For the OP - during the strip / reshape of the neck, did you sand the heel? If so you may have introduced an angle that the shim was not originally intended to correct for. Also if so you will need to correct for the new angle or angles built into the heel with a different shim or shims. I feel your pain. I am pretty good at my own setups but neck to body angling is just a bit beyond me. I had a set of expensive MIA Fender parts I couldn't get to work right AT ALL. The guitar magician in my area (Mike Koontz) made it play like a million $$$. My advice is to seek a higher authority. It is fixable. It is not that expensive.
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Lemons (warning: G&L rant)
- Thread starter smtp4me
- Start date
I'm surprise that no one has mentioned that sanding the finish off the back of the neck has exposed the wood to humidity which can impact the neck such that a truss rod adjustment is now needed regardless of shim replacement.
This is a good point. In my case, I assume that someone who is pretty good at setups is going to dial the relief in before moving on to action height or at least verifying both if there's a problem with the bass setup.
Whenever I join 2 pieces of wood together with screws, I always (when possible) drill a hole just larger than the thickness of the screw through the top piece, with the intention of eliminating any unwanted space between the 2 pieces preventing a snug fit.
I only sanded the back of the neck - the area on the opposite side of the fingerboard. The heel remains untouched.
Years ago, I found a trimmed Tokyo subway ticket in the neck pocket of a Japanese Fender. That was awesome.
The gloss poly finish was removed and replaced with Tru Oil. Each time a new/different shim is tried I tune to pitch and adjust the neck relief first, then bridge saddles etc.
I have no issue getting the neck relief back to my personal spec. I have been able to get all the adjustments somewhat back to normal, except intonation, however there is still some string rattle (when fretted) that didn’t exist before. Which suggests the shim(s) is too thick and causing too much angle. However I have tried shims of many different thickness including as thin as stock computer printer paper.
I hope you don’t work on anyone’s vehicle brakes….
From purchase date to the above event was about two years? Any problems other than the aforementioned seasonal truss rod adjustments? If not, then the bass is still salvageable.
I’ve used sandpaper as a shim material for at least as long as the time period you’ve never seen it used. I really don’t know how many bass necks I’ve shimmed, but I’d guess it to be over a dozen. All were successful as far as I can remember and sandpaper was the shim material in all. Necks don’t shift side to side with a sandpaper shim. Don’t discount the use use of sandpaper. For shim stock; it works well.
Yes, you can. The proof it’s possible is the two years you played the bass before you took it apart.
Disassembling a properly functioning bass & having difficulty reassembling it back to previous playability isn’t the fault of the bass, it’s just an indication you haven’t been successful in getting it properly set up….yet.
Why are you trying to set the intonation when you don’t have the action set properly yet? Intonation is the last step after getting the neck relief & action exactly the way you want it, which you seem to indicate you haven’t achieved yet.
Speaking of neck relief; how do you have that set? Since you’ve had the neck off the bass (under NO tension) and you’ve been sanding &/or scraping on the back of the neck (generating heat & possibly back-bow pressure), there’s a better than average chance the relief needs attention.
You need to re-approach the whole set up process, be more methodical, and don’t give up until it’s back how it was the first two years you owned it.
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I’m not exactly using Mike Lull basses, but similar for me. I’ve taken necks off most of my basses, and only one had a shim (a Squier - and it was also a sandpaper one). None of my Fenders have ever had shims.
Turnaround
Commercial User
The use of a shim to make minor corrections to the neck angle is common practice in factory-produced basses. One may not like it but it's a fact of manufacture. And before someone goes on to say that with modern machinery they should be able to cut it right in the first place, consider the materials we are dealing with. Wood is not a homogenous material that remains stable. So to guarantee a neck angle would entail rough cutting the piece, then letting it sit for some time (up to months), and recutting to final fit. Even that is no guarantee. Factories aren't going to do that - it costs too much.
Analogies are helpful in aiding people understand a circumstance that might be complex or detailed, but thin sandpaper shim in the neck pocket of a bass guitar (very common) and a bicycle held together by duct tape?
How about a bass with a shim in the neck pocket and a bicycle with an extra washer to center the rear axle?
Take a deep breath, relax, your bass is not ruined or a lemon. Fitting a shim can be a painstaking process. You wouldn’t think .005” would make that much of a difference but it can. You have two options, both have already been suggested. Keep trying, with patience you will get it right, or if your patience is gone, take it to a good tech and you’ll get it back playing like you never touched it. If something odd did happen while you had the neck off and sanding/finishing it, your tech will tell you what needs to be done and you can chalk that up to lesson learned.
Reminds me of the programmer story about the pic of the rubber duck in the code, when removed it no longer worked.
A shim is not a patch for a defect. It is a fine adjustment that is often necessary because of normal manufacturing tolerances.
