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Loudest, gnarly'est, cab for $1000?

#82
CL400Peavey said:
S/D rock, funk/rnb.



Depends on the 810. Most commercial cabinets are not producing much under 70-80hz.



I run a fDeck at 35hz. Don't have to boost lows, as my cab is not lacking in them.
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so how often is your rig carrying the room(s) you play? No Front of house? If you do have front of house, how big is the stage you're playing on (because now your rig is just a stage monitor of course)? If you do have front of house, how are you ensuring that your 35hz is being reproduced through the PA? When was the last time you gigged an 810 more than once in a year in a room you weren't familiar with? If you don't have front of house, you really have no idea how your 35hz is being translated to the entire room (please read that it ISN'T and that your mix is probably shaky at best). Your 20' cable that you sound check with out front tells your nothing unless you're entire room is only 20' deep (which maybe it is).
Once again- if you want to make specific claims, give specific examples- provide some context of your gigs (types of stages, room capacities, pa capacities, stage volume, real world experience etc) and even better yet (like Burning Skies) post a video of your gig. If not, someone such as the OP has no idea if he should listen to your opinion or not.

An 810 is adequate for 90% of real world players. I don't have one as it's overkill at this point in my career. I still play very loud and very deep (in my opinion of course). If someone tells you that an 810 won't go deep or loud generally speaking, you might want to question their experience and make them prove it to you (some guys can because they have very specific needs and will if asked). If someone goes on and on about their gear here, make them prove it to you. Ask to see their videos playing their gear live on stage. If they are here, constantly touting their gear and the superiority of said gear, they owe it to you to show you real world applications. If they can't, take their advice under scrutiny.

Like I said- there are a few guys out there that need super specific rigs for specific gigs (heavy upright slap, super heavy dub, etc). Those guys can fill you in on what you should look into. Just make sure you are getting advice from guys who are actually qualified to give it to you ;)

So yeah- under a grand? Snag one or two 810s!!
 
#83
I would try a Henry the 8x10 but they have hard to replace speakers.

For loud punk rock a svt 8 10 is great if you find a used one. And they look cool.

I really like the markbass 151, 2 of those would be perfect I think if going new. Tight, low, anyone know what speaker is in them? I heard b c but no solid info.
 
#84
slade said:
so how often is your rig carrying the room(s) you play? No Front of house? If you do have front of house, how big is the stage you're playing on (because now your rig is just a stage monitor of course)? If you do have front of house, how are you ensuring that your 35hz is being reproduced through the PA? When was the last time you gigged an 810 more than once in a year in a room you weren't familiar with? If you don't have front of house, you really have no idea how your 35hz is being translated to the entire room (please read that it ISN'T and that your mix is probably shaky at best). Your 20' cable that you sound check with out front tells your nothing unless you're entire room is only 20' deep (which maybe it is).
Click to expand...

My rig is carrying the house about 95% of the gigs I play. The vast majority of venues around here do not supply a PA. My band brings ours in. Combining a shortened set up time, and the fact that my rig uses a pair of world class sub woofers, it makes more sense to me to have my rig carry the room. Our PA frankly doesnt hold a candle to my rig. So I leave the PA subs to handle the kick.

I have not owned an 810 in over 2.5 years, but in that time I have still had reason to play through one fairly frequently (cab provide at a practice space, or provided on a multiple band ticket). In that time I have always felt my low end was lacking. Manageable of course, but lacking. That isnt from a, "out in the house" perspective, that is a, "standing right in front of it" perspective.

So how do I know what I hear on stage is what is heard out in the room?

1. I have had the opportunity to hear my rig played by other bassists. Both in side, and outside.
2. There tend to be other musicians at my gigs, or soundmen, who give me positive reports of my sound.

There are additionally a number of other dual 3015LF players on this board that would support my claims. @BurningSkies being one of them, but there are others as well. @canadian*eh

slade said:
Once again- if you want to make specific claims, give specific examples- provide some context of your gigs (types of stages, room capacities, pa capacities, stage volume, real world experience etc) and even better yet (like Burning Skies) post a video of your gig. If not, someone such as the OP has no idea if he should listen to your opinion or not.
Click to expand...

