Double Bass LDS's New 1x8 3 way Speaker Cabinet - Initial Impressions

[macmrkt]

Funny you should mention that: a friend of mine, Zach Brock (an excellent jazz violinist out of Chicago) just left me a message saying tht he had just gotten off the phone with ______ at LDS and basically ordered exactly that. I've been trying to help Zach score a VL-208 for some time now, with little or no luck. He's got a VL108 that he loves, but needs something that moves more air for louder venues. With any luck, I'll get to check it out next time he's in town, and I'll be sure to report in if I do. Wouldn't it be great if there was something like the VL-208 that was still in production?

Chris - have you been following the posts in the "NEW VL208" thread? I was wondering if there's a way to keep the ball rolling. Also, Don should have a 2x8 3-way with 1 mid and 1 tweeter just about ready for me. I'll report on it as soon as I get it. I don't know if he feels a second mid is necessary with the very fast Neo 8's he uses...

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Chris - have you been following the posts in the "NEW VL208" thread? I was wondering if there's a way to keep the ball rolling. Also, Don should have a 2x8 3-way with 1 mid and 1 tweeter just about ready for me. I'll report on it as soon as I get it. I don't know if he feels a second mid is necessary with the very fast Neo 8's he uses...

I've been following the thread, but since I already have two 208's and two 108's at this point, I'm all set. But please do report in when your box arrives!

 

[Tom Baldwin]

Chris - have you been following the posts in the "NEW VL208" thread? I was wondering if there's a way to keep the ball rolling. Also, Don should have a 2x8 3-way with 1 mid and 1 tweeter just about ready for me. I'll report on it as soon as I get it. I don't know if he feels a second mid is necessary with the very fast Neo 8's he uses...

I think this will be my next step as well. Will your 8s be vertically aligned, or what? What are the dimensions and weight? Will it be a 4 or 8 ohm cab? Cost?

Don is probably right about only needing one mid. The neo drivers, aside from being fast, are much more midrangey (according to Don and IMO). I am really liking my LDS 1x8 for drummerless things. The clarity is astonishing. I also used it on a quartet gig with drums, in a medium-sized (200 seat) auditorium and I thought it was up to the task with no problem. I don't think it was overtaxed, but i like the idea of having plenty in reserve even if I never need it.

 

[macmrkt]

I think this will be my next step as well. Will your 8s be vertically aligned, or what? What are the dimensions and weight? Will it be a 4 or 8 ohm cab? Cost?

Don is probably right about only needing one mid. The neo drivers, aside from being fast, are much more midrangey (according to Don and IMO). I am really liking my LDS 1x8 for drummerless things. The clarity is astonishing. I also used it on a quartet gig with drums, in a medium-sized (200 seat) auditorium and I thought it was up to the task with no problem. I don't think it was overtaxed, but i like the idea of having plenty in reserve even if I never need it.

The 2x8 3way will be 4 ohm, I think! It is 20"h x 14" w x 16"d, but those are my designations for which is 'height' and which is 'width'...it may be a horizontal style that I run vertical. However, I'm pretty sure the 8's are in-line. I think the weight would be in the low 30lb. range. Price is around $450. I'm being a bit vague because Don tends to be close to what he quotes, but along the way, there can be slight changes due to the custom nature of his operation. I'm also finding the 1x8 to sound big, and after using it for a month, it's definately deeper and bigger sounding. I don't think I've tested its limits.

 

[macmrkt]

I've been following the thread, but since I already have two 208's and two 108's at this point, I'm all set. But please do report in when your box arrives!

Chris - do you have any suggestions about 'advertising' this possible reissue in a more widespread manner on talkbass? As a 'press release' on the home page? As a thread on the BG side? As a sidebar ad? Is there any possibility for calling it a talkbass.com reissue as a win-win for everyone? Any ideas would be much appreciated.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Chris - do you have any suggestions about 'advertising' this possible reissue in a more widespread manner on talkbass? As a 'press release' on the home page? As a thread on the BG side? As a sidebar ad? Is there any possibility for calling it a talkbass.com reissue as a win-win for everyone? Any ideas would be much appreciated.

I just started a thread in the BG Amps forum with a link to the VL208 thread down here. Assuming the mods don't have a problem with it, that should divert enough traffic to the issue to see if there's enough interest or not. Good luck!

 

[rpatter]

When I ordered the Acme Low B-1, I was a little concerned about efficiency, but, as it turns out, it's not that big of a deal for my application for use with the double bass at low to moderate volume. While the Acme is definitely a lot less efficient than the very highest efficiency speakers, it's not really that much less efficent than many average efficiency cabs I'm familiar with. It's a relative thing I think.

