Les Claypool/Primus...........were is the love?

[Icemanaroonie]

I admittedly have had limited exposure to Primus. Still, I like Les Claypool for his originality. He brings a lot more than just the bass to Primus. I think he is Primus and you could pretty much change out the drums and guitar without many people noticing. I find him quirky, tongue-in-cheek silly, unique and enjoyable in an odd, off-center way. Kind of like cubism in the world of painting. Not exactly pretty, attractive, or common, but still compelling. I think he adds to the richness of the musical landscape so yea, I respect him and like to listen to him every now and then.

I fully disagree, they might have had a few different drummers but it's not Primus without Ler and Les.

 

[bassballs27]

I really like Primus, and Clapool's other endeavors, although I confess I have to be in the mood for it. He truly has his own sound, both as a bass player and a songwriter. Very original, but not for everyone.



Where did you hear this? I like Primus, but I'm a big fan of Tool. That would suck. Their show on Halloween looked great on the inter webs, and that says a lot!

Tool tease fans on new album: 'Wait for it' | Gigwise

 

[static0verdrive]

I just read that, googled it LOL, I guess I should research more before posting a thread. Funny at his acoustic show I did not here a single person scream that? Maybe just for the outside, electrified concerts? Live and learn. I guess Primus SUCKS

Yeah although their official site is primusville.com now, it used to be primussucks.com. I bet it started even before their first album (Suck On This, still my favourite) on which Les says "We're Primus, and we suck."

 

[brianrost]

Wanted to get the opinions of real bass players, not the usual youtube haters.

Great player, but he needs better material to play. Much better. Every Primus CD I've listened to gave me a headache He's the poster child for why sometimes it's better to not write your own material.

 

[Road Hat]

Got into them in the early 90's - first release "Suck On This". "Frizzle Fry" is the cd that I've listened to more than any other by any band, by a long shot. Caught the Hallucinogenetics tour in 2004 at the Greek Theater in Berkeley, which is his self-avowed favorite place to play. It was my son's 21st b-day, and the entire bowl was the pit. Both of us dived in! Never anything like it - the entire Frizzle Fry album live, with YYZ as the closer, and the biggest SLAM fest I could ever imagine. Ran lights for the FFB at High Sierra Music Festival main stage and late night. Interesting thing about his acoustic bass playing - from backstage you can see he has tape 'fret' references.

Was at HSMF when they were filming "Electric Apricot - The Quest For Festeroo". If you haven't seen it, maybe give it a look. Love it or hate it, the dude made a feature-length film.

Bass player, singer(-ish), drummer, writer, film-maker, label owner (Prawn Song), vintner, collaborator, orchestrator, stage show designer - almost played with Metallica.

Geez, like him or not (doesn't matter either way, does it?), he's truly a modern day Renaissance Man.

Oh yeah, and he sucks.

Edit: Saw Mike Watt open for him once, also at the Greek Theater. People were throwing shoes at the stage, and giant penguins came out and picked them up. Brilliant!

 

[dalkowski]

A little Les goes a long way with me, but that doesn't mean I don't respect his talents and creativity. His music always makes me prick up my ears—there's no one else like him. As a listener, I prefer a less percussive style of playing. As a player, I couldn't hold his strap. Primus sucks!

 

[Jeff Sarsippius]

LOVE PRIMUS

Tommy The Cat blew my mind in college...still in awe every song I've heard

 

[fishdreams]

I've been playing Primus songs for about 17 years now, so I'm likely as qualified as anyone to break down Les' style. Please note all of my comments are being made as a person that's loved this band for about 25 years, have seen them over 10 times, and learned most of their catalog up to 2002 by 2003 or so.

Les is a divisive bass player because he specifically has developed a style that is incredibly unique, but flies in the face of conventional playing.

His strumming technique, for example, is extremely uncommon. To the point that when I heard Alex/Dirk from Incubus use it on a track of theirs (Privilege IIRC), in 2001, on the radio I literally had to stop and figure out what band it was. When I realized it was Incubus and Alex (who I went to school with) I was relieved as only he, myself, Stanley Clarke and a handful of guys that have studied either Stanley or Les actually do that and I was worried about additional competition.

Again, it's an incredibly uncommon technique. I broke it out at a jam at the Baked Potato a week or two ago and a few guys ***'d on me. Stanley invented it in the 70s, but it is simply not mainstream.

Once you get past the "man that looks amazing" factor, and actually break down the parts a few patterns emerge:

1) Melodically Les can be a bit limited. Lots of flat seconds and minor thirds in his stuff. You do not get a lot of Primus songs in a major key. This isn't a problem, but it does limit their variety.

2) Since they're a trio, their tonal center is often somewhat ambiguous so he just tosses in a lot of chromatic stuff as well. It *works* because he doesn't clash with big chords coming off of Ler. In a larger band context he either has to hold back on that stuff, or pulls it out when other guys are laying *waaaay* back.

