Loudest, gnarly'est, cab for $1000?

[Coolhandjjl]

I often think that 'a lot down low' really means "between 60hz and 250hz." Most kick drum body sits at about 60hz. And a lot of boom-content-impact is really in the 100-200hz range,......

Someone saying they want 'a lot down low' that is covering two octaves is a pretty misguided definition. But I do see your point, makes perfect sense.

Here's the dreaded car analogy again: Some kid waves a bunch of money at a salesman and states I need a lot of horsepower, and so he drives away with a Dodge Challenger in the 700hp range, when a Volvo S40 turbo with hp in the low 200's would have done it.

 

[BurningSkies]

Someone saying 'a lot down low' that is covering two octaves is a pretty loose definition. But I do see your point, makes perfect sense.

Few people are actually looking at the waveform of what their cabinet is producing, or what their bass produces. Often as close as they get is the add copy on the cab they have which will tell them that it's good down to 27hz...but neglects to mention that it's 30db down there.

That big fat sound isn't as deep as people think it is. Which is why people could play bass back in the dark ages (60's, 70's) and have a big deep tone...even though speakers didn't go that low or that loud. Really I don't think the music public REALLY caught on to deep lows was when subs became more fully developed and utilized in live music arenas to a much greater extent (probably over used), which would mean sometime in the 80's.

 

[BurningSkies]

* also, I was sort of ignoring this thread because there are plenty of loud cabs and there are plenty of gnarly cabs... I'd consider those to be ones that enjoy going non-linear and sound good with cone breakup. I don't believe that the 3015LF loaded cabs fit into that category. The xlim is too close to the xmax to be useful for that tone.

 

[slade]

like I said- 10% (or some other random percentage) of players really do need that low end excursion and push their cabs so hard live that they can't hold the clarity. Thinking back I think the loudest stage volume I've ever heard while playing was at the El Rey Theatre in LA. Backline cab was an SVT Classic and matching fridge. The monitors were also huge and cranked though. I was in low end heaven. I couldn't have handled hearing (or feeling) my instrument much louder though (probably would have made me sick). It was huge, warm, deep, and not breaking up (country/southern rock band). Again, "loud" and "deep" are relative terms. People think my current cover band is super loud- I think it's really tame....

 

[Coolhandjjl]

Better education is needed and less marketing hype. Everyday I read about some beginner looking for a cab to go really low. Well, a-duh, this is a BASS forum. Then he complains that many of the commercially available cabs are rated to just 50Hz or so, while his home Hi-Fi speakers are rated to 20Hz, and thus begins his totally useless quest for something that doesn't exist, wasting his time and money.

* also, I was sort of ignoring this thread because there are plenty of loud cabs and there are plenty of gnarly cabs... I'd consider those to be ones that enjoy going non-linear and sound good with cone breakup. I don't believe that the 3015LF loaded cabs fit into that category. The xlim is too close to the xmax to be useful for that tone.

One of my heads is an Orange Terror Bass 1000LH. With a bit of gain overdrive, the 18Sound mid on my fEARful 15/6 gnarls just fine. My band mates love it, and so do I.

 

[BurningSkies]

One of my heads is an Orange Terror Bass 1000LH. With a bit of gain overdrive, the 18Sound mid on my fEARful 15/6 gnarls just fine. My band mates love it, and so do I.

Yep. But that gnarl is coming from your amp, rather than speaker cone breakup due to over excursion.

 

[Coolhandjjl]

There's more than one way to skin a cat!

 

[BurningSkies]

There's more than one way to skin a cat!

Of course. But some guys are specifically looking for a cab that has speaker cone breakup as part of their sound. I don't think that the person who wants a cab that 'gnarls' at you would like what a 3015 does.

 

[drpepper]

Ok CL400Peavey- put up or shut up right?? I can dig it! I'll play along (resume below as to not bore anyone else). I will point out the obvious though- I'm not the one that comes onto a public forum discussing people's "inferior" gear, constantly suggesting other "superior" gear, passing myself off as an "expert", while providing no context. I play off the shelf stuff, find your posts to typically be condescending, and think that you do a disservice to the newbies and others who are here looking for real world advice. I'm the yin to your yang, so to speak. If someone, on a public forum, injects their "expert" opinion on every single topic related to bass cabs, I have the right to try and decipher if said "expert" has any idea what he's talking about. I think it may just be a valuable service to this forum. I didn't reply to your other topic for reasons I'm not allowed to address here (forum rules).

To the OP- as you can see from Burning Skies post (who knows what he's talking about from what I see on his vids), an 810 will typically handle any gig, however it's not optimal for his needs. He has very specific needs (legit reggae, and I believe, correct me if I'm wrong Burning, he likes little to no breakup in his tone, or at least from his speakers. Tons of clean headroom. He's playing one of the best preamps money can buy (built in my hometown by the way ) When I was gigging strictly reggae/dub I loved my 810 being pushed hard and the breakup it had (different tonal goals).

