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Lemons (warning: G&L rant)

#81
What do you mean exactly when you say you can't intonate this bass? If the relief and action height are OK, it can be intonated, unless you simply run out of room for adjustment, which really only happens if the bridge is misplaced. Since this bass intonated before you messed with it, that doesn't seem to be the case. I can only conclude that you have figured out how to defy the laws of physics.
 
#82
gln1955 said:
What do you mean exactly when you say you can't intonate this bass? If the relief and action height are OK, it can be intonated, unless you simply run out of room for adjustment, which really only happens if the bridge is misplaced. Since this bass intonated before you messed with it, that doesn't seem to be the case. I can only conclude that you have figured out how to defy the laws of physics.
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Or the strings got twisted.
 
#83
FullumMusic said:
I do wonder if any long-time luths or techs have found shimming using a random "piece-of-thing" (like folded sandpaper) to cause fret-ramping. It seems like having a little bit of material under one side of the neck heel and wrenching down on the bolts could cause warping over time. I would think a wedge shim would work better and prevent ramping. (Although the frets could just be shaved down at the heel to adjust for ramping, i guess.) Still, i would love to know first-hand pro experience.
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I’m no expert, and I think it’s a subject of debate, but I subscribe to the Haze Guitars emails, and Gerry thinks so. He believes there is a correlation between ski-jumps* and this style of makeshift neck shim. He says that shims should be tapered and fill the whole width of the neck pocket.

*Gerry uses the term ski-jump, but he means where the neck is literally raised at the last few frets - rather than the 12th-fret-kink-style ski-jumps, which were discussed in a long thread on TB. He showed a picture of a neck where the raised portion matched pretty much exactly the shape of the shim, if I recall.
 
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#84
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#86
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#87
JKos said:
There’s a big long thread in luthier land about this. BLUF: They have found no evidence that a partial shim causes an issue. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/getting-the-facts-about-ski-jumps.1111265/
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Sweet! Reading material! I had a hunch this topic would have been discussed here in depth. Thanks!

petermwright said:
I’m no expert, and I think it’s a subject of debate, but I subscribe to the Haze Guitars emails, and Gerry thinks so. He believes there is a correlation between ski-jumps* and this style of makeshift neck shim. He says that shims should be tapered and fill the whole width of the neck pocket.

*Gerry uses the term ski-jump, but he means where the neck is literally raised at the last few frets - rather than the 12th-fret-kink-style ski-jumps, which were discussed in a long thread on TB. He showed a picture of a neck where the raised portion matched pretty much exactly the shape of the shim, if I recall.
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Oh wow. Nice. Like, in my head i can imagine the makeshift shims doing exactly that, but i had no proof. Wood is pretty strong. Maybe it wouldn't be an issue. Or maybe it's only an issue sometimes. But him showing the pics is really cements the idea in my mind. (I went and looked up the pics. Kinda astounding, actually) :jawdrop:
 
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#88
DwaynieAD said:
Reminds me of the programmer story about the pic of the rubber duck in the code, when removed it no longer worked.
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Yup! As a person who's off helpdesk and on an analyst team with coders now I've definitely run into the commented out section of code that says something to the effect of "This shouldn't work. I don't know why it works. I've tried this every other way I know how. Do not remove it or I will cry"

That said, for OP, I've heard sandpaper doesn't compress as bad as standard paper/business cards (which is what I've used a lot in the past). My fav shim I used was a chinese takeout menu I lovingly placed under the heel of my bosses bass (a nice stingray). I told him about it and said if it was ever stolen and he lost the serial, he'd be able to tell them about that takeout menu as further proof of it being his.
 
#91
Turnaround said:
The use of a shim to make minor corrections to the neck angle is common practice in factory-produced basses. One may not like it but it's a fact of manufacture. And before someone goes on to say that with modern machinery they should be able to cut it right in the first place, consider the materials we are dealing with. Wood is not a homogenous material that remains stable. So to guarantee a neck angle would entail rough cutting the piece, then letting it sit for some time (up to months), and recutting to final fit. Even that is no guarantee. Factories aren't going to do that - it costs too much.
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Amen !
 
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#92
How in the world do manufacturers need shims nowadays with CNC? If it matters, I did find a factory shim in my EBMM.

I found out that one can buy factory shims from EB which I did. Increased the shim thickness to get that bass to play better. It's a EBMM Sterling which is my lightest bass. I switch over to it from the Kiesel 5-string when I'm feeling sore.

During Easter, We'll play 4 nights straight for more than the usual hour mass (plus one hour prior for a quick rehearsal). I switch over to the Sterling at that time.