3) Unless you plan to write everything in your band, play bass, and sing, he's a bad example to follow too closely. I'm speaking from experience as someone that was the musically dominant force in a band that was nearly signed. His style is so very dominant musically, that I'd speculate if he had not developed as a singer or primary song writer for Primus, he probably would be a guy with a day job, playing kick ass bass in a cover band a few times a month for fun. He would have eventually clashed with the singer, guitarist, or producer otherwise.

4) Les uses three fingers in a galloping style strum, for triplets. Once you get that technique down a lot of his triplet work becomes really simple. e.g the solo on Those Damn Blue Collar Tweekers. If you use a traditional pick or two finger approach those licks take a lot of extra work to get down right. I picked up his three finger technique 14 years ago and fall back on that whenever I need to do quick triplets. It's just easier.

So...I'm still a big fan, and still go to shows, but after studying his techniques for as long as I have the "magic" factor is less present. You eventually start to realize there are guys playing bass, that you can barely hear, that are a bit more creative melodically, have a cleaner technique, and are maybe "better" bassists, but are clearly not being paid to be a "rock star".

From what I've read here, I'm not alone, as there are a lot of bassist on this forum that have enjoyed Primus for as long as I have, or longer, but have also studied Les to that extent.

So, lots of love from my end, but the worship factor has died off as I've grown up.

YMMV.

Wow, thanks. Would love to see this as a sticky under a new category 'style analysis'. That is the kind of knowledgeable, thorough & thoughtful analysis that TB needs more of, much more of.

As someone who has more of a track record as a composer than as bass player, I'll chime in on the writing.

I actually like their writing. Lyrically the imagery is vivid, allowing for some depth behind the goofiness, without ramming the message down your throat. (Too Many Puppies is my favorite anti war song). I hear them as a cross between XTC and Captain Beefheart, with a modernized Cheech & Chong humour thrown in, and that they managed to become successful with it, is quite an an amazing feat. It is true that they are harmonically limited, but I also think that that is what modern writing is about, and I love it that they don't allow themselves to be boxed in by chords. I think Claypool is quite an expressive vocalist, who is aware of his limitations and make his strong points count. I think Lalonde's very clever guitar voicings and textural sensitivity deserve a lot of credit for making them sound so good and distinctive as a trio. What in my mind holds them back (I have to say here that I have only heard the records, never heard them live other than on YouTube) is that to my ears their grooving is a bit too unilateral. If they'd allow for both more breath of melodic shaping in the instrumental lines, and especially elasticity of time (loosening or completely losing the groove), there could be a whole new dimension there that they could do awesome things in.

 

[socialleper]

There are a fair number of people on TB that like Les and Primus. There is also a fair number that thinking any kind of slapping is wanking and hate guys like Victor Wooten and Les Claypool.
I liked Primus back in the 90s, I really dug their first three albums. I got a little bored with them until Anti-Pop, and did NOT like their last two. I'm also not really a fan of his other projects. I can only take so much quirkiness in my music. I could do early Primus because there were so good slamming parts, if you lose that, and lose riffing, I'm out.
I know absolutely nothing about the man personally or have had contact with him.

 

[higain617]

I wouldn't say I'm a huge fan, but I dug the early stuff a more. Todd Huth would lay down riffs whereas Larry LaLonde tended to lay down atonal dissonance. This is cool when used sparingly, but Larry didn't exercise a lot of restraint. I guess he did what he could to fill in the gaps from the bass. I do respect them as players.

 

[static0verdrive]

Definitely check out the Sausage CD (Les, Todd Huth, and Jay Lane, the original Primus lineup before any albums). There are some great tunes including "Toyz '88" which is a very different "The Toys Go Winding Down".

 

[TwentyHz]

<snip> ...but I have a hard time with all things Phish related.... <snip>

I have a feeling Les may share some of your feelings about the jam-band feel (my home turf, I confess). Check out a National Lampoon mockumentary he directed called Electric Apricot: Quest for Festeroo. Les on Drums.

I'm often bored and nonplussed by a lot of stuff that other folks find to be badass, challenging or edgy --- but I really dig Les' innovational irreverence - musically, bassishly, and as a performer. Though, to be a fair, I don't always find his stuff to be a swell fit as the soundtrack for my life

 

[engedi1]

I feel the love. I saw the MTV buzz clip for Jerry Was a Race Car driver when I was 13 or 14 and I was absolutely floored. I had never heard of a 6 string bass and had no idea what that crazy thing in his hand was. I have always been a fan. I don't listen to him much anymore but when I was in high school Primus was tops on my list along with Rush and RHCP and Rage.

 

[gguillo]

It's the comments section of YouTube… where trolls live & breed.