We have gone round and round on this, and I have responded to you on this front in other threads, with no response from you on the matter. I have yet to see a video of your gigs, or contextual examples of why your braying and naysaying should be held in any regard.

slade said:
An 810 is adequate for 90% of real world players. I don't have one as it's overkill at this point in my career. I still play very loud and very deep (in my opinion of course). If someone tells you that an 810 won't go deep or loud generally speaking, you might want to question their experience and make them prove it to you (some guys can because they have very specific needs and will if asked). If someone goes on and on about their gear here, make them prove it to you. Ask to see their videos playing their gear live on stage. If they are here, constantly touting their gear and the superiority of said gear, they owe it to you to show you real world applications. If they can't, take their advice under scrutiny.
Click to expand...

So lets turn this around. You admit that something like an 810 would be overkill for your gigs. Why should your opinion on this topic be valid? You admittedly dont play at volumes where the "loudest, gnarly'est" cab would be required.

As far as my claim on the Ampeg 810, I supported it with a measurement taken by a highly respected audio designer. A third party to this conversation, who designs cabs that have not yet come up in this thread.

slade said:
Like I said- there are a few guys out there that need super specific rigs for specific gigs (heavy upright slap, super heavy dub, etc). Those guys can fill you in on what you should look into. Just make sure you are getting advice from guys who are actually qualified to give it to you ;)
Click to expand...

Sure. lets ask @dukeorock and Geoff Firebaugh what they use on loud gigs.

slade said:
So yeah- under a grand? Snag one or two 810s!!
Click to expand...

My impression was the OP was looking for a single cab? My big rig cab would be hard to find under a grand. Which is why I didnt recommend it. The cab I did recommend will still put an 810 to shame.
 
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#86
CL400Peavey said:
@BurningSkies Have you ever show up to a gig, seen an 810e, and thought to yourself:



I have.
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It's not that I can't get loud, it's that I have to roll off the lows so it doesn't distort or break up, even with a LPF. I know I'm going to have to play a game of trying to find a balance of is this low enough vs. is this loud enough. That may end up in reduced volume...but then I've rarely been faced with 2 8x10's so that might change the equation. If I was playing two of them I'd toe them in so that they were in a V pattern to try to minimize whatever increased beaming or other strange room affects might occur if I was carrying a FOH. To be honest, If I'm faced with a provided 810, I'm probably on a stage with a decent PA for FOH, and I'm only really worried that I'm going to be heard on stage by my band mates...and I'll try to turn the cab across stage or on a diagonal. I too use a 35hz high pass on my rig. You'd be surprised at what you're 'not missing' when its in use. Meaning that even when my amp is FOH which does happen a fair amount, I use it. I also use it in my DI send, so even on big house PA systems I'm not giving that sub-content. I do boost the range that runs north of 35hz though, so I've got a pretty good bump that probably looks like a hill or slope from 35hz up to a couple hundred Hz. and that is trimmed precipitously at 35hz.
 
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#87
This:

upload_2014-12-4_9-9-0.jpeg


Remember, you'll have to setup the EQ before putting the rig up.
 
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#89
I
CL400Peavey said:
.

There are additionally a number of other dual 3015LF players on this board that would support my claims. @BurningSkies being one of them, but there are others as well. @canadian*eh
.
Click to expand...

Are you dragging me into something for which I will regret?? :o ;)


As someone who has played from time to time in a 2500 seat 3 level auditorium with both an 810 and a 1515/66/1 I can say there is a difference. But in my case it wasn't from lack of lows. I was running an swr megoliath 810 and for anyone who has used one you will know that when it comes to 810's They are the one to beat when it comes to bottom end......they are a beast. The biggest difference between it and my fEARful was being able to deliver that crazy low end while still staying clear and not mudding up the mix. I had to rely heavily on foh with my 810 to stay clean. When I brought my 1515/66/1 the first time the sound guy was shocked..... He pulled me out of the mix cause I was able to handle the lows better and stay clearer than they could with the house.I honestly can't count the times during sound check for the first time at a new place that I have had the sound guy come up and ask if I was cool with being taken out of the foh due to the fact I had no reason to have use it. Is this Just by chance?? I think not. In the end I love my rig and have never had such happy sound guys since I started using it. But if there was no such thing as a fEARful 66 I would be using a 810 again I'm a heartbeat. Maybe not the best answer or the one people want to hear I just know what works for me and what doesn't. It's not a one size fits all thing....... You know different strokes for different folks. If what you have works for you than keep doing it. No point fixing what's not broken. Cheers all ~Elliot
 
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#93
slade said:
So just to clarify- 810s are incapable of producing the fundamental low end frequencies of bass guitar?...
Click to expand...