As I stated above- I think about 10% of all players would be unhappy with an 810's capabilities live- and those 10% are completely justified for their reasons. I just tend to think they are in the minority, although legit. I don't think however that EVERYONE who diminishes the capability of an 810 knows what they're talking about, especially from stage time (graphs yes, tech sheets maybe, but not from gigging and touring with one).

My resume for anyone who gives a crud-...

I give a crud. What an excellent post, Slade. I don't know if anyone else will thank you for it, but I will...Thank you.

I know there are differing opinions on "anonymity" in posting, with some taking the opinion that keeping band links and information (even just on gear) about yourself is somehow a purely negative thing...attention grabbing and saying "Look at me, look at me!" Participation on this forum runs from the absolute novice to the touring/recording professional and everything in between. There's nothing wrong with being at any point on that spectrum.

I was just having this conversation with someone about how, on the Internet, it's so easy to "puff up" and pad. Personally, I appreciate having some idea of who I'm talking to. As I had said in that conversation, I'm a for-profit, weekend hobbyist, and I put my links in my sig not to brag or say "Hey, look at me!" I know there's nothing to brag about. I do it because it's what I wish everybody did. In an online discussion group, it can be beneficial to have some sense of other participants for various reasons. You might find that someone is similarly situated to yourself (or even just close by, for people who choose to share their location). You might find someone who's doing something you aspire to. You might find someone who could be helped with some (unsolicited) advice/experience that you have.

I think it enriches the experience of participating here.

 

[DukeLeJeune]

Actually they take a sharp dive around 100hz. I dont really consider that deep.

YMMV.

Very interesting curve. Is that an Ampeg 810? I assume it has a (well-integrated) tweeter, whatever it is.

 

[PortlandBass77]

Go on CL and look for old Peavey's, they more than fit the bill (and for wayyyyyy less money).

 

[slade]

So your opinion on what is currently available only holds so much weight, and is restricted to what equipment you have played through.

I have sat an ampeg 810e down next to my cabs. I know how they perform in comparison, on the gig. If my opinion doesnt matter to you, by all means block me. Actually please do.
.

Well I did as you asked- I posted my "resume" and you replied in a few minutes which implies you didn't even waste the time of checking out the videos which you asked for. You have, I'm assuming, nothing to share (other than lot's of opinion, none of which can be backed up with real world experience). I'm going to make a few assumptions from here on out when I see your posts, and maybe others will too-

1) you play in small bars (at best) and think you need a big rig (which you most likely don't)
2) you play outside sometimes (in parking lots), and think you need a big rig (which you most likely don't)
3) you are obsessed with buying and defending gear which you don't need and can't truly optimize (you're not that guy and your gigs never call for it).
4) you play out at said small bars once every three months or so, in a busy year.

Until you provide any kind of info to the contrary I submit that 1, 2, 3, and 4 are correct, AND that 1,2,3, and 4 wouldn't need to be pointed out if you were A) cool and supportive of other bass players who need help with gear B) honest with yourself and the rest of us and C) spent your time improving your playing and resume and not bashing others that probably have more experience than you and, most likely, sound better than you with their inferior gear.

I again, encourage you to post any recordings, band websites, gigging schedules etc (or anything else really) that enlightens us to who you are as a player (so we all have an understanding of your expertise).

If you can't (which I know you can't) - quit throwing stones from a glass house. Be cool man. Admit who you are. Admit where you are as a player. Don't pretend to be something that you aren't (especially on a public forum where people can look you up and see what you've actually never done). We're all just bass players, of all different levels, but with the same underlying goals. I've got huge gaps in my chops. I get too drunk sometimes and play for shart. I should have spent more time harmonizing the lydian scale and less time playing with the ladies in the corner....

set yourself free man! You'll be so much happier. Your posts won't piss everyone off all the time. you won't be constantly bickering with everyone over details that no one really cares about. You can do this man!! Turn the corner!!!

 

[CL400Peavey]

Very interesting curve. Is that an Ampeg 810? I assume it has a (well-integrated) tweeter, whatever it is.

Pulled the URL from Bills site ages ago.

 

[CL400Peavey]

...

So if I have never heard of you, or any of the music you play, your opinion on gear some how matters less? I'll wait patiently for Tony Levin, Wooten, McCartney, and Flea to close out this thread then.

We have already established in previous conversations that I am a no name player, playing no name locations, in a no name town, with a hack band, with hack bass chops. Cool?

Do you think that makes my playing situation more or less similar to the rest of the TB community?

 

[BurningSkies]

To me it matters not whether you are a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. I got into it with Mike Dimmin once who basically said 'because I play professionally my opinion counts and quit listening to these other hacks on TB'. Might as well shut down TB. It's a fallacy to assume that pro players know more about the gear they use. You don't get a PhD in electronics, in acoustic science or any other relevant field to be a bass player in a band, pro or not. Most of them don't even have BFA's in playing. Hell, even professional sound engineers often have no formal education in their field beyond sitting at a board most nights of the week. The junk I've heard come out of the mouths of both pro players and sound is pretty awesome.

