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Double Bass LDS's New 1x8 3 way Speaker Cabinet - Initial Impressions

#81
tombowlus said:
He did, along with another LDS 3-way 1x8, though he somehow ended up sending his first LDS 3-way up to Fremont, Ohio... ;)
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My favorite local drummer is so enamored of the sound of two VL108's as compared to a single VL208 that I'm very intrigued by this news. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, I haven't seen you compare the LDS 3-way to the VL108. If and when you do, please post! T-BAG thought I was kidding when I wondered aloud about the idea of an LDS "double 3-way" stacked cab with a swivel mount between the two and a stand mount on the bottom.

Mwuhahahahahahahaaaa! :ninja:
 
#82
Chris Fitzgerald said:
My favorite local drummer is so enamored of the sound of two VL108's as compared to a single VL208 that I'm very intrigued by this news. Unless I'm greatly mistaken, I haven't seen you compare the LDS 3-way to the VL108. If and when you do, please post! T-BAG thought I was kidding when I wondered aloud about the idea of an LDS "double 3-way" stacked cab with a swivel mount between the two and a stand mount on the bottom.

Mwuhahahahahahahaaaa! :ninja:
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I will try to get that comparison done here shortly. BTW, Mac has a second (well, third actually) LDS 3-way 1x8 on its way, too! The other two both have L-pads for the tweeter on the side of the cab (and therefore I bought his now "inferior" rear-attenuator LDS 1x8! :p).

Tom.
 
#83
Chris Fitzgerald said:
My favorite local drummer is so enamored of the sound of two VL108's as compared to a single VL208 that I'm very intrigued by this news.
Click to expand...

I spoke to Don last week and mentioned your swivel-stack 108 idea. While I missed most of his response as the conversation was moving over so many topics, I think he had an order in to build something like this and was already working on it.
 
#84
The Jazz Lawyer said:
I thought you guys would get a kick out of this picture. Just don't ask me which one I lilke the best....

Here is a very high level summary of my findings:

Setup - New Standard LaScala; blend of AMT and Realist (75/25 AMT/Realist): WW Ultra (flat).

CXL112 - too flabby (the only reason I still have this one is that it sounds good with my keyboard).

VL110 - good detail, a little nasal but if I didn't have the others to choose from, this is a great cab. Two is even better. When I do a doubling gig, I pair one of these with a VL208. Two VL110s for electric only sounds very good indeed.

VL208 - overall good cabs. Nice lows without being boomy, good mids and highs - very natural. The best of the bunch. Pairing two is just more of the same.

GK Combo - I use this combo because it is soooo damn portable. The sound leaves alot to be desired but in the end it cuts through the mix and gets your sound out into the room. I keep the EQ set flat. Never boost the lows as it just gets boomy.

LDS 1x8 - it has all been said above about this cab. It really is a nice sounding cab. Great detail, good lows without being boomy. You can really be heard with this cab and it is very natural sounding. The portability is obviously awesome. This cab kills the GK. Very similar to the VL110 without being nasal. Not as big or as low as the VL208 but very close.

If I had to pick between the VL208, the VL110 and the LDS 1x8, it would be very hard indeed. They all sound great and each has its place in the arsenal.
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Excuse my bringing this review up again, but, it really is spot on IMHO. I have basically the same bass, but running with a K&K BMP (although I'm aiming to going mic this summer), most of the same cabs and a Focus or iAMP instead of the WW. This concise review really nails the differences. And herein lies the key - the VL's and LDS are really very close in the larger scheme of things. But when you run them in a comparison test, you hear a couple of things that are different. They all seem to be after the same goal - accuracy - but get to it a bit differently.

Most of my recent experience is with the VL110 vs. the LDS 1x8. The LDS had more of the DB's wood tone, with the VL110 'adding' more low end, but in a pleasing way. However, the VL110 is nasally - a great word for it - compared to the LDS, and that's very noticable.

I just got a chance to try my new LDS 2x8 3way with the band. It's a 4 ohm, neo driver, 39lbs cab that's about 16.5 x 20.5 x 16.5. I am running it vertically, and the 8's are in the 45 degree off-center array. I plugged it in the same exact setup that was powering my VL110...and since this was the setup that I've used exclusively for over a month, it's what I've gotten used to. The biggest impression in this very preliminary comparison (mind you the LDS wasn't broken-in yet) is that the LDS is a much dryer and more accurate sound. Like a plastic filter was removed from the VL110. I was seriously thinking that maybe the VL110 was more accurate at first and it was revealing the piezo sound of my pickups. But I'm fairly convinced that's not the case. The LDS is more accurate. The LDS also goes deeper, as is more even in tone across the spectrum. All in all, a really nice cabinet. Of course, the big test comes later this week when I bring over the VL208 to compare...
 
