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Low Down Sound Club V3

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#761
Hard to say since what may sound good to you may not to me and vice versa. Some folks say they'd always go the 12/6/1 route as you can always turn down the tweet. The mid driver gives enough of a nice top end for me, but just IMO.

I still think a discussion with Don is a good thing if you plan on getting it from him.
 
#762
Here is my latest LDS cab which features two 3012HO woofers, and an 18Sound, XD125 Horn/Tweeter, Black tolex, pop out casters and attenuator for the tweeter. It measures 42.5" tall with casters in, 20" wide and 15.5" deep. Not sure of the weight, but it is definitely an easy load in/out shlepp. Still breaking in the woofers which were very stiff at first, but are starting to loosen up nicely. The 18Sound horn is LOUD ! I really have to back it off some. In a nutshell , the whole cab is the loudest cab I have ever played through, even with my little GK MB200 watter ( it was rattling picture frames in the next room ! )

The cab has so far been a challenge to EQ, definitely a midrange prominent tone that literally jumps out at you without needing a whole lot of volume. I was'nt expecting a ton of bottom with these woofers, but I am pleasantly surprised that it has enough for my 4 string Fender passive Jazz. Finding the right amp has also been fun, but right now, the GK RB700II is getting the nod. Volume at noon, and Master at 10 o'clock, Boost at 10 o'clock and a little Presence dialed in, and it is so loud that my dogs started howling ! Have'nt really had to dial in more bass yet, but I am boosting the low mids at about 2 o'clock, treble at 11, high mid at noon.

This cab is gonna take some time to get used to and dial in for my tone, but, I have no doubt that it will cut through the dense mix of my 7 piece, wedding/corporate party band-on -steriods gig, no problem. Problem is, I won't be gigging it for a few weeks, so, a more in depth review will have to wait. And, as always, Don did an excellent job !
 

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#763
Some more photos of Don's excellent tolex work !
 

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#764
Nice looking beast there J. How's the XD125 working out? Smoothly crossed over and sounding nice? That thing has always really impressed me as a packaged horn solution. And it looks like you got it high enough for you to hear it pretty well. Good layout.

It does look to me like the cab might be a little on the big side for 3012HOs, so that probably explains the big bottom. Looks like maybe 2.5 cf per driver almost if I had to guess.

On the upside if you were experimenty, you could probably drop 3012LFs or Deltalite 2512II's in there -- especially given Don's penchant for tuning a little on the lower side (I've noticed he tends to recommend lower tuning frequencies than might be "optimal" to prevent people from blowing drivers).

* btw, I found that an 800hz center frequency cut made these things sound really fat. Hope that helps.
 
#765
rpsands said:
Nice looking beast there J. How's the XD125 working out? Smoothly crossed over and sounding nice? That thing has always really impressed me as a packaged horn solution. And it looks like you got it high enough for you to hear it pretty well. Good layout.

It does look to me like the cab might be a little on the big side for 3012HOs, so that probably explains the big bottom. Looks like maybe 2.5 cf per driver almost if I had to guess.

On the upside if you were experimenty, you could probably drop 3012LFs or Deltalite 2512II's in there -- especially given Don's penchant for tuning a little on the lower side (I've noticed he tends to recommend lower tuning frequencies than might be "optimal" to prevent people from blowing drivers).

* btw, I found that an 800hz center frequency cut made these things sound really fat. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks, RP. At your suggestion, the XD is crossed over at 2khz. The transition from woofers to horn seems pretty smooth, especially with the woofers loosening up. I have wondered if drop in 12's would be an option down the road with this cab, and your comments are encouraging, but, would'nt the crossover have to be changed ? As the woofers loosen up, I believe I'm starting to hear some more " fatness ", but I will take your suggestion to heart about the 800hz cut, although I don't know exactly where that would be on the RB700II. I can do it with my old Ashly SC-40 preamp, but I'm really liking the GK so far. The cab is taller than you would expect, and this was something Don and I went around and around about, but, it was me who wanted the cab as close as possible to my ears, so it might not be optimal in size.

The biggest revelation so far for me is how the sound just jumps out at you with this cab, almost like it has it's own power source already before you even plug in anything. High Output indeed, a great name for these woofers !
 
#766
jnewmark said:
Thanks, RP. At your suggestion, the XD is crossed over at 2khz. The transition from woofers to horn seems pretty smooth, especially with the woofers loosening up. I have wondered if drop in 12's would be an option down the road with this cab, and your comments are encouraging. As the woofers loosen up, I believe I'm starting to hear some more " fatness ", but I will take your suggestion to heart about the 800hz cut, although I don't know exactly where that would be on the RB700II. I can do it with my old Ashly SC-40 preamp, but I'm really liking the GK so far. The cab is taller than you would expect, and this was something Don and I went around and around about, but, it was me who wanted the cab as close as possible to my ears, so it might not be optimal in size.