What I think would be more of an issue for many people is the sound of the Acme (or maybe lack thereof). If someone is used to more traditional musical intrument speakers, like me, it can take some getting used to a speaker that is very flat with wide bandwidth and also very neutral -- much like a good professional studio monitor. It takes some getting used to as well as working with to get your sound, as it's more of a blank canvas. Not for everyone I'm sure.

Frankly, I'm not particullarly crazy about the Acme for use with bass guitar or for doubling gigs for the above reason. I readily admit I prefer a more colored sound for that. But for pure reproduction of my double bass in a very nice and portable package, I really like the Low B-1.

Of course I'd love to check out an LDS cab sometime. They sound very interesting -- especially a 2X8 design.

-bob

I think you're right about people being put off by the neutrality of the Acme cabs. At one of our rehearsal spaces I use a 3 way cabinet that I built with a 12" woofer and an 8" with a coaxially mounted horn. It is very flat and I find that I end up with more extreme settings on my bass and amp to get a sound that I like.

I designed a 3x8 using the same 8" coax. It's heavier than the 2x8, but still manageable. That speaker would work very well for an upright player that feels the need to have a 3 way. If you are close to Detroit, I plan on having it back in the store some time this week.

Ralf

 

[rpatter]

The 2x8 3way will be 4 ohm, I think! It is 20"h x 14" w x 16"d, but those are my designations for which is 'height' and which is 'width'...it may be a horizontal style that I run vertical. However, I'm pretty sure the 8's are in-line. I think the weight would be in the low 30lb. range. Price is around $450. I'm being a bit vague because Don tends to be close to what he quotes, but along the way, there can be slight changes due to the custom nature of his operation. I'm also finding the 1x8 to sound big, and after using it for a month, it's definately deeper and bigger sounding. I don't think I've tested its limits.

Have you tried the 2x8 with the neo drivers? In my opinion, they don't really need a midrange. They have excellent midrange response.

Ralf

 

[tombowlus]

Have you tried the 2x8 with the neo drivers? In my opinion, they don't really need a midrange. They have excellent midrange response.

Ralf

Wow, I missed a lot of discussion on this thread while I was on vacation! I did, indeed, hear the neo LDS 2x8, and it certainly has a good deal of midrange presence. I'm sure that with an appropriate tweeter and some careful crossover design by Ralf, you really wouldn't need a midrange in this cab. If I were going to use a midrange driver (and hence a 3-way design), I would probably go for the non-neo 8's, as they seemed to have more low end response.

Macmrkt, do you want to comment any on the Low B-1 versus LDS 1x8 questions?

 

[macmrkt]

Tom - other than what I listed at the start of this thread, I'm a bit lost as to what else you think I might be able to add...

 

[tombowlus]

Tom - other than what I listed at the start of this thread, I'm a bit lost as to what else you think I might be able to add...

Whoops! I forgot that it was this thread wherein you posted your comments on the Low B-1's!

Sorry, Tom.

 

[macmrkt]

Now that I've got you...I'm really enjoying the VL110. The LDS 1x8 is a tad clearer and maybe a bit more revealing, but the VL110 has extra 'headroom' on the bottom. The 1x8 gets surprisingly deep, but the VL110 whomps more. I'm using a Clarus SL and a DB for both. So my question to you, is how would you compare the VL110 and the Acme B1? I got the VL110 after the B1's went somewhere! so I couldn't do the comparison between these two 3way 10" minis.

 

[tombowlus]

Now that I've got you...I'm really enjoying the VL110. The LDS 1x8 is a tad clearer and maybe a bit more revealing, but the VL110 has extra 'headroom' on the bottom. The 1x8 gets surprisingly deep, but the VL110 whomps more. I'm using a Clarus SL and a DB for both. So my question to you, is how would you compare the VL110 and the Acme B1? I got the VL110 after the B1's went somewhere! so I couldn't do the comparison between these two 3way 10" minis.

Well, I was out on vacation for the past 10 days or so (first one in over 2 years!), and I have been so busy that I haven't had much time to A/B the ACME's to any other cabs. But that is a comparison that is on my short list!

Tom.

 

[macmrkt]

There is a small problem, which I have to ask Don about. As the volume starts to rise into what I would consider medium range, I get a very rapid flitting or soft distortion on the low notes (E through G). It sounds like it's going through a phase shifter, or when you're tuning in between AM radio stations and the static swoops in and out. It is very slight, only noticeable when I play alone, and sort of separate from the note itself. I can diminish it by adjusting the low cut filter, but I wonder about this.