 

[mmix]

Chiming in on a couple things here.
Nobody took up the call to talk about Les Claypool and the Holy Mackerel. FWIW, one of my favorite albums ever.
Yes Herb is back in the band and they sound awesome. I've seen them four times since they were in town on the Chocolate Factory tour including a trip from Atlanta this past weekend to AZ for the Monster Mash festival. They're great, but the festival scene produces a limited play list. I understand they're going to do all of Pork Soda on NYE and I'm jealous I won't be attending.
Tool - love it or hate it, their fans are, by and large, raving idiots. Having spent a weekend among them in Arizona (I've seen them locally along with A Perfect Circle and Puscifer and the Puscifer fans seem way cooler and the APC fans somewhere in between), I wanted to flee. I spent a good deal of the show listening to one guy tell another guy how Alexander is no longer in Primus, they've had "at least four drummers", LaLonde is not on this tour, and Claypool plays exclusively Warwick basses. I think the guy would have challenged me to a fist fight if I disagreed with him and that was a microcosm of the masses. Maybe I just spent time with the 20 or so idiot fans and the rest are wonderful, but my experience was not pleasant. The show, however, was really good and whichever band member (it's not Maynard or Adam Jones, I don't think) is sick, they managed to pull off a great show. I have to think it's Justin Chancellor who's ill because Danny Carey has been doing a lot lately. That all being said, I actually enjoyed the Puscifer show on Sunday more and I'm going to see their full show here in Atlanta on this coming Sunday. Puscifer's latest album has some remarkable music on it and I highly recommend it. They've got a former Ministry bassist playing with them and between him and the drummer, the rhythm section is amazing.
A couple people mentioned it, but I think Primus isn't so much into the "Primus Sucks" thing anymore. Still hear it some at shows, but I haven't heard them acknowledge it.
If anyone gets a chance to see their show and your even a casual fan, go. Their Wonka tour show was amazing. I've seen them a bunch since the early 90s and they sound as great as ever. That being said, I hope to get a chance to attend a Duo de Twang show or even one of the other Claypool incarnations this coming year.
Someone mentioned Anitpop as their favorite Primus album. You may be the only one, although there are some good songs on there, it just doesn't sound like Primus. From what I have heard, it's Claypool's least favorite album and it was made during a dark time in his life.
Thanks to those who deconstructed some of what Claypool does on bass. I too picked up the strumming technique of his a bit in my playing and love learning the things he kind of noodled out on his own, but I don't think my playing style will ever by like his.
Thanks too to those who took the time to comment. I enjoyed reading the thread.
--mm

 

[static0verdrive]

Someone mentioned Anitpop as their favorite Primus album. You may be the only one, although there are some good songs on there, it just doesn't sound like Primus. From what I have heard, it's Claypool's least favorite album and it was made during a dark time in his life.

Interesting. I hated it when it came out but it slowly grew on me, and recently I threw it on for the hell of it and it rocked! I kept waiting for all those songs I didn't like, but there weren't any... Anyway not counting the Chocolate Factory album (which I simply can't listen to), I wasn't big on Green Naugahyde. Waayyy too much envelope filter or whatever on his bass - on every damn song! I guess it works towards a "concept album" type of theme but it ends up getting on my nerves, largely because there's simply no bottom end.

I got into them because the video+music of Wynona's Big Brown Beaver. The music blew me away and the video is hilarious, and shortly after a friend gave my best friend and I Suck On This, which is a far cry from the only other song I'd heard (My Name is Mud... m'eh). I think my favourite has always been Suck On This, but I absolutely love just about all their albums. Most of them have a song or two I might skip, but also at least a song that just kills.

 

[Hoss Groovealot]

I love Frizzle Fry for the bass getting groovy and slappy some, but mostly playing the songs as a big, fat heavy guitar with lots of power chords and distortion. My favorite work of Primus has to be Sailing The Seas of Cheese. This album had some of the heavy power chording of Frizzle Fry, but what got me was the weird bass stuff. The slapping and rythmatic stuff on a fretless to the tapping and sliding around in strange beats and tones like being at a 1940s carnival freak show on mushrooms. Pork Soda had some great tunes, but definitely wasn't as out there as Sailing was. Tales From the Punchbowl seemed over produced to me. I have trouble explaining it, but it didn't sit well with me other than a few stand outs like Mrs. Blaileen, damn that groove is heavy! Anti Pop was ironically their most "pop" or mainstream sounding of all their stuff. Still some good stuff on it though. Then we have the Brown Album. I hate the drum mix and sound, it is very low-fi sounding. This is the album where they stopped being a heavy alternative band with weird bass to a jam band with some funky bass. People Should Not Try To Act Like Animals is very much more like something akin to Holy Mackerel or Colonel Claypool’s Bucket of Bernie Brains. They seemed to forget Primus started as a heavy band that gave us punks and metal heads something different to jump in the pit and "dance" to. Animals was so damned mellow and psychedelic. I love Lee Van Kleef and Tragedy's a Commin on Green Naugahyde, but I feel these would have been more fitting for a Frog Brigade follow up to Purple Onion, which is my favorite non Primus Claypool work.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

That was some great playing, but here's the song I was talking about.

My bad I wasn't aware he did a cover of his own song and thanks for the compliment

 

[47VevetS]

I went to a TOOL concert with my nephew a few years back. I didn't really know their music - his GF couldn't make it so I went. What a mistake LOL.

Really?! Tool?... Are u sure it was Tool? Im sorry man, but how can that be a mistake? Tool are brilliant, Justin C. is one of the most talented bassists Ive seen in metal, if you can even call Ool metal, theyre more like Progressive Metal, no offense, love you man.