#85
macmrkt said:
I spoke to Don last week and mentioned your swivel-stack 108 idea. While I missed most of his response as the conversation was moving over so many topics, I think he had an order in to build something like this and was already working on it.
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Drool. :D

I will be waiting with baited breath (nightcrawlers) for any new information you hear about this. If it turns out the THUMB STEINWAY is the person who placed that order, I'll sue the basstid for stealing my idea. :spit:
 
#87
Don has the new B&C (I think that's the company?) Neo 8" speakers available now. He is building a 3x8 Neo with Selenium tweeter for me (along with the sprayed-on covering). Should be awesome. The 16ohm speakers are now available (resulting in a 5.3 ohm cab).

I had the honor of testing the 1x8" 3 way in the shop for Don prior to shipping.... what a WONDERFUL cab. I was playing a Celinder with roundwounds through it (not exactly a DB(!), but thought I'd post to indicate how versatile that cab seems to be), and it just 'sang'.
 
#88
rpatter said:
I designed the crossover on the LDS 8" cab. It's close to studio monitor quality (pretty flat), it's just a rather small cab to be putting double bass through.

Ralf
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A question about the design of the LDS 8" 3way cabinets and complaints about chuffing and harshness at louder volumes. I have 3 LDS cabinets ( 2 8" 3ways and a 12") and was thinking about adding a attenuating pad for the 5" mid range similar to the one on the tweeter. Would this solve the chuffing and harshness problems? I don't have those problems at the volume I play at but thought it would help balance the overall sound. Any thoughts on the subject?

Eddue
 
#89
Eddue said:
A question about the design of the LDS 8" 3way cabinets and complaints about chuffing and harshness at louder volumes. I have 3 LDS cabinets ( 2 8" 3ways and a 12") and was thinking about adding a attenuating pad for the 5" mid range similar to the one on the tweeter. Would this solve the chuffing and harshness problems? I don't have those problems at the volume I play at but thought it would help balance the overall sound. Any thoughts on the subject?

Eddue
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It would not solve chuffing, which is air flowing through the port at excessive speed (usually considered to be about 1/20 the speed of sound, as I recall). This air is produced by low frequencies from the woofer (only) and can be tamed by redesigning the port. The problem is that the port length required to lower the air velocity can be impossible for some woofer/cabinet combinations to achieve (e.g., a 30" duct required in a 12" cubic cabinet).

For my part, any chuffing in my 1x8 hasn't bothered me nearly as much as the overall brightness of the cabinet. Though I admire how the brightness allows precious overtones to cut through, I would prefer a more natural, accurate response. I wonder whether it would be an improvement to ditch the tweeter and move the L-pad to the 5" incher which would become the mid/tweeter.

After playing my J-bass through the cabinet a lot more, I'm almost more impressed by its sound for electric use. It's a pretty awesome sound for its size/wt.
 
#90
well the chuffing (like someone early in this thread suggested) aint much of a bother on the gig. It is noticeable if you have the bass cranked in your living room but I stopped thinking about it months ago. People keep commenting on the harshness...Maybe because i have such a dark sounding instrument I don't feel that it is all that harsh.(the Vektor does not have the piezo harshness either so that might be a factor too)The GK with an underwood sounds harsh to me, but this sounds accurate and it cuts thru and the schlep is the best i've ewver had. Now I don't have either the money or inclination to test all of the 1x8 cabs out there. I have heard the EA 1x8 and that sounds like butta to me but I have not seen one for sale EVER.
 
#91
I just ordered my 2nd LDS 1x8 from Don. This one with a pole mount on top. I plan to run a short pole between them. I have found with the 1x8 that it sounds vastly different on a stand as opposed to on the ground. I think the idea of having 2 of them with a pole between (one on the floor) will sound great...but we'll see. I like the idea of being able to aim them in different directions...I play on a few shallow stages where it is really hard to hear each other. I hope aiming one of the 1x8's toward the drummer and one toward me will get me the sound I am looking for. The 1x8 on the floor can project a lot of bass (for upright in jazz) and on a stand the bass is diminished a lot but it sure cuts thru. I keep wanting both at the same time and hope that the 2 1x8's are at least close enough to the famed 2x8 sound to make the pole thing an advantage. BTW the Avalon U5 (Focus III) with the LDS1x8 is a different and very good sounding preamp.
 
#92
This sounds pretty cool. I tried something similar (floor + raised) on a gig last week, without the pole dealy. I had my old Contra on the floor, facing me, to the right of the piano player so he could hear me. Then I put my Contra EX up on a barstool, also facing me, next to the drummer, so he could hear me too. The two Contras were on adjacent walls that formed a 90 degree angle, and I was standing right in the crossfire zone. I think it worked pretty well.

This particular room is real, real bad for crowd noise, and requires mucho reinforcement. It gets so bad sometimes that the piano player can't clearly hear the ride cymbal and hi-hat, and the time pushes and pulls and slides all over the place. I thought maybe if they could both hear me more clearly, maybe I could help keep it together.

And like you said, I wanted to see what the floor + raised combination sounded like too. Best of both worlds so to speak.

Kinda reminds me of the Scherter Pub 1/380 and 2/280.

