I've just called Don - I think I'm getting a new cab -
12" B & C or Beyma 4 ohm 500w
to go along with my LMII
12" B & C or Beyma 4 ohm 500w
to go along with my LMII
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Low Down Sound Cab Club started!
- Thread starter agfrag
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Received my 2 way, 112/ Selenium horn cab from Don. After an initial adjustment to the attenuator plate that rattled, the cab is everything I wanted in a small, one handed grab cab for low volume gigs. The 12" is an eminence 3012LF. I am using a Shuttle 6 with it at 8 ohms, so I am getting around 350 watts which seems to be enough, so far. The cab is so light ( around 34 lbs ) and very well balanced that I probably would add another 112 without horn if I needed more volume. Excellent build quality, total satisfaction with LDS. Plus, Don is alot of fun to talk to. We swapped gig stories for about a half hour on the phone! And the price was very much in my budget plan. really, I don't see how you could go wrong with LDS for a custom built cab. 
Sorry for taking so long to chime in. Regarding this post, I think the confusion here is that the "poor slobs" didn't explicitly tell Don "I want you to build me Greenboy's fEarful 15/6 utilizing an 800Hz crossover". I know that's the case because I never got a call from Don asking me "What is this fEarful design people are talking about?". Be that as it may, Don asked me to design a crossover for the 3015LF and the 6ND410. As always I gave him a basic crossover. The crossover point is actually more in the range of 1300-1400 Hz. I used a 14ga air coil on the woofer, and a 3rd order high pass utilizing poly caps, an 18ga coil and high power resistor (for a pad) on the 6ND410. The values for all of the components were derived from computer models based on measurements I already had for the 3015LF and an approximation of the 6ND410.
Now that it is crystal clear that people are looking for the fEarful design, Don is bringing me a cabinet loaded with the 3015LF and 6ND410 to measure. Based on those measurements I will design an 800Hz crossover, for those that want it. Of course if you want Passwind's crossover or Greenboy's (has that been published yet?), just tell Don. He will pretty much build whatever you ask for.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Ralf
Now that it is crystal clear that people are looking for the fEarful design, Don is bringing me a cabinet loaded with the 3015LF and 6ND410 to measure. Based on those measurements I will design an 800Hz crossover, for those that want it. Of course if you want Passwind's crossover or Greenboy's (has that been published yet?), just tell Don. He will pretty much build whatever you ask for.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
Ralf
The question is Ralf which one is going to sound better/smoother without sounding honky.
I guess we're fixing to find out.
I'm perfectly happy with waiting for my LDS 156 while testing of crossovers is done.
Maybe you could have Ken come over too and get his take.
I guess we're fixing to find out.
I'm perfectly happy with waiting for my LDS 156 while testing of crossovers is done.
Maybe you could have Ken come over too and get his take.
Hey Ralf,
We just got finished testing the 'sister cab' to the one Don is bringing you. Let me tell you, you did just fine with the crossover you came up with.
Here's the link to my thread. Feel free to fix any of the technical info I got wrong.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556679
Great review, KJ. With what Ralf is saying and you're saying, I would love to hear an A/B between Ralf's 800hz crossover and the one he's designed closer to 1300hz. Obviously I don't expect that, but it'd be awesome to hear.
I'm still working on making a decision and all that jazz but I think I am going to go with the lower crossover (but not sure which one yet). Not to say I don't trust your guys' ears, but I am fairly sure I will be happiest with the least amount of 3015LF int he upper mids possible.
I'm still working on making a decision and all that jazz but I think I am going to go with the lower crossover (but not sure which one yet). Not to say I don't trust your guys' ears, but I am fairly sure I will be happiest with the least amount of 3015LF int he upper mids possible.
Ralf, thanks so much for your explanation of the crossovers. I also am extremely curious to hear the difference between the two crossovers in that cab.
+1 My guess is, the average schmo like you and me, it probably won't make a huge amount of difference. I surely didn't hear any strangeness in the top end of the 115 when I turned the mid driver off, and I didn't hear any hole (or at least any hole that bothered me) in the upper mids.
One thing I would do FOR SURE, is make sure you get an attenuator on that mid driver. I know the cab guru's say it's not a good idea and not needed, but that thing was WAY bright when turned all the way up, and I would assume it would sound even more-so at a lower crossover point (not sure there).
As I mentioned in the other thread, I took a look at my original schematic and there is no resistor on the mid. That's not out of the ordinary. I usually leave the driver handling the high end a little hotter if I know there's going to be an L-pad on it, but it sounds to me like it could use another db or two of padding on it though.
Ralf
Ralf
Don't pad it back any further Ralf, especially if there's an attenuator for the mid.