The fundamental will be there in the "Fridge, but very difficult to detect and will be overpowered by the first overtone for a variety of reasons. First, the first overtone produces a more powerful signal from the get-go, and second, the fridge's low end response is very far down the dB scale from the 0dB reference. Most of the interesting and more powerful tones come from the first overtone, AKA the 2nd harmonic. So for a standard tuned bass, 82Hz on the E string is where the action is.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-cab-with-very-low-response-20hz.1012858/

Study this thread to learn about low. What is is, do you need it, do you want it, problems associated with going too low.
http://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-cab-with-very-low-response-20hz.1012858/

The 'Fridge is not designed to go low. For those that want to go low, first there were horn loaded bins, and today, there are ported designs to go low.
 
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#94
Ok CL400Peavey- put up or shut up right?? I can dig it! I'll play along (resume below as to not bore anyone else). I will point out the obvious though- I'm not the one that comes onto a public forum discussing people's "inferior" gear, constantly suggesting other "superior" gear, passing myself off as an "expert", while providing no context. I play off the shelf stuff, find your posts to typically be condescending, and think that you do a disservice to the newbies and others who are here looking for real world advice. I'm the yin to your yang, so to speak. If someone, on a public forum, injects their "expert" opinion on every single topic related to bass cabs, I have the right to try and decipher if said "expert" has any idea what he's talking about. I think it may just be a valuable service to this forum. I didn't reply to your other topic for reasons I'm not allowed to address here (forum rules).

To the OP- as you can see from Burning Skies post (who knows what he's talking about from what I see on his vids), an 810 will typically handle any gig, however it's not optimal for his needs. He has very specific needs (legit reggae, and I believe, correct me if I'm wrong Burning, he likes little to no breakup in his tone, or at least from his speakers. Tons of clean headroom. He's playing one of the best preamps money can buy (built in my hometown by the way ;) ) When I was gigging strictly reggae/dub I loved my 810 being pushed hard and the breakup it had (different tonal goals).

As I stated above- I think about 10% of all players would be unhappy with an 810's capabilities live- and those 10% are completely justified for their reasons. I just tend to think they are in the minority, although legit. I don't think however that EVERYONE who diminishes the capability of an 810 knows what they're talking about, especially from stage time (graphs yes, tech sheets maybe, but not from gigging and touring with one).

My resume for anyone who gives a crud-

Most of my recording/gigging/touring experience happened between 1994 and about 2009 (decided to raise a family). Played in about 15 bands with my brother from another mother- [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
No video unfortunately :( We didn't video anything back then. Here are some studio outtakes, and now he's got a million live vids on youtube with his Nashville band if you're interested. Played on 8 full length albums with him. If you check out his self titled album, Angles and Curves, Paranoid- I'm the bass player.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leroy+powell+i+go+to+extremes



Currently-

Amee Chapman http://www.ameechapman.com
Currently reforming her band (technically I'm the musical director). Live vids to be found on youtube- here are a couple-





Corporate/Cover/Party Band- "Room 9" If you look on youtube and search Room 9 Santa Cruz all kinds of bad videos pop up. Here's an unprofessional mock up that a wife did like 4 years ago- Posted this one as it's all being played on a 210 combo with no FOH, on typical gigs most players here will find themselves on. Of course, video camera mic only which only does the bass so much justice. Live it was decent though ;)


Another cool artist I work with (played on this record)


Some other gigging bands I've played/recorded in-
Leilas Fault
Super Sonic Space Shuttle
Satellites and Magnets
Agents of Ecstasy
The Missing Channel
Ghost Town Tavern
Indeed
The Zealots

Many more not worth mentioning...

I'm a meat and potatoes kind of player and have never claimed to be anything more than I am. I think I have a bit more experience than the average player here, but much less than a lot of guys. I offer my opinions based on my experience, and when I question someones claims, I like to hear about their experiences so that I can try to put things in perspective. If you don't like being put on the spot with regards to your real world experience, maybe a private forum is a better place to hang, or maybe think about the fact that when you post, everyone here is wondering if you can play and what you sound like when you do (I'm just the only one putting the question out there). I will continue to pose questions, and do so respectfully- but I'm not going to just stay silent because someone yells louder (or more frequently). That's just not in my nature.