I've seen both sides of the coin in terms of playing. In the 90's I played in a couple of bands that had a decent touring range. One was a NYC based hard industrial act that worked NYC and the coast. Played clubs, festival stages and such from little places like the Cooler and Lion's Den to the Limelight when it was a big deal, 9:30 in DC, festivals and fairly large outdoor venues. Another was signed to the now defunct Moon Records in NYC and distributed internationally by Caroline and Dutch East among others. Played the right half of the country, Canada, etc, also including decent name clubs, theaters, colleges and outdoor festivals from Boston down the coast, mid west, etc. Anyway. I've met a bunch of players of ranges from 'hardly out of the garage' to 'It's my full time gig for 40 years'. In both those extremes there are guys who know their sh*t and those who don't. These days I stay local/regional because I like to sleep in my own bed and I like things like health insurance.

Unlike many fields where how you 'rise to the top' is based upon the merits of your abilities and the leveraging of your knowledge, bass playing isn't one of them. Guys make it from grinding away and pushing it in some cases or complete dumb luck in others. There are guys with great ears in all tiers of playing and guys who can't hear a damn thing. There are guys who know tech and guys who can't find the on switch.

 

[lomo]

Agree with above. The correlation between tech knowledge and musical notoriety is zip. You don't have to make great wine to know great wine or how it's made. The ability to hear well or understand physics (and it IS physics) is not dependent on how well one plays. As has been posted, most people find a fridge goes low enough because it goes as low as most bass cabs have gone for most of the time bass cabs have existed. Cool, but cabs that go lower, clearer, and louder per pound are now available, and for many, that's an advance. There's no moral imperative either way, however. It's just bass gear, people; it's inherent cosmic significance is nil (and the same can be said for tone).

 

[CL400Peavey]

Guys....
What is Flea playing? That is all you should care about.

 

[iualum]

To me it matters not whether you are a small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. I got into it with Mike Dimmin once who basically said 'because I play professionally my opinion counts and quit listening to these other hacks on TB'. Might as well shut down TB. It's a fallacy to assume that pro players know more about the gear they use. You don't get a PhD in electronics, in acoustic science or any other relevant field to be a bass player in a band, pro or not. Most of them don't even have BFA's in playing. Hell, even professional sound engineers often have no formal education in their field beyond sitting at a board most nights of the week. The junk I've heard come out of the mouths of both pro players and sound is pretty awesome.

I've seen both sides of the coin in terms of playing. In the 90's I played in a couple of bands that had a decent touring range. One was a NYC based hard industrial act that worked NYC and the coast. Played clubs, festival stages and such from little places like the Cooler and Lion's Den to the Limelight when it was a big deal, 9:30 in DC, festivals and fairly large outdoor venues. Another was signed to the now defunct Moon Records in NYC and distributed internationally by Caroline and Dutch East among others. Played the right half of the country, Canada, etc, also including decent name clubs, theaters, colleges and outdoor festivals from Boston down the coast, mid west, etc. Anyway. I've met a bunch of players of ranges from 'hardly out of the garage' to 'It's my full time gig for 40 years'. In both those extremes there are guys who know their sh*t and those who don't. These days I stay local/regional because I like to sleep in my own bed and I like things like health insurance.

Unlike many fields where how you 'rise to the top' is based upon the merits of your abilities and the leveraging of your knowledge, bass playing isn't one of them. Guys make it from grinding away and pushing it in some cases or complete dumb luck in others. There are guys with great ears in all tiers of playing and guys who can't hear a damn thing. There are guys who know tech and guys who can't find the on switch.

 

[iualum]

Agree with above. The correlation between tech knowledge and musical notoriety is zip. You don't have to make great wine to know great wine or how it's made. The ability to hear well or understand physics (and it IS physics) is not dependent on how well one plays. As has been posted, most people find a fridge goes low enough because it goes as low as most bass cabs have gone for most of the time bass cabs have existed. Cool, but cabs that go lower, clearer, and louder per pound are now available, and for many, that's an advance. There's no moral imperative either way, however. It's just bass gear, people; it's inherent cosmic significance is nil (and the same can be said for tone).

 

[canadian*eh]

Hmmm I have to wonder if guitar players have as much dick measuring about there gear as us bass players. You know what I could give a damn about what gear you play or who or what you have played with or were........ The fact is we are all bass players which by the very name means we are nobody's. Walk down the street and ask anyone who there favourite bass player is and yeah they will look at you like you are high. We all have gear we love and gear we hate. We knows what works for each if our situations..... And like I said before if it works for you and you are happy with it why change. And if that's the case than why is everyone so butt hurt when someone disagrees or says their gear is better...... Boy are we really that unsacure about who we are as bass players and in the gear we play??..... If so maybe it's time to find a different instrument....... Maybe like keys..... Never met a cocky keys player yet no matters good they are or what keyboard they play. Here's a novel idea let's start acting like grownups and less like my 2 and 3 year old..... Geez even they agree to disagree. I love playing bass and I love the gear I have the privilege of playing through and how it has enhanced my sound...... And I am happy for you if your gear gives you the sound you love.