Did I just say Schertler? :eek:
 
#93
bolo said:
This sounds pretty cool. I tried something similar (floor + raised) on a gig last week, without the pole dealy. I had my old Contra on the floor, facing me, to the right of the piano player so he could hear me. Then I put my Contra EX up on a barstool, also facing me, next to the drummer, so he could hear me too. The two Contras were on adjacent walls that formed a 90 degree angle, and I was standing right in the crossfire zone. I think it worked pretty well.

This particular room is real, real bad for crowd noise, and requires mucho reinforcement. It gets so bad sometimes that the piano player can't clearly hear the ride cymbal and hi-hat, and the time pushes and pulls and slides all over the place. I thought maybe if they could both hear me more clearly, maybe I could help keep it together.

And like you said, I wanted to see what the floor + raised combination sounded like too. Best of both worlds so to speak.

Kinda reminds me of the Scherter Pub 1/380 and 2/280.

Did I just say Schertler? :eek:
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Yea steve,
I saw that schertler combo too. I thought it was a nice idea. My thinking is that the 1x8 on the floor will have enough bass not to need a sub. But i was thinking about getting a 1x12 or 1x10 for the bottom. In the end Don had another 1x8 ready (2way) and aold it for a really good price so I went with that.
I wonder what Chris's impressions of the LDS VS EA now that he's had em for a minute?
 
#94
bolo said:
And like you said, I wanted to see what the floor + raised combination sounded like too. Best of both worlds so to speak.
Click to expand...

I have a Contra EX (usually with the tilt-peg used) that does nicely at straight-ahead gigs, but for the Latin band, with all those noisy people hitting things, I add my Ampeg PB110 (forward-firing 10" + tweeter) on a chair or stool so that I can hear myself. My (AI) amp sits on the Contra and my pre-amp sits within reach on the Ampeg.

I'd like to find a stand that would allow the Contra to go on the floor, with the stand holding the PB110 right above it at about waist/chest height. Of course I'd like it to fold up to the weight and size of an iPod, too. :D

Andy
 
#95
I just re-read my comments from before. I guess the chuffing actually could be cured in a small cabinet with a port tube that has bends in it. Like some curved PVC plumbing. Neo drivers still pay a low frequency penalty for their low weight, though I don't technically know why.

Re the Avalon, I did buy the used U5 I tried, and have tried it w/ the LDS via my Clarus's effects return input for power amp only. In my home I don't hear a HUGE improvement, and tone flexibility is of course lost, but the U5 does seem to improve the sound nonetheless. It's still a little hollow-sounding compared to the U5 -> Pub, but the LDS+Clarus is a lot lighter to carry.
 
#96
flatback said:
I wonder what Chris's impressions of the LDS VS EA now that he's had em for a minute?
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I'm on jury duty (started right after the camps :rollno:), so my only experience with the LDS is not side by side with the EA 108. That said, it got a nice realistic sound when I used it for faculty student sessions with a drummer, and I don't really have any complaints so far. I don't think it's enough to carry a room on a gig with most drummers, but I like it for rehearsals and drummerless stuff. More to come.
 
#97
airbass said:
I'd like to find a stand that would allow the Contra to go on the floor, with the stand holding the PB110 right above it at about waist/chest height. Of course I'd like it to fold up to the weight and size of an iPod, too. :D
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Hey pal. I have a QuikLok BS-619 amp stand, which allows me to get the bottom of my EA cab almost 3 feet off the floor, and I really like that. But it is a pig as Uncletoad would say. Not exactly a featherweight at 9.5 lbs.

I did try "stacking" my Contra and Contra EX once like you described, but actually it didn't really wow me like I thought it might. I might try it again sometime though.
 
#98
flatback said:
I just ordered my 2nd LDS 1x8 from Don. This one with a pole mount on top. I plan to run a short pole between them. I have found with the 1x8 that it sounds vastly different on a stand as opposed to on the ground. I think the idea of having 2 of them with a pole between (one on the floor) will sound great...but we'll see. I like the idea of being able to aim them in different directions...I play on a few shallow stages where it is really hard to hear each other. I hope aiming one of the 1x8's toward the drummer and one toward me will get me the sound I am looking for. The 1x8 on the floor can project a lot of bass (for upright in jazz) and on a stand the bass is diminished a lot but it sure cuts thru. I keep wanting both at the same time and hope that the 2 1x8's are at least close enough to the famed 2x8 sound to make the pole thing an advantage.
Click to expand...
I find this intriguing (still). Is it working for you? Can we see some pics maybe? (Oops - not even sure it's in your possession yet.)

Can you swivel the top speaker easily once it is set up, or do you have to select the "angle" during set up and pretty much leave it?
 
#99
Played the LDS 1x8 at a little trio fine-dining gig in the courtyard, and found myself a little disappointed - the speaker sounded a little "gooey" and/or "flabby" in the lows, but much better in the mids and highs. To be fair, it was my first time out with it, and I didn't spend much time trying to find the right settings. I'll play it some more in the next few weeks and see if I can figure out a better set of EQ settings.

Just wondering for those in the know, though: what is the usual difference reported between a regular speaker and a "neo" version besides the neo being lighter? Reason I ask is that my LDS is a neo, and I have easy access to regular Eminence 8" drivers if it seemed reasonable to try one out.
 

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