I played the Sterling this past Sunday. I've been out since mid-Jan due to a devastating bout with that virus we cannot mention. Yes, I did get the required amount of pokes prior.
 
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#93
smtp4me said:
Not really sure if this is a cry for help, or just a rant. Maybe both. Apologies if this a little long...

I have a G&L LB-100 Tribute, purchased new about two years ago. I immediately swapped the factory strings for Chromes and set it up to my preferred specs. I've made seasonal adjustments to the truss rod, but no other changes.

I was happy with the bass until I made a change over the holidays. I decided to sand (and then burnish) the factory gloss poly finish off the back of the neck and replace it with Tru Oil. When I removed the neck to begin sanding, a narrow piece of sandpaper fell out of the pocket.

I am not a professional luthier, but I have done all my own setups and modifications for decades and built a bass or two from parts (e.g. Warmoth). I am well aware of neck shims. This piece of sandpaper was (maybe) 1/4 inch wide, as long as the neck width where it meets the pocket, and one end was slightly folded over on top of itself.

I had never seen sandpaper used as a shim, especially this small and thin. So I threw it away, completed the sanding and oiling, then put it all back together. That's when the problems started. To summarize: since then, I cannot get the bass properly setup - no matter what/how I try. A quick (but not complete list):
  • Different materials for a shim (wood, metal, paper)
  • Different size shims (width, thickness, length etc.)
  • Different locations within the neck pocket (G&L LB-100 has 6 screws holding the neck in place) and shims that fill the neck pocket vs. strips
Depending on the above, the bridge saddles are either too high or cannot be lowered enough to get the correct string height because they hit the bottom of the bridge cavity. When I am able to get it close, I'm getting a lot of clank and string noise. I cannot get the intonation set. Every string is sharp to some degree no matter how far I move each saddle away from the nut.

To be fair, every guitar maker has imperfections and quality issues on some level. And one instrument does not represent the quality of all of them. But... the level of frustration I'm having has pushed me to now look for another P bass, not made by G&L. I feel like I got a lemon, and not only is it past warranty, I've modified it. Argh...!!
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Lemon, and a sour one at that! I’m sorry for your trouble. That sucks and can’t certainly understand your frustrations.

Have you contacted customer service. Even I’d you don’t get a suitable remedy, they need to know. Who knows, maybe the will help you out. Other than removing the sandpaper, what other mods did you do?
 
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#94
jasper383 said:
Years ago, I found a trimmed Tokyo subway ticket in the neck pocket of a Japanese Fender. That was awesome.
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that's pretty cool!

about 12 years ago, i bought a new parlor guitar from a brand that had, decades ago, been a known name; someone else had was using the name, and while the guitars looked very similar to the old ones - i think they were around in the 1920s and '30s - i ran into an issue. the neck was shimmed oddly, and when we opened it up, it had part of a zip tie as the shim. needless to say, intonating it was more than challenging till the zip tie was replaced with something stable and consistent in thickness.
 
#95
Are you sure you are using the same length screws? And did you over torque them, are they evenly tightened. I had to put in wood glue and a toothpick and redrill the hole when this happened to me (parts bass). It's not the end of the world. You may need to bring it to a luthier.
 
#97
I have a parts bass and a "fake" Fender neck that the heel side was a but crroked so that the G string is too far from the edge. Also the curve of the heel was not flushed with the Authentic MIM Geddy Lee body (intonation issues) and the bottom of the heel had geometry issues (you need to shim also for left and right). If I was able to correct that and make it play, your situation is not as bad, by a wide margin. And this was my second attempt to put a bass together. I did however employ step by step problem solving procedures and just be patient. I got it to play, low action and intonated well. I am finally getting a proper neck from AllParts, but that experience thought me so much. I gigged with the bass and even had a sound cloud recording of how it plays on the NBD post I had.

I had to shim not only the bottom but the side of the heel. The bottom shims were compound, meaning the left was different from the right and left in thickness. And because I had to screw it in and out I had to repair the screw holes. I did this all when I had free time in about 3 days. Not a luthier, my second parts bass.
 
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#99
I’ll second, or third, the folks who have asked if the neck mounting screws slide through the body holes or need to be threaded through. If they need to be screwed through the body I’d suggest carefully opening the holes up until the neck mounting screws slip through easily. If the screws thread through the body and things don’t line up perfectly when you assemble the neck and body it can hold the neck heel up off of the bottom of the pocket and cause all sorts of odd issues.
 
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