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Lefty Fretless Jazz Bass

#103
Brett Zeppelin said:
Thanks. What is the cause of that orange peel? Am I going too heavy? Not heavy enough (again)? Spraying from too far away? Spraying too close? Can I do better with a rattlecan or is this just how it is?
Click to expand...

Orange peel is caused by the paint flashing off before it has time to level out. Nitro flashes off pretty quickly, which is why retarder helps, but its not an option in a rattle can. A heavier coat takes longer to dry than a light one. The trick is to spray a coat of paint that is on the verge of running, with out crossing the line and running the finish. Knowing how much finish to apply is something you can only learn by experience. You could probably stand to keep your same spray pattern and tempo, just hold the can a few inches closer to your work. Like I said, a little orange peel isn't a big deal, especially with nitro because there are no witness lines to worry about if you sand into a previous layer.
 
#104
Getting close! Try to spray at the coolest part of the day, that will lengthen drying time. From the look of it you can apply more paint per pass. Get closer and/or slow down your passes. Or try 'double coats'. That is: go over the same pass left to right, right to left before overlapping 50% for the next pass L to R, R to L.

IMO you have to run some paint or you'll never really learn how to get a smooth enough finish to only require scuff sanding between coats. Take your pick: Spend lots of time sanding down the entire body that's orange peeled or spend less time (with more paint on the body per coat) sanding a run or two...or three. You'll learn a lot more sanding runs than by just leveling orange peel. Live dangerously! ;)

Painting is no different than playing, it takes practice to get it right.
 
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#105
Dadagoboi said:
Getting close! Try to spray at the coolest part of the day, that will lengthen drying time. From the look of it you can apply more paint per pass. Get closer and/or slow down your passes. Or try 'double coats'. That is: go over the same pass left to right, right to left before overlapping 50% for the next pass L to R, R to L.

IMO you have to run some paint or you'll never really learn how to get a smooth enough finish to only require scuff sanding between coats. Take your pick: Spend lots of time sanding down the entire body that's orange peeled or spend less time (with more paint on the body per coat) sanding a run or two...or three. You'll learn a lot more sanding runs than by just leveling orange peel. Live dangerously! ;)

Painting is no different than playing, it takes practice to get it right.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, I would much rather sand out a run or three than sand out a whole body worth of orange peel.
 
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#106
Hopkins said:
Orange peel is caused by the paint flashing off before it has time to level out. Nitro flashes off pretty quickly, which is why retarder helps, but its not an option in a rattle can. A heavier coat takes longer to dry than a light one. The trick is to spray a coat of paint that is on the verge of running, with out crossing the line and running the finish. Knowing how much finish to apply is something you can only learn by experience. You could probably stand to keep your same spray pattern and tempo, just hold the can a few inches closer to your work. Like I said, a little orange peel isn't a big deal, especially with nitro because there are no witness lines to worry about if you sand into a previous layer.
Click to expand...
Dadagoboi said:
Getting close! Try to spray at the coolest part of the day, that will lengthen drying time. From the look of it you can apply more paint per pass. Get closer and/or slow down your passes. Or try 'double coats'. That is: go over the same pass left to right, right to left before overlapping 50% for the next pass L to R, R to L.

IMO you have to run some paint or you'll never really learn how to get a smooth enough finish to only require scuff sanding between coats. Take your pick: Spend lots of time sanding down the entire body that's orange peeled or spend less time (with more paint on the body per coat) sanding a run or two...or three. You'll learn a lot more sanding runs than by just leveling orange peel. Live dangerously! ;)

Painting is no different than playing, it takes practice to get it right.
Click to expand...
Hopkins said:
I agree with this, I would much rather sand out a run or three than sand out a whole body worth of orange peel.
Click to expand...
Once again, guys: thanks! OK, so where I am now, what should I do? It seems like for right now what I need to do is sand this back a little bit to try and smooth-out that orange peel. Then, after that is done, hit it again but go even more aggressive this time. Is that accurate? I thought for sure when I was blasting it last night that I was going at it way too thick, but it sounds like I should really just go for it even more.

Should I sand at this layer as it is or are the "peels" fine enough that they would get smoothed-over with additional coats of paint? I've got everything ready to go, so whatever is the right thing to do, that's what I want to be doing.
 
#108
Brett Zeppelin said:
Once again, guys: thanks! OK, so where I am now, what should I do? It seems like for right now what I need to do is sand this back a little bit to try and smooth-out that orange peel. Then, after that is done, hit it again but go even more aggressive this time. Is that accurate? I thought for sure when I was blasting it last night that I was going at it way too thick, but it sounds like I should really just go for it even more.

Should I sand at this layer as it is or are the "peels" fine enough that they would get smoothed-over with additional coats of paint? I've got everything ready to go, so whatever is the right thing to do, that's what I want to be doing.
Click to expand...

