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Looking for a 'tighter' sound live , especially low end
- Thread starter pbass888
- Start date
I don't think it matters much. It would matter if you are fighting major feedback or power problems. Then somewhere in the line after the oc2 would be best. You can try right in front of the line and see how your bass react to the high impedance.
If you can shelve below 60Hz then you can boost around 90Hz for a tight dark bottom end and if you boost around 800Hz you can add a bit more punch. try that and see if you like it.
Sorry I don't.
I do know that the SR5, with the Series/parallel/Single Coil switch, uses a different preamp, it is about twice the size of a standard 3 band. Probably because it has the phantom coil to make the single coil mode humbucking.
Sadly, my response will most likely be unseen due to the huge number of posts. But why not post?
I will begin my response with my philosophy for my bass. Each gig is a new challenge to find the "right tone." Obviously constraints dont allow us to achieve perfection, but that is the goal. Different players, rooms, instruments, heads, and cabinets all change the tone of our bass. On top of this I feel that this list also carries the order of most tone changing to least tone changing. Each bass we play, each rig we use, even each room we play has a huge impact on our tone that we must adjust for.
I play in a cover band and need a wide variety of tones for my songs and I must be able to switch at a moment's notice. So my battle is attaining a tone that suits a room for the growliest, and softest tones I am trying to achieve. I work to set up my rig so changes in my picking style and tone knob can create what I want (on occassion I fail, but thats the goal)
One big piece of the puzzle comes from understanding how bass is equalized and compressed in a studio mix. Doing mixes yourself really hone this skill. You can find around the internet, stems of numerous songs. Record your own bass and work to mix your bass into the song and make it sound good.
When it comes to mixing music the bass usually has the harshest compression of any instrument. So we can put harsh compression in live scenarios as well. My bass head has an onboard compressor and I basically crank that thing until its sounds fake then back off the knob until it sounds real again. (We want it as harsh as possible without sounding fake) This allows us to sit in the mix live or recording without being too loud or soft. Different rooms can change this.
After that I leave the EQ flat..... except for 1.8k Hz, at this point I push the frequency until my ears and my friend's ears are able to decipher my notes through the mix. (I cannot express how valuable someone else's ears are!!!)
So does LOW END get me heard? NO NO NO, its the 1.8Hz!!! After I get that EQ right, I adjust my EQ for higher frequencies until my bass sounds real. If the room is stuffy, Ill notice the bass sounds nasaly, bringing out higher frequencies gets rid of this tone. In wide spaces sometimes the 1.8Hz adjustment is all I need.
An important side note to add before going too far is the instrument and strings can hugely impact this tone. A crappy instrument with old strings will sound like garbage in nearly every situation.... great strings and instrument sound great even if you didnt dial in your tone perfectly. My strings are changed Friday morning before my gigging weekend begins.
As far as my exact choices for compression and EQ go, I must admit these are more due to observations about the tone going through my rig than they about a perfect rule we can apply to any and everything. Take your time and learn how your rig behaves. Run frequency response tests, run sound width tests (see how far someone can sit perpendicular to you but still hear) these are all things I have tested with my various rigs throughout the years.
Understanding how they make sound allows you to better decide how to place and EQ your rig for each room.
As a bass teacher I try to express to my students just how important their understanding of tone is. Quite a few people can play bass well. How you know when you have a GOOD bass player is they sound good regardless of the location.
Keep your chin up, run those tests, mix some songs, and I bet anything you will be confident about your bass choices in no time!!!!!
When I encounter this, I usually try to take a walk in front of the PA for a listen. If it sounds better there, I just ask the sound eng. what his settings are and try them out on the amp.
But much can be done with a limiter and rolling off the low end. Then you just add a bit of volume and or gain, so you still hear yourself.
But much can be done with a limiter and rolling off the low end. Then you just add a bit of volume and or gain, so you still hear yourself.
1964 L series jazz bass.. used to belong to one of Ray Charles bass players and restored by talkbass member John Kallas.Id sell it for the right price..
...all original except pick guard and refin.
I have a sadowsky DI and just ordered a LPF. I honestly don't remember using a passive di though I may have years ago.
Fred191 Thanks for the thoughtfull and through response. I was talking to another top bassist here in nyc and we were talking apt the importance of tone and sound quality. He has recorded on hundreds of albums and done 16 international tours etc, even has a few Grammys ..He suggested that the amp , setup and tone of rig is as important as a saxophone reed is !
Unfortunalty I am still using a lot of crappy house back lines but am looking to Improve on I. I'll post the next gigs and try some things suggested here.
Thanks again!
I've been following this thread all week... so much info here. I also play reggae and I have encountered the same mushiness from my live tone. I have often thought about adding a compressor to my rig to help tighten up, give some tone definition and some limiting (not interested in adding sustain, though). I once owned an amp with a built in compressor that did a good job of adding some note definition and limiting. It worked well for reggae.
