Las Vegas Shooting

[ZenG]

Can't say that I agree with that.
As we post, he's being held accountable, so guilty as charged.
His punishment is that he will always be remembered and reviled as a callous and insane individual who chose willingly and engineered a way to inflict massive harm and damage on almost 600 innocents, as well as the entire city of Las Vegas, and probably the rest of the World as well.

His suicide saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in trial and incarceration costs, as well as whatever it costs to administer a lethal injection, so at least he did the taxpayers a service by opting out .

As if, seeing as how he's dead, he could care less what his "punishment" is.

 

[ZenG]

and its said we only actively use a small percentage of our brains as is.

.

That's actually an often repeated myth that isn't true.

 

[ZenG]

So he was "clean as a whistle" and nobody saw it coming.

Well you can say the same about suicides too..including some famous celebrities. You can also say the same about many other murderers, who, on the face of it would be the last person you thought would ever do that.

 

[Alkali Ike]

Law enforcement tactics have improved greatly. They handle incidents like this very differently now compared to say ten years ago.

Unfortunately perpetrators have gotten more creative too.

This guy apparently had plenty of time for planning and was self-funded. Maybe in his sick mind it was the challenge of outwitting modern security measures etc.

 

[ZenG]

The more we can understand about these things and the people that do them the better chance we have of preventing repeats in the future.
.

I seriously doubt anything will be done...except lots of posturing, typecasting, statements and speeches...little else because none of it has made any difference before so far.

Somewhere out there right now I'll bet there's a person sitting contemplating doing the exact same thing (or similar) as this guy did. The person may not yet be aware that he's going to do it but it's gestating in the back of his mind.

All the factors are in place and all he needs is something to trigger it.

Quite likely ( but not always) he will have been " on the radar" once or twice, be it to police or a psychiatrists visit.

He will have slipped through the cracks because " no-one gave it much thought at the time or didn't deem it to be really serious".

Then he will stage the event and people will suffer or die.

Just like this time (although Paddock wasn't, it seems, on anyone's radar.) And the time before that...and the time before that...and..

 

[B-line]

So he was "clean as a whistle" and nobody saw it coming.

Well you can say the same about suicides too..including some famous celebrities. You can also say the same about many other murderers, who, on the face of it would be the last person you thought would ever do that.

"Zen" G, your replies are tiring. This was a tragedy, and you seem intent on forcing your opinions down the throat...
Here, one by one:

and its said we only actively use a small percentage of our brains as is.

.
That's actually an often repeated myth that isn't true.

Where are your credentials as a neurologist? What impels you to make a statement that you assume is true...because you say so?


So he was "clean as a whistle" and nobody saw it coming.

Well you can say the same about suicides too..including some famous celebrities. You can also say the same about many other murderers, who, on the face of it would be the last person you thought would ever do that.

We're talking about THIS shooter here. WHAT is your point??

As if, seeing as how he's dead, he could care less what his "punishment" is.

His punishment is that he was driven somehow to do this, and wound up dead. No more gambling, no more guns.
And as I mentioned, a legacy of being one of the worst mass murderers of all time.

I live here. This morning, as I had breakfast at a place mostly patronized by locals, it was easy to see how everyone was dealing with this internally. It hits hard when it happens close to home, on the streets and places you know well.

PLEASE don't impose your supposed "wit" and comebacks anymore. This now should be a thread to reflect on the tragedy and mourn for those injured directly or as a result of this act of terrorism and cowardice.
I actually get tired from reading comebacks like yours that have nothing to do with the act itself, but rather your attempts to to refute how others view what happened and why, simply for the sake of your ego.

Thanks in advance. If you do choose to reply/counter, go ahead, enjoy yourself by yourself. I'm done responding to those type of IMO useless comments.

 

[Alkali Ike]

CNN is saying the guy had 50 lbs of explosives and 1600 rounds of ammo in his car. That suggests he might have expected to get out of the hotel room alive and do more damage.

 

[ZenG]

The shooter got away with nothing, and I'll tell you why I think that:
I won't go into "spiritual" reasons like "karma" and the hereafter, etc. that's too esoteric. (Although there may be some validity in all that-who knows for sure?)
But IMO-
The only thing we leave behind is our legacy. How we treated others while here, and what effect our lives had on others, good and bad.
Quite obviously, the legacy of this twisted individual is set in stone- An evil,sick, and tormented person who would not seek help or try and fix what was troubling him, but instead chose to go out taking his own life, but not before destroying the lives of 58 others and their families and loved ones; and also will undoubtedly leave many hundreds who survived with terrible wounds, physical and mental, that will last for the rest of their lives.

Maybe that's how he wanted it- he was certainly that skewed, but nonetheless. He will always be synonymous with one of the worst deeds ever done in the history of man.
That- IMO- is not getting away with it, and I'm not just playing semantics.

