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Low Down Sound Cab Club started!

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With enough wattage, the 15/6 will be approximately as loud as your average 6x10 before crapping out. The 212/6 will be about as loud as your average 8x10 before crapping the bed.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the number of 4x10s weighing in under 70lbs you can count on one hand. There are still a number of production 4x10s up in the 100lb range.

No offense but this the exact type of comment that turns me off to the fEarful designs or should I say has me sceptical.

Let me name more then a handful of 4x10 cabinets that come in under 65 lbs....AE410, NL410, UL410, Golight 410, BMF410, SWR MM410, UL DIST410, LDS Neo 410, even the LDS staggered 410 Ken posted months back came in around 65 lbs.
 
I don't see a fEarful there. Usually what I see is a lot of people who don't get a lot of the design concepts doing something that has a casual resemblance, but beyond what drivers to use a lot of the other stuff whizzes right by. And any deeper analysis or discussion somehow get chumped down to "410 killer".

Somehow my statements like "given sufficient power, can make more broadband SPL with less distortion than (whatever) cab" into: "claims that it's a 410 killer". Well, that sure didn't come from me. I don't consider that it should have to sound like a 410 in every clip someone might make, and a clip sure isn't going to indicate that much about its true nature anyway. Nor is a few hours with one maybe, unless maybe it's at a problematic gig. For some it might hit them like a sledgehammer, for others it may be about acclimatization. Or they can just not get it.

I consider a lot of other qualities in fEarful performance and design just as important as, uh, its apparent ability to be argued about and spun off into unrelated designs that make money for someone not me. But there are plenty of choices out there once all the internet nuttery is dispensed with. I'm just happy I have cabs that satisfy me - both as a player and a listener - in a way nothing else out there has.

So I don't get the "410 killer" bit. But as far as SPL it's real simple. Even without the mid-driver and a properly voiced crossover, a 1212/6 is as sensitive as a typical efficient 310, and probably a few 410s in the range above 100 Hz. But due to its greater sensitivity at the low end, and its greater displacement limited power handling, it can keep on handling what even a 610 might balk at. If you have the power. Add in a proper crossover and a sreamin' mid driver and it can do that higher up as well, and sound as agressive as all hell.

But it's not voiced like a 410. Unless one EQ's it that way. It can be voiced a lot or other ways too. It isn't as limited to being only "one way". It's a lot more revealing about even subtle EQ changes over a broader swath of frequencies.

I like to grind. Actually I like to sound nasty a lot of the time. i often play music that should be that way. I think Ken's predispositions and limited time with this stuff keeps him from turning the distortion to 11, or instead, cranking a few frequencies and killing a few others and seeing how truly good these cabs are at doing a lot of different tonal profiles well. That's cool, but don't think it can't get STANK and CRANK.

Now another point. If the driver placements on the baffle, and the crossover allow - designs of the fEarful type done right are way better at filling a room evenly. Less likely to "mud up" even though one might be demanding scads of low end. Frankly I care about this as much as the incredibly limited one-position bass player perspective, because I know a lot of people don't always get PA support. I want them to sound as good as possible to the audience, and for the band mix not to get so trashed either on stage or out there in the room.

Anyway. This is a 60.4 pound fEarful with tiltback wheels and handle. Add a good waveguide and compression driver and a beefy highpass crossover for them and you maybe add 4 pounds. It's got enough venting to not wander in tuning when a megawatts is driven hard to it, and not make chuffies if there's reggaedom kingdom comin' on.



Thanks for the thoughful comments.

Are you saying that Don didn't build the 15/6 and 1212/6 that Ken reviewed in this thread to the fEarful specs? I was under the impression that the person that commissioned those builds specified your design.

Your thoughts on output and comparing to other common cabinets are well taken but often are melted down by guys like rpsands and his post just before yours to something they are not. That is my BIGGEST CONCERN and you see this popping up in all different threads around TB.

I tend to agree with Ken and I don't neccesarily prescibe to the theory that any tone profile can be simply dialed in with a decent EQ section. I have no real world experience with these cabinets in particular but generally I have never found a camelion cabinet that can be turned into something it is not.

thanks again....
 