I have seen many here mention using an HPF pedal and so I've been doing some research on the FDeck and other HPF pedals and I understand how they can clean up bass tone. So now I think maybe I should be looking into an HPF. I'm not sure what to do...
Any REGGAE players here with live experience SPECIFICALLY using compressors and HPF's want to weigh in with their thoughts as to what is the better way to achieve the tight, defined note goal along with a smooth even volume?
Compressor... HPF... both?
I have seen many here mention using an HPF pedal and so I've been doing some research on the FDeck and other HPF pedals and I understand how they can clean up bass tone. So now I think maybe I should be looking into an HPF. I'm not sure what to do...
Any REGGAE players here with live experience SPECIFICALLY using compressors and HPF's want to weigh in with their thoughts as to what is the better way to achieve the tight, defined note goal along with a smooth even volume?
Compressor... HPF... both?
So many people commenting about eq but I think that's silly. Your bass makes all the right frequencies you just need the right compression to keep it tight and defined. Slowish attack and fastish release. Like 25-50ms attack and similar release to catch the next note. 3-4:1 ratio and take off 4-6db but more important than numbers, is to use your ears so it isn't too squashed and sounds natural, but tight. I'm a full-time performer and producer, and all I ever use is my bass, a compressor, and a 15 markbass cab and my sound sits exactly how I want it. Great for any style. Compressor on the bass is so so crucial because big changes in the bass dynamic ruins a mix and the bass guitar is very prone to dynamic abnormalities. May the funk be with you!
Your Markbass cab is a very tight sounding cab with a rolled off low end (not saying that like it's a bad thing, either), so no wonder you don't have any of the problems the OP is having. And while I think a compressor can be a cool artistic choice that I respect (though I don't use one and have no plans ever to add one again), I really don't see what it can do for the OP. Compressed mud is still mud.
IME a hpf is very usefull to be able to defeat or control the frequencies below 80 hz. I often use a HPF, but mostly for DB an EUB. A cab with just the right controlled low end, like a lot of the closed cabs out there, will help. Same thing for a amp with the right EQ that allows for turning down around 40 and to stay up in the 80 to 100 hz range. That's why I still cling to my old Eden wt amp with a bass control at 30hz and a semi paremtric that allows me to dial in the right bump at 90 hz. So to get that Reggae sound IMO a HPF can be usefull, but it is just one tool in the box to fine tune the low end, you might not need it.
I can't really advise on compression. I don't like it for myself in Reggae because I think it takes away from the "bubbeliness", if that makes sense. I do know other reggae players that are way better than me and far more specialised in modern reggae, several use compression and sound pretty good. When I get to play reggae live it is mostly in a very old school setting combined with ancient Ska (think Skatalites with an occasional reggae tune).
Try playing through a pair of lightweight 12 long-throw drivers. I have a pair of Schroeder Mini-12+L cabinets. Literally, these bill blow the doors off a 410 any day. So tight the waitresses squeak... Schroeder also makes a larger 12", called the 12PL. Same Italian B&C Driver, but slightly bigger box.
I did quite a bit of research on driver performance. The standard of the industry is of course, the Eminence 10" driver found in the Ampeg 810... every blues house on the planet uses this cab with an SVT on top. Researching the specs, I found that this driver only moves about 5mm ("Xmax" on the spec sheet). At Xmax, the engine (magnet) either runs out of power (electrical limit), or the cone literally clears the face of the magnet (mechanical limit) thus cutting off the power supply to the cone, and limiting the output at that point. Markbass and others started questioning the engineering. B&C started making long-throw drivers - 6.5mm, 7mm - now some companies are rating the Xmax up to 9 and 10mm. Even Eminence has increased the Xmax on their newer bass drivers.
I have heard the markbass and other similar - and would encourage you to play those as well, but I have not played many of those. David (Eden) Nordschow's new DNS/DNA brand would probably fit in that group, as well as Aguilar, Low Down, and Bergantino. I liked dealing with Jorge Schroeder, so I bought his cabs. No regrets. Look him up on Facebook, and tell him Dave Spiegelberg recommended his stuff. I won't get any kick-back, just returning a favor...
That would explain why my SVT would only get so loud no matter what amp I used from 200 W to 700 W. But I never did miss not having a compressor.
If I have to ask the price, it meanʻs I canʻt afford it! iʻM MORE OF A p-BASS kind of guy, anyway.1964 L series jazz bass.. used to belong to one of Ray Charles bass players and restored by talkbass member John Kallas.Id sell it for the right price..
I had something of a similar problem with Jazzes. I was getting open and hollow lows and/or unpleasant mids and highs. What I found was Flats helped much more than rounds in tightening up the bottom. Then I put some TI Jazz Rounds on and that seems to be the solution for me. Great tight lows, nice mids and plenty of highs for me. It was a very simple solution for me and might work for you before buying equipment. Those strings do wonders for a Jazz bass.