This sounds like an Uber-Minor problem, they put the shim in there for a reason, if it ain't broke..... My 1983 G&L L2k has the original 3-bolt neck joint with a neck-tilt set screw, which I have literally never touched from it's factory setting, never needed to, it's the most stable wood necked bass I've ever owned. That's just a fancier shim. I'll wager a fair number of Fenders have a shim in them, and Stewmac sells pre-made ones. Maybe pick up a couple of the thinnest ones and try it out?
StewMac Neck Shims for Bass - StewMac
StewMac Neck Shims for Bass - StewMac
best idea in your thread, so far! good luck!
FullumMusic
Commercial User
- Oct 13, 2022
- 2,008
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- Audio/Music software developer, contracted with a company you've heard of and deving my own stuff.
This seems like it's just a product of mass produced basses. They're cutting bodies and necks separately, in bulk. They're sanded and finished independent from one another and put on shelves. Then they get an order for some number of basses with Body Style X and Neck Style Y, they pull a bunch of bodies and necks off the shelves and put them together. The joint is generic enough so that any neck will fit into any body they pull. There's gonna be tolerances, and sometimes shims are needed for this style of building.
A G&L LB-100 Tribute isn't necessarily a high-end bass. It's a production model coming off the assembly line. A G&L LB-100 Tribute needing a shim doesn't quite make it a lemon. A lemon would be both faulty from the factory and virtually unfixable. This bass was shimmed so it was working from the factory, and could be fixed again if you put the proper shim in it. Not really a lemon, but annoying that you need to find the exact right shim to get your bass working properly. But a good tech/luth can probably get it firing on all cylinders for you.
With respect to basses coming shimmed from the factory, I know the general consensus is shims are perfectly acceptable. But my non-luthier editorial opinion that's only relevant to me is, if you're buying a top of the line bass, it shouldn't need a shim. It should be built properly. I couldn't imagine spending $2500 on a Fender Ultra, only to find it can't be properly set up without a shim. You're paying for better craftsmanship only to find it's been "hacked" together just like the low-rung instruments. At that price-point, i'd rather spend the extra money on a properly made custom or boutique bass where i know they're making a body and neck specifically for one another, or buy a lower priced mass-produced bass where a shim wouldn't bother me.
Slight tangent but still related: I do wonder if any long-time luths or techs have found shimming using a random "piece-of-thing" (like folded sandpaper) to cause fret-ramping. It seems like having a little bit of material under one side of the neck heel and wrenching down on the bolts could cause warping over time. I would think a wedge shim would work better and prevent ramping. (Although the frets could just be shaved down at the heel to adjust for ramping, i guess.) Still, i would love to know first-hand pro experience.
A G&L LB-100 Tribute isn't necessarily a high-end bass. It's a production model coming off the assembly line. A G&L LB-100 Tribute needing a shim doesn't quite make it a lemon. A lemon would be both faulty from the factory and virtually unfixable. This bass was shimmed so it was working from the factory, and could be fixed again if you put the proper shim in it. Not really a lemon, but annoying that you need to find the exact right shim to get your bass working properly. But a good tech/luth can probably get it firing on all cylinders for you.
With respect to basses coming shimmed from the factory, I know the general consensus is shims are perfectly acceptable. But my non-luthier editorial opinion that's only relevant to me is, if you're buying a top of the line bass, it shouldn't need a shim. It should be built properly. I couldn't imagine spending $2500 on a Fender Ultra, only to find it can't be properly set up without a shim. You're paying for better craftsmanship only to find it's been "hacked" together just like the low-rung instruments. At that price-point, i'd rather spend the extra money on a properly made custom or boutique bass where i know they're making a body and neck specifically for one another, or buy a lower priced mass-produced bass where a shim wouldn't bother me.
Slight tangent but still related: I do wonder if any long-time luths or techs have found shimming using a random "piece-of-thing" (like folded sandpaper) to cause fret-ramping. It seems like having a little bit of material under one side of the neck heel and wrenching down on the bolts could cause warping over time. I would think a wedge shim would work better and prevent ramping. (Although the frets could just be shaved down at the heel to adjust for ramping, i guess.) Still, i would love to know first-hand pro experience.
Change the angle of a neck with StewMac Neck Shims - StewMac
Disclaimer: I'm not qualified to say what is the best method of shimming a bass. However, there is a Stew Mac tutorial/video that says it's not a good idea to use a partial shim because it leaves a gap between the neck and body wood where moisture can accumulate. In addition, they claim that the air gap is not transferring all the vibrations between the neck and body. What they say makes sense to me. The shims are pricey but they offer various sizes and angles which are very difficult to make with reasonable precision.
I don't mind paying the price to get it right but how do you know what angle shim you need without buying a compete set and doing a lot of trial and error involving a lot of removing, reinstalling the neck strings and a setup each time to see if you got the right shim? When it comes to properly shimming a neck, I'll just take it to my luthier.
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too bad the name on the headstock is on the hot seat for pure user error......just remember how happy you were with it before disassembly. That's the feeling that should resonate when you think of the name on the headstock in my opinion since that's what it delivered prior to being tinkered with. I wouldn't hesitate to buy any G&L, minus a placentia series.
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