. It needs to be used. That was the lowest wattage amp yet one of the loudest. Go figure.

Over the past 15 years I've been through quite few amps to get that right mix of sound to portability. For example, the Phil Jones Bass Double Four was great in terms of portability and almost loud enough but not quite - yet it had more watts than the B-15N. It was not my cup of tea sonically; that was part of it. Did the Double Four power a big band? Yes. But the lack of headroom was challenging. I always felt like I was hitting the ceiling.

I basically chased the B-15 in a smaller, louder, lighter package. More watts is not necessarily a bad thing. Headroom is good. Right now the only speaker I have is a 4 Ohm GR Bass AT-110 (1 x 10") as my speaker. I have essentially two setups I can plug into it:

1. My pedalboard amp which is basically a deconstructed B-15 head. It's a Jule Simone 500 for the power, a Broughton P-15 for the main sonics, the Two Notes C.A.B. M+ to provide the tube power amp sim, and a HPF. The AT-110 is rated at 300W and on the Simone, I rarely turn it up to even 50% with big bands. So I can confidently say 150 - 200W for most jazz situations is probably enough.
   
2. An Ampeg PF-350. While it is not as warm as my other setup, it trumps it because it is much smaller, lighter, and being honest, simpler to set up. I am probably the only one who cares sonically and can probably use this 100% of the time. I'm looking into ways to warm it up in a way that may be closer to the other setup, but not sure how much I care.

The past few gigs with my band (have another in February) I've been taking the DI out from the C.A.B M+ for FOH and using the speaker combined with a monitor for on stage so I did not need to crank volume at all. THe sound guy at that venue is good so I know I sound good.

TL;DR based on roughly 30 years experience with many different setups, I would say outside of a B-15N, under 100W for solid state is slightly underpowered for some gigs (but not all). I'd say look for something in the 150-200W range which gives you headroom. I think someone earlier said more than 300W is overkill. Yes, my Simone is rated at 500W but I'll never use that in a jazz setting. If I am, I'm playing something like the Hollywood Bowl.

As for speakers, I've used small (the 5"ers in the Double Four) up to an 18" in the B-18. As much as I'm a 15" guy, I find the 1 x 10" is the sweet spot for my basses overall to have good sound and portability. Finding a match for your setup is never easy. I've got various fretted and fretless basses and there were some speakers and amps that did better with one or another. The Ampeg and my deconstructed B-15 work with 'em all and the AT-110 does, too.

 

[rogerb]

I have been looking at the same set up, the PJB 800 is 400w into a C4 which would be it’s maximum rating, I suppose you wouldn’t actually want to crank that up. I’m thinking the PJB 400 and 2 C4’s would be plenty loud for anything as more speaker is more volume.

My TC Electonic BAM 200 and 2x8 the only other rig readily available and costing way less than just the PJB head seems like it would do the job as well. 2 2x8 cabs and amp even and the price is still like the smaller PJB head alone.

I would be hoping the PJB sounds tone and volume way better than my TC Electronic rig which sounds great and loud at gain and master both at 12:00.

I’ve got a little headroom with 200w head and single cab it seems in a low volume rock trio.

 

[rogerb]

Is a PJB 400 into 2 C4’s more versatile than a PJB 800 into a single C4 cab? Maybe someone has experimented with that?

 

[knirirr]

FWIW, playing jazz in pubs etc. I never found I needed more than the old Trace Elliot BLX-130 I bought in 1994. Recently I replaced it with an Orange Terror with 1x12" cab; just as capable, and and not much more than half the weight. I could always buy a second cab if necessary, I suppose.

 

[Jv-d]

Hi folks....

I'm ready to buy some Phil Jones gear (maybe) to complement the sweet 5 string fretless I just bought and soon another upright bass.

I have found online sellers where I am (UK) that have both the BP-800 and the D400..
Also deciding between the Compact 4 or the Cab 47.

My main use will be home practice, my studio recording and maybe some jazz trios and quartets.. is BP800 overkill you think? Or would the D400 be more than adequate for my needs described above?

Please forgive all the questions but because there is nowhere to go and try these items near me I have to rely on other people's opinions and descriptions.

Everyone I speak to says to get the BP800 for the extra clean headroom, but they are mostly loud rock and funk players and not really jazz guys.

I played guitar in jazz trios, quartets, quintets, louds 6 piece African groups, rock bands, and right up to 14 piece big bands with large horn sections and even dance and big loud funk orchestras for 10 years with nothing but a Peavey Bandit guitar amp that was only 112 watts and it was more power than I ever needed. I can not ever really imagine suddenly needing 800 watts for anything just because I now want to play jazz bass.. buy hey I'm open to suggestions.

Would appreciate a few wise gear/wattage opinions before I splash out.

Thank you.

DM
Cab47 owner here...
I think you need to go to the Phil Jones Bass club and pick the brains of PJB owners...
There is enough free n good advice here to make your head spin, but get few PJB players...
I love my cab47! Looking to add a 2nd to my rig... But they are discontinued...
It is a potent cab, especially for its size...
There are others choices now available from Phil Jones...
Go to the PJB club, and see what owners of the cabs have to say, I'm sure your dilemma will be solved...
I will also recommend watch as many Phil Jones vids as you can to understand the thinking that goes into the product... Phil Jones is extremely smart, and before you buy you should hear him talk about his perspective... PJB is a small hands on company, with top shelf products...but it is important to match the amp/cab to your gig -- the right tool for the job!!
If you do the legwork to matching your gig to the right PJB combo/cab, you'll feel as many of us PJB users do, that we are very glad and very satisfied that we went the PJB route... I will say also, that equipment is expensive, so you want to spend you bucks once, and have that item last for years, so you can make your money back...
Some players go through a lot of gear looking for the holy trail of amps n cabs -- that is their prerogative ...I like to spend my money once, and then make it work for me!
I will say that in one of his vids, Phil says that matching amp to cab is a real pain, and the best road to take is a combo, which is already matched... just may be some sage advice there??!!
Get over the the PJB Club, a lot of good people there that have some very practical advice to give you from experience with the product ! See you in there!
Phil Jones Bass Owners' Club

 

[tpaul]

FWIW, your Peavey Bandit was probably not 112 watts. The "112" designation indicated it had one 12" speaker. The basic Bandit was 80 watts, but you could get a 100 watt version and I think they even had a 300 watt version.

But it doesn't matter since as many have pointed out, guitar watts don't translate to bass watts and watts don't equal loudness.

 

[TheArchitect]

Wattage is about where you are playing, not what

 

[retslock]

I’m using a 500 watt head with a 2 x 12” cabinet. Our band is a little too loud but there’s no way that amp is out of it’s depth. I’ve got tons of headroom and any room the amp couldn’t handle would have be very big indeed or perhaps outdoors in which case there would be PA support. Before that amp I used a 350 watt 2 x 10” watt combo and before that a 130 watt solid state with 2 x 15”. Same story. Never overpowered by the band ever. I’m puzzled by some of the stories I hear about needing high powered amps. I’ve been playing a very long time - most of it professionally in all sorts of venues and my current amp is by far the most powerful I’ve ever owned. I’ve never been drowned out by loud guitarists or drummers. I can’t see why a jazz gig would need massive power.

 

[Nashrakh]

I play an older Marbass CMD combo with a single 12" inch speaker, 200, maybe 250 Watts, in two big bands, and I can slay them volume-wise without breaking a sweat, unless we play dance halls or something like that. Then, it's a monitor and I am amped over the PA anyway.

So, bigger is not always better. I also have access to a Little Mark Tube 800 and a matching 4x10 cab, and it's total overkill in this scenario.