I was going on the info from 18Sound. They suggested the 2500 hz point in their spec sheet. I'll talk it over with Don. And you're right, you did suggest 2khz.
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Low Down Sound Club V3
- Thread starter Chef
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I was going on the info from 18Sound. They suggested the 2500 hz point in their spec sheet. I'll talk it over with Don. And you're right, you did suggest 2khz.
The big thing there is they're aiming toward the vocal/pa market. The balance of power is such that bass can typically afford a much lower crossover for horns.
Look at what Bill's doing with the ASD1001 in his jack cabs as an example of that.
You're typing faster than me! You did suggest the 2khz way back when, I found the post, my bad.
realistically 2khz is even a *tiny bit* high for a 12 cab, but:
the advantage of the XD125 is that it doesn't require any measurement of the horn impedance points or any of that crap. saves ralf/don a lot of trouble in xover design. using a
PH612 and a high end horn driver like Duke is an option, but not only is it much more expensive but it's more time consuming. The driver you need to keep up with two 3012HOs at 15-1700hz or so is damned pricey.
Anyway, wish you luck and looking forward to hearing how the cab turns out. If you don't like it, you'll find someone who does and not lose much on trying it out - guaranteed.
GET AN ON OFF SWITCH ON THE HORN. Thank me later.
Just say no to variable attenuators. Have Ralf pad it to unity and use your eq knobs.
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
My understanding from talking to Ralf and co is that 18sound will provide them with the necessary data points for xovers -- I think other people have found this to be the case.
I'm not saying it doesn't require you know the impedance curves and everything, just that you don't have to have someone measure them, since 18sound did it.
Some of those cheaper horns don't provide impedance curves that I could find.
Anyway, the point is that there's some advantage to going with a known quantity when dealing with an unknown quantity (whether Ralf will hook your horn/driver combo up to a testing rig when designing your crossover).
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
That would be a recent change then because I've inquired about frd and zma files several times and they didn't have them and didn't seem to evince much interest.
It's possible that I misunderstood what Ralf said for sure, but I recall asking whether he had access to all the data points he needed to design an appropriate crossover for the 6nd410. Long time ago though.
I just don't see much point in using that mid driver with the HO drivers. Yes, the upper mid dispersion will be a touch better, but that is IMO a bit overstated on this site by a few, from my experience of listening to about a million bass rigs off axis out in the room.
A two x 3012HO cab with a good quality tweeter crossed over reasonably low (like on the Berg AE's or whatever) is a thing of beauty to me (I think Barefaced does something like this also). IMO and quite a bit of IME there. If I was going with the 18 sound mid, I'd go with the LF's and crossover appropriately (800hz or whatever). IMO again.
Ah, sorry about that. That should be wonderful at that 2K or whatever crossover point. Nice!
If you get a chance to try it before I pick it up, be my guest ! He just started the build yesterday.
jnewmark,
Any reason you choose the 212 with that tweet over a 112 with that tweet. Ive been debating a single 3012ho cab with a tweet because I only really need about 500 watts from a single cab and I need it to be pretty small. Do you know your dimensions of your 212 yet?
Im interested in how it sounds when you get it.
Any reason you choose the 212 with that tweet over a 112 with that tweet. Ive been debating a single 3012ho cab with a tweet because I only really need about 500 watts from a single cab and I need it to be pretty small. Do you know your dimensions of your 212 yet?
Im interested in how it sounds when you get it.
The concept of '500 watts from a cab' is meaningless. That is just a rough measure of thermal power handling. A single 12, no matter what the quality of driver, will only get so loud, and a single 3012HO (IME) doesn't sound any different with ore power, once you get a good, honest 300 or so watts into it.
Two 12's will be exponentially louder, fuller, deeper, and if the cab is made correctly, won't be that heavy at all.
I'm pretty sure the term would be logarithmically. Two 12s will be logarithmically louder than one 12. It adds 6db (3db of voltage gain and 3db from coupling).
Actually, the accepted increase is 5db, since wattage doesn't double. DB's are measured on a non-linear scale, which is the main point... a LOT louder. The nature of the non-linear increase is 'third decimal place stuff for me'.
Sometimes, we get lost in the trees, and miss the beauty of the forest
- Dec 18, 2000
- 13,201
- 340
- Disclosures
- greenboy designs: fEARful, bassic, dually, crazy88 etc
At least you guys aren't saying stuff like, "3dB is the perceptible limit of human hearing" while the other guy is saying "3dB is twice as loud" ; }
Actually, the accepted increase is 5db, since wattage doesn't double. DB's are measured on a non-linear scale, which is the main point... a LOT louder. The nature of the non-linear increase is 'third decimal place stuff for me'.
Sometimes, we get lost in the trees, and miss the beauty of the forest
Yeah
Bottom line with 3012HOs, I don't see a lot of reason to go with a single one as a rocker - two is marginally more expensive (since you're paying to have the cab built already and Don gives you a crazy cheap price on the actual woofers) and only slightly heavier. A 2x12 with 3012HOs can get by with as much internal space as any other single 12 cab, so you're talking a 40lb 2x12 here - same weight as most 1x12s.
When you're looking at 40lb 2.5cf 1x12s, buying two and scaling back when you can makes sense. When you're talking 40lb 2.5cf 2x12s, needing to scale back makes less sense.
Not that I'd begrudge someone their 25lb 1x12 with a 3012HO, but there's definitely a big reason to go with one 2x12. Not the least of which is cost.
If I had to throw out some ballpark guesses I'd guess 400 for a single 1x12 and 550 for a 2x12 from Don.
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