Lemons (warning: G&L rant)

[overit]

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it. lol

Sorry to hear what happened but if it worked fine before you modified it, then I wouldn't call it a lemon. I also once found a bass with a sandpaper shim. It was confusing at first but after removing it, it just wasn't the same. I put it back and it felt just like it did before disassembling.

 

[micguy]

Any decent setup person should be able to get your bass back to decent playing condition. I'm not a fan of shims (none of the 2 dozen basses I've built has ever needed one), but if you're going to use a shim, sandpaper is a decent material, as it helps resist neck movement.

 

[Ellery]

If the bass had an unresolvable issue from the factory, that's a defect. Your bass worked fine, then you disassembled it and did not put it back together the way it came from the factory. Now you have a problem. That's not the factory's fault, it's yours. Bring to someone actually qualified to work on instruments and they will fix it.

 

[MrB64]

Give a guy some tools and he's going to mess with something. It's in our DNA

 

[funkifiedsoul]

6 pages?
Good luck, I'm sure your bass will be fine again really soon.

 

[RodneyM]

I've see sandpaper on shims. They have "bite" so not only is it a shim but can keep a neck from moving on old loose 3 bolts.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Not really sure if this is a cry for help, or just a rant. Maybe both. Apologies if this a little long...

I have a G&L LB-100 Tribute, purchased new about two years ago. I immediately swapped the factory strings for Chromes and set it up to my preferred specs. I've made seasonal adjustments to the truss rod, but no other changes.

I was happy with the bass until I made a change over the holidays. I decided to sand (and then burnish) the factory gloss poly finish off the back of the neck and replace it with Tru Oil. When I removed the neck to begin sanding, a narrow piece of sandpaper fell out of the pocket.

I am not a professional luthier, but I have done all my own setups and modifications for decades and built a bass or two from parts (e.g. Warmoth). I am well aware of neck shims. This piece of sandpaper was (maybe) 1/4 inch wide, as long as the neck width where it meets the pocket, and one end was slightly folded over on top of itself.

I had never seen sandpaper used as a shim, especially this small and thin. So I threw it away, completed the sanding and oiling, then put it all back together. That's when the problems started. To summarize: since then, I cannot get the bass properly setup - no matter what/how I try. A quick (but not complete list):

• Different materials for a shim (wood, metal, paper)
• Different size shims (width, thickness, length etc.)
• Different locations within the neck pocket (G&L LB-100 has 6 screws holding the neck in place) and shims that fill the neck pocket vs. strips

Depending on the above, the bridge saddles are either too high or cannot be lowered enough to get the correct string height because they hit the bottom of the bridge cavity. When I am able to get it close, I'm getting a lot of clank and string noise. I cannot get the intonation set. Every string is sharp to some degree no matter how far I move each saddle away from the nut.

To be fair, every guitar maker has imperfections and quality issues on some level. And one instrument does not represent the quality of all of them. But... the level of frustration I'm having has pushed me to now look for another P bass, not made by G&L. I feel like I got a lemon, and not only is it past warranty, I've modified it. Argh...!!

I've bought three tributes. One was good. One had neck issues, similar to yours. One had major cosmetic and hardware installation issues. I won't buy another one

 

[Jay2U]

If I need a shim, sandpaper is my preferred choice. It never let me down.

 

[Ellery]

I've bought three tributes. One was good. One had neck issues, similar to yours. One had major cosmetic and hardware installation issues. I won't buy another one

This is valuable information, I have a US LB-100 that I love and was looking into getting an L-2500. But as the prices of the US models has skyrocketed I was considering a Tribute. Normally I only hear the good things.

 

[jd56hawk]

Long time since I took this one out of it's case.
I must've been crazy!
It does it all...and it only weighs 7.3 lbs.
Absolutely no issues whatsoever.
Nothing intrinsically wrong with a Tribute, but when it comes to G&L, the USA-made ones are immeasurably better.
(As mentioned above, one problem bass might be a lemon, but it doesn't make all G&Ls lemons.)

 

[PBassAcidJazz]

If factory shimming is common, then the manufacturer needs to improve their design and/or quality control. Especially if we are talking stuffing business cards or sandpaper into a critical area of the instrument.

 

[bootstrap]

the USA-made ones are immeasurably better.
View attachment 5367298

I've never tried a Tribute so I don't know where that bar is but my experience purchasing LB-100s between 2016 and 2022 throws cold water on the notion that USA-made G&Ls are consistently even good. And I'm a guy who wants it to be true.

Two BTOs and one CS. All three delivered to the dealer with significant issues, all three returned to Fullerton for a painfully long unscrewing with poor communication and waves of half-truths and broken promises along the way.

Can you tell I'm still getting over it?

Yeah, I'm thrice burned and biased. Never again. OP, I don't care what you did, it's G&L's fault.

 

[FunkHead]

9 times out of 10 the factory shims weren’t even needed. It’s just a very quick way to lower the action instead of adjusting the saddles.