I would absolutely agree with Ken's comments on the fEarful builds.

My LDS 15/6 is 45 lbs and with enough juice (I'm bridging 1000W into 8 ohms) it gets VERY loud with no breakup - just smoothness.

But as far as tone, it is deep, rich and pure but NOT grindy. This cab is far from a Bergantino AE410 which can be growly and grindy in the high mids.

It's a different tone for sure. I'm sure someone else can talk about whether or not the specs bear out that it will or won't outperform a 6x10. I don't play at earsplitting volume so the upper range of what this cab is capable in terms of moving air doesn't concern me at all. I wanted smooth and pure sounding tone with plenty of bottom and I got it.
 
+1 to most of the above, although I'm still not sure how you could EQ that amazing 18sound mid driver to sound like the top end of a 3015 non LF:)

Fairly large 4-5dB boost at a mid Q 1.5 or 1.8K Hz center, and roll off hard above that.

Forgot to tell you when we were talking, Ken, that when BurningSkies gave me the "bestestest rig I've ever had" thumbs up when he finished his 15/6 (no waveguide) I was especially thrilled because his gig is reggae - with a Dingwall. His first several gigs with it I think were no PA support, and knowing that one cab with a LMII was doing the big roots vibe really underlined how many ways fEarful can roll without losing a wheel in the process.

Me on the other hand, a lot of my time has been in bands where an overdriven tube head and an 810 or a 215 would be right at home. I really love being able to deal it out in that setting but also have low end extension that doesn't get mushy when the balls are to the wall. Normally that would require a mic'd classic big cab and some PA support to deal the lower content. But it's just little ol' me turning the stage to kindling. How could I not be happy? : }
 
No offense but this the exact type of comment that turns me off to the fEarful designs or should I say has me sceptical.

Let me name more then a handful of 4x10 cabinets that come in under 65 lbs....AE410, NL410, UL410, Golight 410, BMF410, SWR MM410, UL DIST410, LDS Neo 410, even the LDS staggered 410 Ken posted months back came in around 65 lbs.

It's not my job to convince you so no offense but I don't give a crap if you don't like the truth :) Be skeptical all you want. John_K is a believer after trying it and that guy was a way harder sell than you.

Note that every single one of the cabs you list, up to and including all of the LDS models, are more expensive than a 15.6 and weigh 10-20lbs more. They're right around the weight of a 212/6 which will get significantly louder than each and everyone of them on the low side and about as loud up top.

Also, for 4x10s over 65lbs that tons of people use:
Ampeg anything
Peavey anything (including the neo at a massive 66lbs ;)
Genz Xb and Ubers
Mesa Ph410
GK 410RBH/SBX/Neo
 
I also use my rig for reggae - well dub actually and my fEarful style LDS 15/6 is perfect. People that don't really play dub (or even reggae for that matter) just think that you can crank the bass on your amp, turn the rest of the EQ down and you have the right tone.

The reality is that it isn't just bass that you want for dub, but big, round, deep and CLEAN bass. Muddy and boomy bass is NOT what you want. The 15/6 is ideal for me and the Puma 1000 is a great match.

This rig is also phenomenal for my clean fretless. My fretless Stammie sounds a lot like a Thumb and to a lesser extent a Spector fretless so I love getting all the detail from that dry and growly tone.

But I'm really happy at how well it voices effects. Being an effects junkie (overdrive, fuzz, filters, phasers, flangers, LPFs, octavers, delay, tremolo etc) they all come through so well.

If I was playing hard rock, this rig wouldn't be my first choice. I'd likely opt for an Aguilar 751 and Aggie cabs or a GK rig if I wanted solid state growl. And it certainly wouldn't be my choice for a trebly pick punk setup. But for everything I currently play it's exactly what I want.
 
One other thing to note is that while cabs like say, a Schroeder 410, will get crazy loud in the upper mids, you're stuck with a top heavy sound. The Schroeder 410 is going to be not only around 10db less sensitive than its rating by 60hz, it'll be displacement limited to probably 50-75 watts a driver around there. So figure a realistic maxSPL for a Schroeder 410 to be around an optimistic 117db @ 60hz (vs the fEarful's maxspl of in the neighborhood of 125db @ 60hz).