Sanding it level wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. If you feel you are about to sand down to bare wood, stop and apply more finish.
 
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#111
Hopkins said:
Sanding it level wouldn't be a bad idea at this point. If you feel you are about to sand down to bare wood, stop and apply more finish.
Click to expand...
Dadagoboi said:
Sounds good to me.
Click to expand...
How does 400-grit sound?

I still don't quite understand how smooth to get these layers between coats, but I'll knock down some high spots of the peel and see what that yields.
 
#112
Dadagoboi said:
Getting close! Try to spray at the coolest part of the day, that will lengthen drying time. From the look of it you can apply more paint per pass. Get closer and/or slow down your passes. Or try 'double coats'. That is: go over the same pass left to right, right to left before overlapping 50% for the next pass L to R, R to L.

IMO you have to run some paint or you'll never really learn how to get a smooth enough finish to only require scuff sanding between coats. Take your pick: Spend lots of time sanding down the entire body that's orange peeled or spend less time (with more paint on the body per coat) sanding a run or two...or three. You'll learn a lot more sanding runs than by just leveling orange peel. Live dangerously! ;)

Painting is no different than playing, it takes practice to get it right.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, it's fairly warm here right now, so I don't have a lot of options other than as late in the evening as possible. That's what I did last night. It was about 9:30pm when I sprayed. It was probably 65°F at that time, which is a bit warm even for where I live (on the coast).
 
#114
Dadagoboi said:
Like a lot of work. But probably necessary with how thin rattlecan paint is. I use 240 or 320 to level paint. 400 to scuff sand.
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I have those others that you mention; I just also have 400 and was thinking that's what I should do because I'm a total novice and learning. If 200-300 is what's best, I'm cool with that. I'm also cool with 400 if that is what I need to do. Whatever it takes, man!
 
#115
It pained me to have to sand this last coat, as she was looking pretty good when I got home from work. Here she is after 320-grit sanding to flatten the peel and dull it up a bit, followed by a proper tack-cloth wipe-down and (what I thought was) a pretty heavy coat of paint. It's definitely better than the last coat, which I thought was pretty solid. I still haven't popped my paint run cherry yet, though. I thought for sure I would, as I put this on really thick!

I just about finished with the can of paint, which means over the last two nights I have gone through about one can of paint. If I have to buy another can of paint, I might just cry — not because of the price, but because of the expensive and slow shipping.

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#116
That looks much better. I think you can finish that level that off with 4oo grit, then start on your clear coats

I think I may have discovered part of your orange peel problem though. A tack coat is used on a catalyzed finish. A thin coat that is allowed to dry just enough to get tacky will give the heavier coat something to bite into so it doesn't sag or run. Its not necessary on a nitro finish because each coat burns into the underlying coats causing them to melt. It could be that the thin tack coat you are spraying is flashing off, and orange peeling, and the orange peel is showing through the top coat.
 
#117
Hopkins said:
That looks much better. I think you can finish that level that off with 4oo grit, then start on your clear coats

I think I may have discovered part of your orange peel problem though. A tack coat is used on a catalyzed finish. A thin coat that is allowed to dry just enough to get tacky will give the heavier coat something to bite into so it doesn't sag or run. Its not necessary on a nitro finish because each coat burns into the underlying coats causing them to melt. It could be that the thin tack coat you are spraying is flashing off, and orange peeling, and the orange peel is showing through the top coat.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I am really pleased with the way this looks. Right now, after about an hour or so of curing/drying, this thing looks phenomenal. There may be just a touch of thin spots in the horn cutaways that I think could use another spray; other than that this is really sweet looking and if I didn't know that I was supposed to finish it with a clear, I might think this was finished. That's how nice it looks right now. It's got that mirror-like finish and is very straight, smooth, and clean. To the touch, it feels like a finished product.

There were a couple little dust particles (or something) that settled into this layer, so I'll have to get those out before proceeding.

Would there be any harm in hitting this body again with a 320 and then another healthy coat of color before going to clear? There's also that little notch in the wood from what I believe was a milling nick that is still visible. It's right by the bridge pickup and is bothering the crap out of me.
 
#119
If you are happy with the level of the current coat, no harm in stepping up to 400x paper again. Make sure you change the paper frequently. It will cut smoother and faster. For the small nick, you can try drop filling with CA glue once you are into the clear coats. Assuming of course it is compatible with your clear coat of choice.
Edit: Apparently not advisable with nitro. See Hopkins' response below.
 
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#120
knowledgebass said:
If you are happy with the level of the current coat, no harm in stepping up to 400x paper again. Make sure you change the paper frequently. It will cut smoother and faster. For the small nick, you can try drop filling with CA glue once you are into the clear coats. Assuming of course it is compatible with your clear coat of choice.
Click to expand...

I have had bad luck trying to drop fill mixing CA and nitro. The best thing to drop fill with would be a drop of of the finish.
 

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