Chef
In Memoriam
padding the mid down...
keep in mind, KJ's basement testing didn't have the cab competing with cymbals, etc.
keep in mind, KJ's basement testing didn't have the cab competing with cymbals, etc.
Yep, But in fairness we've been using the Jung basement laboratory
for several years and have kind of gotten to the point were we can predict real world results there. I can't remember we've been down there checked out a cab and our observations didn't hold up when Ken broke it out for a few gigs. But I do agree in principle, no basement is like a real gig when it comes to the issues of room, competition, and mix.
- Dec 18, 2000
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- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
If you want bright but level voicing the 6ND410 should still be padded back 3 dB. If you want darker voicing go even more. Parity (no pad) is not just bright, but shrill and fatiquing - unless you do a lot of counter-EQ. I personally think it's a boon to have a mid driver that can actually keep up with a fairly sensitive woofer and actually do it even with 3 dB of padding. That gives twice the power handling too, for the mid driver.
+1 I always would rather dial it back than trying to dial it in. That 6.5 is really something. I assume that 10 o'clock level of the attenuator would equate to roughtly -3db (it sounded nice an even, but anything but dark to my ear at that level).
Sorry Ralf!!
I wasn't taking any nasty swings at anyone in my seemingly sarcastic post. I was under the impression that a couple of other posters had specifically requested the fEarful design.
I even wrote a disclaimer a few posts later.
As I stated there, I've been contemplating an LDS build for myself, and a while back, even discussed the matter with the designer regarding his feelings on having a commercial cab maker building his design. So, no offense toward you or Don.
I will say, however, that the fEarful design has two features which would be important to me, that seem to have been omitted from the LDS version. One being the actual cab form factor. The fEarful is a taller cab that gets the M/R driver higher and closer to ear level. I also would prefer a true crossover in the 500-800Hz range to fully utilize the acclaimed 18sound 6" driver.
As one who has had previous crossover issues in another three-way cab, I might be a tad sensitive in that area.
Sorry Ralf!!
I wasn't taking any nasty swings at anyone in my seemingly sarcastic post. I was under the impression that a couple of other posters had specifically requested the fEarful design.
I even wrote a disclaimer a few posts later.
As I stated there, I've been contemplating an LDS build for myself, and a while back, even discussed the matter with the designer regarding his feelings on having a commercial cab maker building his design. So, no offense toward you or Don.
I will say, however, that the fEarful design has two features which would be important to me, that seem to have been omitted from the LDS version. One being the actual cab form factor. The fEarful is a taller cab that gets the M/R driver higher and closer to ear level. I also would prefer a true crossover in the 500-800Hz range to fully utilize the acclaimed 18sound 6" driver.
As one who has had previous crossover issues in another three-way cab, I might be a tad sensitive in that area.
No worries. I was just trying to point out that Don has not (to date built) the fEarful 15/6. He has built cabs that use the same drivers, based on requests from TB'ers who've said "Build me a cab with the 3015LF and 6ND410. I've been hearing how great those drivers are over on TalkBass".
I'm curious though, what do you consider a "true crossover". Does the crossover point being set higher than 500-800Hz make it somehow "not true"?
Ralf
I expect he is delineating between high pass filters and crossovers and his post provides two criteria (1) a crossover (as opposed to a high pass filter) and (2) setting the target crossover range.
Just to be clear, I did specify the fEarful formfactor and an 800hz-ish crossover up-front, and I believe Billhilly specified the same. Getting that midrange driver up high is a majorly awesome thing.
Also, a lot of folk had heard from Don that he was using a high pass at 1.6khz and no low pass, and it took quite a while for him to let us know that there was a low pass on the woofer.
Obviously, knowing what we know now, you are using a true crossover - a low pass and a high pass. I think Don and a couple folks had miscommunications about it early on that spread really fast.
Some folks - Billhilly and Bassplayer#### I guess had had some talks with Don and came away with the idea that you weren't low passing the woofer.
That's been set to rest now but I think lbwdog missed the memo.
Yep, I’m good to go. I spoke again with Don and my cab should be a fEarful clone. I sent him the drawings from GB when I first spoke with him about it and after Ralph’s post, I confirmed he would use a “true” crossover on the 15 and 6.5 with a HP on the tweet at 4.5 and an attenuator and on/off switch.
I’ve got a house gig at a big ol’ TX honkytonk so I’ll be shooting the juice to it as soon as it shows up and will report back with a review from tequila central.
I’ve got a house gig at a big ol’ TX honkytonk so I’ll be shooting the juice to it as soon as it shows up and will report back with a review from tequila central.
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