Link Removed
 
It's not my job to convince you so no offense but I don't give a crap if you don't like the truth :) Be skeptical all you want. John_K is a believer after trying it and that guy was a way harder sell than you.

Note that every single one of the cabs you list, up to and including all of the LDS models, are more expensive than a 15.6 and weigh 10-20lbs more. They're right around the weight of a 212/6 which will get significantly louder than each and everyone of them on the low side and about as loud up top.

Also, for 4x10s over 65lbs that tons of people use:
Ampeg anything
Peavey anything (including the neo at a massive 66lbs ;)
Genz Xb and Ubers
Mesa Ph410
GK 410RBH/SBX/Neo

I'm not looking for convincing but I am interested in the truth and your statements are stretching it at best. Greenboy contradicted your statement immediately and he is a reliable source.

You said you could count the amount of 4x10s under 70 lbs on one hand and that is NOT TRUE.

Please go back and read your post and tell me where I may have misread any of these ridiculous comments...
 
I'm not looking for convincing but I am interested in the truth and your statements are stretching it at best. Greenboy contradicted your statement immediately and he is a reliable source.

You said you could count the amount of 4x10s under 70 lbs on one hand and that is NOT TRUE.

Please go back and read your post and tell me where I may have misread any of these ridiculous comments...

OK, excuse my hyperbole. "4x10s under the 1000 dollar range and 70lbs are fairly rare" - ones with extended low end are even rarer.

I'm not sure which statement Greenboy contradicted. I never claimed the 15/6 or the 212/6 will be as sensitive as a 6x10. With enough watts, either one will equal what many 6x10s will do before distorting, and exceed just about any 4x10 (unless you roll off a lot of

Either cab is about as sensitive as a high end 3x10 or mid-range 4x10 of equivalent ohms, and can take at a minimum twice as much power (if you boost lots of bass, it's more like 4x as much power in most cases).

No hyperbole there.
 
To give a little rough comparison to Greenboy's analysis of the maxspl of the fEarful cabs, here's a 6x10 with xmax-limited SPL for bass guitar (around 500w).

Low end only obviously.

basslite610.jpg


Most 6x10s do not use drivers as high quality as Em Basslites, either.
 
OK, excuse my hyperbole. "4x10s under the 1000 dollar range and 70lbs are fairly rare" - ones with extended low end are even rarer.

I'm not sure which statement Greenboy contradicted. I never claimed the 15/6 or the 212/6 will be as sensitive as a 6x10. With enough watts, either one will equal what many 6x10s will do before distorting, and exceed just about any 4x10 (unless you roll off a lot of

Either cab is about as sensitive as a high end 3x10 or mid-range 4x10 of equivalent ohms, and can take at a minimum twice as much power (if you boost lots of bass, it's more like 4x as much power in most cases).

No hyperbole there.

This is a far cry from the above post

"With enough wattage, the 15/6 will be approximately as loud as your average 6x10 before crapping out. The 212/6 will be about as loud as your average 8x10 before crapping the bed.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the number of 4x10s weighing in under 70lbs you can count on one hand. There are still a number of production 4x10s up in the 100lb range."


You're now revising what you said earlier. I'm not interested in a spitting match we obviously disagree.
 
This is a far cry from the above post

"With enough wattage, the 15/6 will be approximately as loud as your average 6x10 before crapping out. The 212/6 will be about as loud as your average 8x10 before crapping the bed.

That part is largely true in actual use and without having to roll off low end to prevent farting, so what's with the arguing?
 
This is a far cry from the above post

"With enough wattage, the 15/6 will be approximately as loud as your average 6x10 before crapping out. The 212/6 will be about as loud as your average 8x10 before crapping the bed.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the number of 4x10s weighing in under 70lbs you can count on one hand. There are still a number of production 4x10s up in the 100lb range."


You're now revising what you said earlier. I'm not interested in a spitting match we obviously disagree.

How is it a far cry from my post?

You are confusing "sensitive" and "loud." A 15/6 is as SENSITIVE AS a 3x10, but can take TWO TO FOUR TIMES AS MUCH POWER.