I'm quite certain about where this fuzz distortion on the lowest string positions comes from for me in quiet practice situations now. After fooling around a bit, I don't think it's chuffing. As you said, it's not apparent on gigs. I believe it's a type of amplifier distortion coming from too hot a signal (low 'E' string excursions) overdriving one of the gain stages at those very low output levels. Once you turn up past background levels such as in a group situation, it's gone. It's electronics related, not speaker. And it's probably not a defect.

 

[The Jazz Lawyer]

I thought you guys would get a kick out of this picture. Just don't ask me which one I lilke the best....

Here is a very high level summary of my findings:

Setup - New Standard LaScala; blend of AMT and Realist (75/25 AMT/Realist): WW Ultra (flat).

CXL112 - too flabby (the only reason I still have this one is that it sounds good with my keyboard).

VL110 - good detail, a little nasal but if I didn't have the others to choose from, this is a great cab. Two is even better. When I do a doubling gig, I pair one of these with a VL208. Two VL110s for electric only sounds very good indeed.

VL208 - overall good cabs. Nice lows without being boomy, good mids and highs - very natural. The best of the bunch. Pairing two is just more of the same.

GK Combo - I use this combo because it is soooo damn portable. The sound leaves alot to be desired but in the end it cuts through the mix and gets your sound out into the room. I keep the EQ set flat. Never boost the lows as it just gets boomy.

LDS 1x8 - it has all been said above about this cab. It really is a nice sounding cab. Great detail, good lows without being boomy. You can really be heard with this cab and it is very natural sounding. The portability is obviously awesome. This cab kills the GK. Very similar to the VL110 without being nasal. Not as big or as low as the VL208 but very close.

If I had to pick between the VL208, the VL110 and the LDS 1x8, it would be very hard indeed. They all sound great and each has its place in the arsenal.

 

[tombowlus]

I thought you guys would get a kick out of this picture. Just don't ask me which one I lilke the best....

Here is a very high level summary of my findings:

Setup - New Standard LaScala; blend of AMT and Realist (75/25 AMT/Realist): WW Ultra (flat).

CXL112 - too flabby (the only reason I still have this one is that it sounds good with my keyboard).

VL110 - good detail, a little nasal but if I didn't have the others to choose from, this is a great cab. Two is even better. When I do a doubling gig, I pair one of these with a VL208. Two VL110s for electric only sounds very good indeed.

VL208 - overall good cabs. Nice lows without being boomy, good mids and highs - very natural. The best of the bunch. Pairing two is just more of the same.

GK Combo - I use this combo because it is soooo damn portable. The sound leaves alot to be desired but in the end it cuts through the mix and gets your sound out into the room. I keep the EQ set flat. Never boost the lows as it just gets boomy.

LDS 1x8 - it has all been said above about this cab. It really is a nice sounding cab. Great detail, good lows without being boomy. You can really be heard with this cab and it is very natural sounding. The portability is obviously awesome. This cab kills the GK. Very similar to the VL110 without being nasal. Not as big or as low as the VL208 but very close.

If I had to pick between the VL208, the VL110 and the LDS 1x8, it would be very hard indeed. They all sound great and each has its place in the arsenal.

Finally, someone I can relate to! Maybe it has to do with being bass-playing lawyers, or something... Actually, there seem to be quite a few of us gearaholics out there.

Nice review, and great comments! Very similar to my own take on these cabs. And don't ask me to choose favorites, either!

Later, Tom.

 

[macmrkt]

Hear Hear! I also concur, having a similar setup. The VL110, 208 and LDS 1x8 3way are also my three favorites to date. Next up...LDS 2x8 3way due in the next month.

 

[tombowlus]

Hear Hear! I also concur, having a similar setup. The VL110, 208 and LDS1x8 3way are also my three favorites to date. Next up...LDS 2x8 3way due in the next month.

Can't wait for the review!

 

[Tom Baldwin]

Hear Hear! I also concur, having a similar setup. The VL110, 208 and LDS1x8 3way are also my three favorites to date. Next up...LDS 2x8 3way due in the next month.

Say, mac, did you get your LDS 2x8 yet?

 

[tombowlus]

Say, mac, did you get your LDS 2x8 yet?

He did, along with another LDS 3-way 1x8, though he somehow ended up sending his first LDS 3-way up to Fremont, Ohio...