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Loose connections on mesa subway cabs

#226
@agedhorse : Why are combo jacks still in use on new bass cabinets, especially those designed for use with high-powered heads? It's been repeatedly stated on Talkbass that 1/4" is antiquated, and incapable of safely handling connection in high-powered situations. True or false statement? Or, shades of gray?

Having used Neutriks literally for decades without problem, and valuing the promoted reliability and safety of these connectors, it is somewhat surprising that combo jacks exist on new products.

In one outlying past personal experience, a Speakon-to-1/4" cable was needed to connect an Acoustic Image head to a jazz guitar cabinet. That conversion simply occurred with an inexpensive conversion cable, easily available new or self constructed. There was no need for jacks to match or "adapt."

A respected bass amp builder recently chose to use 1/4" jacks as speaker outs on new high-power head offerings. Reasoning was that more potential buyers apparently wanted 1/4" vs Speakon. Reaction on Talkbass was mixed, with some discounting future purchase because of the 1/4" feature, and others cementing purchase plans because of the feature. Although that amp was appealing to me, the 1/4" outputs negated my interest.

Maybe the standard cliche, "Jack of all trades, master of none," holds true for people and bass speaker combo jacks? If combo jacks are now more problematic due to Neutrik design and supply failure, maybe it's time to discontinue combo-jack use.
 
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#228
Goatrope said:
I'm wondering if it would be beneficial to update the thread title with something like "Suspected problem with Neutrik brown and green connectors when used with combo jacks".

This isn't a Mesa specific issue, although Agedhorse is (fortunately for us) knee deep in the investigation.

Just a thought.
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Yep, definitely an across the board issue for manufacturers who supply the combo jacks on their cabinets. Could be an issue for any of them.
 
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#229
staccatogrowl said:
@agedhorse : Why are combo jacks still in use on new bass cabinets, especially those designed for use with high-powered heads? It's been repeatedly stated on Talkbass that 1/4" is antiquated, and incapable of safely handling connection in high-powered situations. True or false statement? Or, shades of gray?

Having used Neutriks literally for decades without problem, and valuing the promoted reliability and safety of these connectors, it is somewhat surprising that combo jacks exist on new products.

In one outlying past personal experience, a Speakon-to-1/4" cable was needed to connect an Acoustic Image head to a jazz guitar cabinet. That conversion simply occurred with an inexpensive conversion cable, easily available new or self constructed. There was no need for jacks to match or "adapt."

A respected bass amp builder recently chose to use 1/4" jacks as speaker outs on new high-power head offerings. Reasoning was that more potential buyers apparently wanted 1/4" vs Speakon. Reaction on Talkbass was mixed, with some discounting future purchase because of the 1/4" feature, and others cementing purchase plans because of the feature. Although that amp was appealing to me, the 1/4" outputs negated my interest.

Maybe the standard cliche, "Jack of all trades, master of none," holds true for people and bass speaker combo jacks? If combo jacks are now more problematic due to Neutrik design and supply failure, maybe it's time to discontinue combo-jack use.
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Good question.

While TB members tend to be more sophisticated users and have adopted SpeakOn connections without too much fuss, there are still a lot of players that think SpeakOns are the “act of the devil”.

In an attempt to make the cabinets more universal, especially for players of legacy amps, we (and many others) have included both SpeakOn and 1/4”. I don’t recommend 1/4” for high powered use, or with bridged amps though.

On the amps, international safety standards make 1/4” connections almost impossible to comply (using a strict interpretation) for several reasons. It depends on the agency and the region, but frankly it’s not worth the fight to include the inferior connection. The speaker cabinets don’t have this regulatory limitation because they aren’t covered under the 62368 saferty standards.
 
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#231
agedhorse said:
Haven’t seen any issues with the non-combo jacks.
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I didn't relate it to the 'combo / non-combo' issue. For sure if you peek inside the plugs you see the old ones have way smaller metal connecting surfaces than the newer ones. No idea of this is the same for old and new chassis parts? Or indeed it is 'combo / non-combo' related? I can post a video about the faulty connection if you like.
 
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#232
LetItGrowTone said:
I think he says that the *new* combo jacks work with the *new* plugs (brown) perfectly. He shows photos.