 

[smtp4me]

If factory shimming is common, then the manufacturer needs to improve their design and/or quality control. Especially if we are talking stuffing business cards or sandpaper into a critical area of the instrument.

Exactly. A handful of respondents understand why I’m complaining.

The root cause of this issue is that either the neck pocket was routed too deep or the neck heel is too thin, or both. Hard stop. The geometry is so far off that, without any shim, the bridge saddles cannot be lowered enough to compensate. After any or all of the saddles are lowered to the bridge deck, the strings are still so significantly high that the bass is unplayable.

This is a factory defect that became apparent after I removed the neck. A bass that is completely unplayable without a shim is a manufacturing problem, not a user error. The fact that shims are a common thing does not make the reason they are necessary acceptable. The fact that someone at the factory was able to get it working does not mean I should be happy that the geometry is so far off.

 

[Mike Vee]

If factory shimming is common, then the manufacturer needs to improve their design and/or quality control. Especially if we are talking stuffing business cards or sandpaper into a critical area of the instrument.

well that's not gonna happen on a $400 bass

 

[Mike Vee]

Exactly. A handful of respondents understand why I’m complaining.

The root cause of this issue is that either the neck pocket was routed too deep or the neck heel is too thin, or both. Hard stop. The geometry is so far off that, without any shim, the bridge saddles cannot be lowered enough to compensate. After any or all of the saddles are lowered to the bridge deck, the strings are still so significantly high that the bass is unplayable.

This is a factory defect that became apparent after I removed the neck. A bass that is completely unplayable without a shim is a manufacturing problem, not a user error. The fact that shims are a common thing does not make the reason they are necessary acceptable. The fact that someone at the factory was able to get it working does not mean I should be happy that the geometry is so far off.

yea but this is a 400 dollar bass, that's life. your ONLY options are to take to a luthier or sell it. G&L isn't going to give two *****. I've had $2500 Music Mans where the neck wouldn't setup correctly. I sold it and moved on because honestly taking it to "pros" doesn't always work out and it can be expensive.

The fact is it can be fixed, no doubt about it. But it might cost more money than you want to spend on a cheaper bass.

If I were you, I'd buy some premade shims of many different sizes, take a deep breath, and get it right. You will if you are patient. Maybe try the Ernie Ball Shims.

 

[sawzalot]

This is not a defect. TONS of basses use shims. Ernie Ball has their own custom shims they use on all their basses if they need them. I understand you're upset that the bass isn't setting up the way you want, but unfortunately you threw away the thing that is necessary to make it set up the way you want. That was a mistake, but it's easily remedied. Take it to a pro, you'll get it back in playing shape, problem solved, that should be the end of the debate.

 

[gln1955]

The use of a shim to make minor corrections to the neck angle is common practice in factory-produced basses. One may not like it but it's a fact of manufacture. And before someone goes on to say that with modern machinery they should be able to cut it right in the first place, consider the materials we are dealing with. Wood is not a homogenous material that remains stable. So to guarantee a neck angle would entail rough cutting the piece, then letting it sit for some time (up to months), and recutting to final fit. Even that is no guarantee. Factories aren't going to do that - it costs too much.

Quoted for the people still bitching about poor manufacturing of their $400 bass. Mass producing basses means there are a pile of bodies made and a pile of necks made. They then have to mated up and made to work together. They are both made of wood. It's not like machining metal. Wood is going to expand, contract, move a bit in every direction after it is milled. Shims are the most cost-effective way to make a bolt-on necked bass, so everyone does it. There have been posts in other shim threads where someone reports thier Fender Custom Shop bass had a shim.

Even if a bass leaves the factory without a shim, there's a fair chance it may need one a year or two down the road. That was the case with my MIM Jazz. It's an easy fix that can be done in less time than it takes to read this thread.

 

[sunbeast]

Godin uses sandpaper as shims in their guitars, and their guitars are killer! My Godin A4 Ultra (the case with all of the Godin Multiac series of instruments) has no adjustable bridge saddles, so neck angle is the only way to change the action- from the factory there was a small stack of fine grit sandpaper and the action was medium low, I added a bit more to get in down into "mwah" territory and it has been the best playing/sounding fretless I've had since. In fact Godin suggests this method of adjusting action to player taste. I've recently acquired a Godin Multiac Nylon that was setup perfect for my tastes using the same sandpaper method.

A bass that played great for two years til you messed with it is certainly no lemon- it just suggests you are probably doing something wrong when trying to recreate the neck angle that the bass originally had. My guess is that you are either cranking the neck bolts in too hard (effectively compressing the wood around the shim) or not hard enough (negating the angle the shim would help to align by leaving slop in the joint). In any case, such a small amount of angle shouldn't be difficult to recreate by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[petermwright]

Even if a bass leaves the factory without a shim, there's a fair chance it may need one a year or two down the road. That was the case with my MIM Jazz. It's an easy fix that can be done in less time than it takes to read this thread.

What happens to cause that? In what way does the neck change in order for that to happen? I’m just interested, not questioning the truth of it.