One more thing: He seemed to be a man of some wealth, there may be holes in that too, but- I hope that every nickle
and dime he ever accumulated, along with the proceeds from the sale of everything he owns be turned over to a fund for the victims. How about that??

This is your opinion (which,of course, you are entitled to).

Guess I can express mine as well.

 

[rigorous bass]

I'm going to turn on the news now to get the latest.

I live 20 minutes away from the Strip; thank goodness we were not working there this Sunday.
This was done either by a Terrorist or a demented individual; I understand the shooter was killed as well, so time will tell.

I am sorry to say, that with the incidents around the World- I figured sadly it was only a matter of time before Las Vegas became a target.
Millions of Tourists, Visitors, and locals alike, in any number of venues and areas both Downtown and on the Strip, even in the 'burbs where we live.
Striking terror here could have a profound effect on the economy, and make Visitors and locals alike afraid of more of the same happening.

Kudos to the First-Responders and Law enforcement for hopefully ending this siege. The Las Vegas Metro Police are tough; they take no BS from anyone, and keep a tight lid and control on a "Party Town". I'm glad they do what they do.

I was shocked and saddened to hear this- This is where I live.

Hey there. Where do you play? I live in Vegas as well and have played at Mandalay Bay pretty regularly over the last 13 years. It was a complete shock watching the Breaking News report come in. When they showed that first clip I realized many people were going to be hurt. My heart dropped and I felt like throwing up immediately. My girl actually played there Saturday but we were both off Sunday. I usually play at one of the casinos on Sunday but was given this particular one off. I have three musician friends who barely made it out with no injuries but many people were shot just feet away from them. One of these guys is actually one of my agents that books me. His band was one of the opening acts for Jason Aldean that night. I didn't plan on going to the festival but had I been invited, there is a really good chance I would've gone. I can't imagine what all these good people went through, how helpless they must've felt. My heart deeply goes out to the deceased, injured and the ones that will never be able to forget the terror they felt! Another band that I sub for regularly played at MB last night and the guitar player told me the feeling in the air was so empty.....It's going to take some time but we as a community will bounce back. We have to! Music heals all!!

 

[mellowinman]

Does not the act of suicide before facing lethal challenge denote cowardice? At least to some extent?

If a complete lack of understanding of mental health helps you feel better, then yes.

 

[guy n. cognito]

If a complete lack of understanding of mental health helps you feel better, then yes.

Mental illness doesn't exclude the possibility of cowardice. If there is evidence of the contrary, please quote your source.

 

[B-line]

This is your opinion (which,of course, you are entitled to).

Guess I can express mine as well.

Knock yerself out.

 

[B-line]

Hey there. Where do you play? I live in Vegas as well and have played at Mandalay Bay pretty regularly over the last 13 years. It was a complete shock watching the Breaking News report come in. When they showed that first clip I realized many people were going to be hurt. My heart dropped and I felt like throwing up immediately. My girl actually played there Saturday but we were both off Sunday. I usually play at one of the casinos on Sunday but was given this particular one off. I have three musician friends who barely made it out with no injuries but many people were shot just feet away from them. One of these guys is actually one of my agents that books me. His band was one of the opening acts for Jason Aldean that night. I didn't plan on going to the festival but had I been invited, there is a really good chance I would've gone. I can't imagine what all these good people went through, how helpless they must've felt. My heart deeply goes out to the deceased, injured and the ones that will never be able to forget the terror they felt! Another band that I sub for regularly played at MB last night and the guitar player told me the feeling in the air was so empty.....It's going to take some time but we as a community will bounce back. We have to! Music heals all!!

Rigorous, I live in Henderson; we play right now about 90% Corporate, but may resume doing shows for Boyd Gaming & Station Casinos over the Holidays- (I much prefer Corporate gigs; they pay better and are less draining!)

We've also performed at Mandalay, very classy place.

The first early report I heard mentioned (2) dead, at that point I thought that the incident was a "one-on-one" type altercation or something of that sort, but as the situation became clear, and the toll started to rise and rise...
You know the feeling. I just found out a friend of ours was there, she had left early, before the shooting started, thank goodness. I also know someone who along with about 50 others, had to hide in a large cooler/refrigerator backstge until they figured out what had happened.
I mentioned earlier that I had always felt it would only be a matter of time before someone chose the Strip as a target to act out whatever agenda of destruction they may want to carry out- Crowded with people, high-profile, and a mecca for the media-IF someone wishes to strike right at the heart of what good recreation and fun in America is about; this is the place.
We rarely work Sundays, although we have in the past. I'm thankful that fate didn't put us near the Strip that day.