I can speak to whether or not an 810 can get loud and deep because I've toured and gigged them in extremely loud bands. I don't use one anymore because I'm not playing in extremely loud bands anymore ;)

I'd still like to check out anything you've played on (live or otherwise) and look forward to it. I assume you're going to just chop my post up into little quotes and not really get to the bone, and that's cool too I guess. Have fun with it!!
 
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#95
slade said:
I can speak to whether or not an 810 can get loud and deep because I've toured and gigged them in extremely loud bands. I don't use one anymore because I'm not playing in extremely loud bands anymore ;)
Click to expand...

If by deep, you mean low, then no, 'Fridges do not go low because they are not engineered to go low. Again, not everyone needs to, nor wants to go low.

But the OPs opening post stated he was indeed looking for lots of lows. But that is a subjective statement.
 
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#96
Coolhandjjl said:
If by deep, you mean low, then no, 'Fridges do not go low because they are not engineered to go low. Again, not everyone needs to, nor wants to go low.
Click to expand...
Ampeg fridges are not engineered to go real low. Some other fridges are, though. Can't say I give a crap myself, though. I so don't want that lowness, and I've actually sold a couple cabs I liked otherwise because they went too low for me.
 
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#97
slade said:
I don't use one anymore because I'm not playing in extremely loud bands anymore.
Click to expand...

So your opinion on what is currently available only holds so much weight, and is restricted to what equipment you have played through.

I have sat an ampeg 810e down next to my cabs. I know how they perform in comparison, on the gig. If my opinion doesnt matter to you, by all means block me. Actually please do.


JimmyM said:
Ampeg fridges are not engineered to go real low. Some other fridges are, though. Can't say I give a crap myself, though. I so don't want that lowness, and I've actually sold a couple cabs I liked otherwise because they went too low for me.
Click to expand...

And I get that Jimmy. I am not bashing the Ampeg fridge, it works for a lot of guys. It's objective performance, compared to another cabs objective performance, shouldnt get people's manties all in a wad.
 
#99
canadian*eh said:
I

Are you dragging me into something for which I will regret?? :oops: ;)


As someone who has played from time to time in a 2500 seat 3 level auditorium with both an 810 and a 1515/66/1 I can say there is a difference. But in my case it wasn't from lack of lows. I was running an swr megoliath 810 and for anyone who has used one you will know that when it comes to 810's They are the one to beat when it comes to bottom end......they are a beast. The biggest difference between it and my fEARful was being able to deliver that crazy low end while still staying clear and not mudding up the mix. I had to rely heavily on foh with my 810 to stay clean. When I brought my 1515/66/1 the first time the sound guy was shocked..... He pulled me out of the mix cause I was able to handle the lows better and stay clearer than they could with the house.I honestly can't count the times during sound check for the first time at a new place that I have had the sound guy come up and ask if I was cool with being taken out of the foh due to the fact I had no reason to have use it. Is this Just by chance?? I think not. In the end I love my rig and have never had such happy sound guys since I started using it. But if there was no such thing as a fEARful 66 I would be using a 810 again I'm a heartbeat. Maybe not the best answer or the one people want to hear I just know what works for me and what doesn't. It's not a one size fits all thing....... You know different strokes for different folks. If what you have works for you than keep doing it. No point fixing what's not broken. Cheers all ~Elliot
Click to expand...


I've had the same thing in both small and larger places...cleaner and clearer out front than from the house system. I even played one outdoor municipal festival and the soundguy mentioned that my rig was carrying the outdoor space better than his system, and instead he pulled me out and raised the rest of the band's levels to match mine, then commented that it was the best (and loudest) sound that that stage had had all day. I sometimes have people here ask how I can play so loud and not offend soundmen, and this is the secret...a speaker setup that can be clean very loud and coherent in the FOH.
 
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#100
Coolhandjjl said:
If by deep, you mean low, then no, 'Fridges do not go low because they are not engineered to go low. Again, not everyone needs to, nor wants to go low.

But the OPs opening post stated he was indeed looking for lots of lows. But that is a subjective statement.
Click to expand...

I often think that 'a lot down low' really means "between 60hz and 250hz." Most kick drum body sits at about 60hz. And a lot of boom-content-impact is really in the 100-200hz range, so yes, a standard 810 does that just fine.

Once people become capable of reproducing down in the range of 30-40hz effectively, what you end up with is unnecessary excursion, loss of useable amp headroom and problems in the room, problems with hollow stages, etc.
 
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