And evidently (from *this* thread) the old combo jacks don't work with the new plugs. He said that Neutrik said that the old and new are compatible, but "they aren't".
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The new plugs work on the old chassis part (which is not a combo jack), but the old plug doesn't work on the new chassis part (which is combo jack). It's the really old plug with a plastic ring to unlock that doesn't work properly. The newer ones with a metal slide to unlock do work on al of the chassis parts. Everything NL2 btw, no NL4.
 
#233
That's it! Time to cash in. :greedy:

Come get the sound of the ol' "Vintage Blue" that will let your sound stay true. :cool:

Only $8,467 each NL4 "blue" connector. :whistle:

Hurry, I only have ten here in the drawer and as stock gets low, the price will rise.
For every two sold, the price will add $3,467 each. :cigar:

Call for price on the last four. :nailbiting:

Or you can beat the price increase and just get all ten now for the locked in price above at $8,467 each. :cool:
 
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#234
I bought a pair of these cables on Ebay. The came with blue Neutric connectors and work perfectly with the Subway cabs.

www.ebay.com

3 FT SpeakOn 2-Conductor 12AWG w/Neutrik NL4FX DJ's Pro Audio Speaker Cable | eBay

This professional grade cable is made with 12AWG /2-Conductor Wire and Neutrik NL4FX SpeakOn 4-Pole connectors. NL4FX SpeakOn 4-Pole, Spring-loaded lock release latches Connectors. Speakon cables are used for high-current audio applications as an alternative to 1/4" TS connections.
www.ebay.com
 
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#235
Jasper Mortier said:
The new plugs work on the old chassis part (which is not a combo jack), but the old plug doesn't work on the new chassis part (which is combo jack). It's the really old plug with a plastic ring to unlock that doesn't work properly. The newer ones with a metal slide to unlock do work on al of the chassis parts. Everything NL2 btw, no NL4.
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No, the older plugs work fine with both. The issue so far has been with the newest plugs with the brown and green collars.
 
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#236
Jasper Mortier said:
I didn't relate it to the 'combo / non-combo' issue. For sure if you peek inside the plugs you see the old ones have way smaller metal connecting surfaces than the newer ones. No idea of this is the same for old and new chassis parts? Or indeed it is 'combo / non-combo' related? I can post a video about the faulty connection if you like.
Click to expand...
This is not correct. There are different contact styles in the combo versus non-combo jacks.
 
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#237
For another data point and to add some detail to my earlier post on this thread: I have a Mesa Subway 115 with the black combo jacks and a recently acquired Live Wire 12 guage cable with the brown Neutrik NL2FXX-W-S connectors. When connected, the plug seems to have no freedom of motion along the wire axis of the connection. It has a verrry slight play in the pitch/yaw direction. (Less than one degree?) It has maybe 5 to 10 degrees of freedom to rotate (roll) about the wire axis while latched, which is more than I expected. But, it seems to have a stable electrical connection regardless of position. I've tried wiggling it while playing, and have not been able to reproduce an intermittent signal demonstrated by @Twohearted and reported originally by @bullgoose76 .

I don't know if this helps with the diagnostics, or if I am just lucky...
 
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#238
Substrate said:
For another data point and to add some detail to my earlier post on this thread: I have a Mesa Subway 115 with the black combo jacks and a recently acquired Live Wire 12 guage cable with the brown Neutrik NL2FXX-W-S connectors. When connected, the plug seems to have no freedom of motion along the wire axis of the connection. It has a verrry slight play in the pitch/yaw direction. (Less than one degree?) It has maybe 5 to 10 degrees of freedom to rotate (roll) about the wire axis while latched, which is more than I expected. But, it seems to have a stable electrical connection regardless of position. I've tried wiggling it while playing, and have not been able to reproduce an intermittent signal demonstrated by @Twohearted and reported originally by @bullgoose76 .

I don't know if this helps with the diagnostics, or if I am just lucky...
Click to expand...
It does help, because some have reported a lot of play and slop.
 
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#240
Here's the difference between the non-combo and combo versions of the jack:

non-combo version:
SpeakOn Damage.JPG


combo version:
IMG_2421[1].JPG


Here's the mating plug contact (inside + contact):
SpeakOn Plug.JPG


I just ran tests on the NL4FX (newest blue collar but now discontinued) and it's solid and tight, no slop.
 
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