Again, high-praise to the First-responders; Metro in particular was an incredible force in keeping the pandemonium from getting worse, as were random motorists who loaded their vehicles with victims and rushed them to the Hospital before
EMT's could arrive. Truly inspiring, and a great show of what "Vegas Strong!" is about.

I'm a relative newbie here, but Vegas is my home now, and I'm proud to be a part of what this City stands for and provides.

 

[B-line]

Mental illness doesn't exclude the possibility of cowardice. If there is evidence of the contrary, please quote your source.

I agree with you 110%.

Back a few years, one of the "Hillside Stranglers" lawyer's was adamant in using the "split-personality" defense. He suggested that the defendant (Bianchi, IIRC) had (2) separate and distinct personalities; certainly a form of mental illness.
It was argued that (1) personality was a killer; the other was not, so he could not be held totally accountable for committing the crimes...

When asked what he thought of this, the Veteran Detective who made the arrest said:

"I agree, they should exonerate the innocent personality, and HANG the other one!"

Point is- no doubt the Vegas shooter had some type of mental illness. He was however, also a coward who took on the role of G*D; standing on an elevated perch, picking off others totally at random, and then when about to be faced by SWAT-who had guns as well- could not confront, but chose to end his own sad existence as well.

Mental illness is a sad and terrible issue in this Country, and many resources for identification and treatment have been cut by budget, etc. But it cannot be used as a shield for someone who chooses to act out in a horriric manner like this event.
Remember- many people, thank goodness, recognize their issues, or their families do, and direct that person to get help.
Maybe this shooters GF should have spoke out after seeing him buy 40+ guns in a year, IDK, I won't judge.
She's being questioned. One comment I heard from an Investigator is that "It's not uncommon for someone in this region (Southwest) to own a large number of firearms" This is true, many people are gun collectors and hunters.
This guy (the shooter) was not- By all info, he was a recluse, a loner, a heavy gambler, who did nothing that would put him under suspicion to explode- No "Facebook" posts; nothing.
He also again-IMO- was a mentally-impaired coward.

 

[mellowinman]

Mental illness doesn't exclude the possibility of cowardice. If there is evidence of the contrary, please quote your source.

Shoes don't exclude the possibility of galoshes. You cite your study refuting that, and I'll mail you all the cereal box tops I have saved since the early 60s. There's getting to be QUITE the collection...

 

[mellowinman]

I agree with you 110%.

Back a few years, one of the "Hillside Stranglers" lawyer's was adamant in using the "split-personality" defense. He suggested that the defendant (Bianchi, IIRC) had (2) separate and distinct personalities; certainly a form of mental illness.
It was argued that (1) personality was a killer; the other was not, so he could not be held totally accountable for committing the crimes...

When asked what he thought of this, the Veteran Detective who made the arrest said:

"I agree, they should exonerate the innocent personality, and HANG the other one!"

Point is- no doubt the Vegas shooter had some type of mental illness. He was however, also a coward who took on the role of G*D; standing on an elevated perch, picking off others totally at random, and then when about to be faced by SWAT-who had guns as well- could not confront, but chose to end his own sad existence as well.

Mental illness is a sad and terrible issue in this Country, and many resources for identification and treatment have been cut by budget, etc. But it cannot be used as a shield for someone who chooses to act out in a horriric manner like this event.
Remember- many people, thank goodness, recognize their issues, or their families do, and direct that person to get help.
Maybe this shooters GF should have spoke out after seeing him buy 40+ guns in a year, IDK, I won't judge.
She's being questioned. One comment I heard from an Investigator is that "It's not uncommon for someone in this region (Southwest) to own a large number of firearms" This is true, many people are gun collectors and hunters.
This guy (the shooter) was not- By all info, he was a recluse, a loner, a heavy gambler, who did nothing that would put him under suspicion to explode- No "Facebook" posts; nothing.
He also again-IMO- was a mentally-impaired coward.

Statistically speaking, studies show that it is not possible to agree with someone more than 100%.

 

[B-line]

Statistically speaking, studies show that it is not possible to agree with someone more than 100%.

I just broke the mold, then.

 

[guy n. cognito]

Shoes don't exclude the possibility of galoshes. You cite your study refuting that, and I'll mail you all the cereal box tops I have saved since the early 60s. There's getting to be QUITE the collection...

Have a good day, mellow.....

 

[SuperK]

All the news outlets are reporting “59 killed” in the incident yet one of those was the shooter. Why do they include him in the total? It seems disrespectful to those that were killed to lump their killer in with them as if he were a victim. I see this all the time in other murder/suicide stories. Why?

Sorry. Just a nitpick thing of mine.

 

[slobake]

all the cereal box tops I have saved since the early 60s. There's getting to be QUITE the collection...

I'll trade you three Fruity Pebbles for one Frankenberry