Therefore: a 15/6 with equal wattage will be equally as loud as a 3x10.

BUT since it can take two to four times as many watts, it will be 3db to 6db louder at MaxSPL.

A 6x10 of equivalent ohms to a 3x10 (both rate to be 5.3ohms for reasons you should be aware of) will be no more than 6db louder at maxspl (probably more like 4-5).

Therefore: A 15/6 with two to four times as much wattage will be approximately as loud as a 6x10, within a margin that most people could not tell the difference.
 
How is it a far cry from my post?

You are confusing "sensitive" and "loud." A 15/6 is as SENSITIVE AS a 3x10, but can take TWO TO FOUR TIMES AS MUCH POWER.

Therefore: a 15/6 with equal wattage will be equally as loud as a 3x10.

BUT since it can take two to four times as many watts, it will be 3db to 6db louder at MaxSPL.

A 6x10 of equivalent ohms to a 3x10 (both rate to be 5.3ohms for reasons you should be aware of) will be no more than 6db louder at maxspl (probably more like 4-5).

Therefore: A 15/6 with two to four times as much wattage will be approximately as loud as a 6x10, within a margin that most people could not tell the difference.

I will give you guys the benefit of the doubt that you are right and I am WRONG.

What your saying above on it's own would lead me to believe that a fEarful 15/6 is going to get to the same volume as two Epifani UL310s; that is a mighty task. I've played two UL310s and I have a very hard time believing this as fact. If you've ever played this rig you would probably understand my scepticism. Now let's take the fEarful 1212/6 and compare that to two Bergantino HS410 cabinets again I have a hard time believing that it gets that loud. I could be wrong I don't claim to know everything.

I have no doubt these cabs get really loud especially considering their form factor it's just very hard for me to believe they really get that loud.

If I am dead wrong and this is absolutely the case why is it that the fEarful design isn't being copied by all the big manufacturers? It's 4 times lighter then my specific examples, as loud according to greenboy and rpsands and less then half the size; not to mention it's about a quarter of the price.

Don't get me wrong if the 15/6 could grind in the mids and Ken could confirm this I would have called Don already. I don't need that kind of volume it's just very hard to grasp the claims and I'm not an EE type who likes reading graphs.
 
Hi Peter

For those of us who missed it, could you post a link to sound clips of this cab if one exists?

Muchos Gracias

If you go to any of the sound clip links KJung posted you will see an index of other sound clips he has up. I believe if you look back to about August 25 of this year in this thread you can see Ken's pick of that cab a short review and a direct link.
 
I will give you guys the benefit of the doubt that you are right and I am WRONG.

What your saying above on it's own would lead me to believe that a fEarful 15/6 is going to get to the same volume as two Epifani UL310s; that is a mighty task. I've played two UL310s and I have a very hard time believing this as fact. If you've ever played this rig you would probably understand my scepticism. Now let's take the fEarful 1212/6 and compare that to two Bergantino HS410 cabinets again I have a hard time believing that it gets that loud. I could be wrong I don't claim to know everything.

I have no doubt these cabs get really loud especially considering their form factor it's just very hard for me to believe they really get that loud.

If I am dead wrong and this is absolutely the case why is it that the fEarful design isn't being copied by all the big manufacturers? It's 4 times lighter then my specific examples, as loud according to greenboy and rpsands and less then half the size; not to mention it's about a quarter of the price.

Don't get me wrong if the 15/6 could grind in the mids and Ken could confirm this I would have called Don already. I don't need that kind of volume it's just very hard to grasp the claims and I'm not an EE type who likes reading graphs.

It is tough to say anything without driver specs, but:

When I say average 4x10 or average 3x10 and you bust out 1000 dollar apiece cabinets, it skews the comparison a little.

That said, if you set a 15/6 next to a pair of UL310s, the UL310s would PROBABLY be loud enough for you to notice the difference, but overall it would be a lot less than you expect.

If you set a 212/6 driven to maxspl next to a pair of Bergie 8x10s the bergies would probably be noticeably louder as well, but again not as much as you expect. If you replaced the Bergie 8x10 with a sealed Ampeg 8x10, I doubt you could tell the difference in volume.
 
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