The biggest revelation so far for me is how the sound just jumps out at you with this cab, almost like it has it's own power source already before you even plug in anything. High Output indeed, a great name for these woofers !
Click to expand...

The RB700II "high-mid" control is 1Khz, so that would be pretty close. The bandwidth is probably pretty wide for the EQ on that head, but try it out.
 
#767
I could be estimating the size wrong - but it looks like it's definitely on the big side.

With the GK to get the 800hz cut your options are the contour knob or the high mids. High mids is probably the right one (1khz center according to the manual).

Glad to hear the horn/xover is working out well. Ralf definitely has the skills to do a great job there, just not really sure how much effort he gets to devote to these things. Depending on how much he tailored it is the main determiner of whether other woofers would be possible or not. Since I see an attenuator there, I'm guessing you could get away with swapping woofers by mucking with that knob.

3012HOs are monster woofers though for sure. Just insanely loud little 12s.
 
#768
rpsands said:
I could be estimating the size wrong - but it looks like it's definitely on the big side.

With the GK to get the 800hz cut your options are the contour knob or the high mids. High mids is probably the right one (1khz center according to the manual).

Glad to hear the horn/xover is working out well. Ralf definitely has the skills to do a great job there, just not really sure how much effort he gets to devote to these things. Depending on how much he tailored it is the main determiner of whether other woofers would be possible or not. Since I see an attenuator there, I'm guessing you could get away with swapping woofers by mucking with that knob.

3012HOs are monster woofers though for sure. Just insanely loud little 12s.
Click to expand...

But, would'nt the crossover need to be changed if, say I went with the 3012LF's or even the Delta Lites ?
 
#769
jnewmark said:
But, would'nt the crossover need to be changed if, say I went with the 3012LF's or even the Delta Lites ?
Click to expand...

It depends on how engineered the crossover is. If it's tailored to the impedance curves of the 3012HOs, yes. If it's just aiming toward any 4 ohm woofer load, then no. What'd change is the position on the attenuator dial.

You'd need to ask Ralf, or post a couple snapshots of the board for anyone to speculate.

(Note: An engineered crossover tailored to the 30120HO curves will perform better and sound better than a "generic" crossover; so it's obvious there are tradeoffs to using a generic textbook crossover vs. a more tailored approach -- But please don't worry about any of that. If it sounds good it is good. Don't start fiddling or worrying about it unless something is not right :).
 
#770
rpsands said:
It depends on how engineered the crossover is. If it's tailored to the impedance curves of the 3012HOs, yes. If it's just aiming toward any 4 ohm woofer load, then no. What'd change is the position on the attenuator dial.

You'd need to ask Ralf, or post a couple snapshots of the board for anyone to speculate.

(Note: An engineered crossover tailored to the 30120HO curves will perform better and sound better than a "generic" crossover; so it's obvious there are tradeoffs to using a generic textbook crossover vs. a more tailored approach -- But please don't worry about any of that. If it sounds good it is good. Don't start fiddling or worrying about it unless something is not right :).
Click to expand...

Ok, thanks, but I thought that, at least as far as the 3012LF goes, that it needs a midrange speaker to crossover to, not a tweeter?
 
#771
jnewmark said:
Ok, thanks, but I thought that, at least as far as the 3012LF goes, that it needs a midrange speaker to crossover to, not a tweeter?
Click to expand...

Depends on the frequency and how good the horn is, and what facilities you have for xovers. It'd probably work fine with a good active crossover or some good eq and the passive xover.

Might not be perfect, but if I had that cabinet and had a huge problem with lack of low end I might throw some 3012LFs in there and try it out (if I had them).

Anyway, take that for what it's worth - just random ass ruminations about the size of your cabinet making it a fairly flexible platform.
 
#772
rpsands said:
Depends on the frequency and how good the horn is, and what facilities you have for xovers. It'd probably work fine with a good active crossover or some good eq and the passive xover.

Might not be perfect, but if I had that cabinet and had a huge problem with lack of low end I might throw some 3012LFs in there and try it out (if I had them).

Anyway, take that for what it's worth - just random ass ruminations about the size of your cabinet making it a fairly flexible platform.
Click to expand...

Good stuff. It seems like if I went with the Delta Lite 12's I would be gaining some low end, but losing Xmax. Anyways, fun stuff to think about. Man, everytime I sit down with this cab I am just amazed at how the sound just jumps out of this cab !
 
#774
thudfromafar said:
just use EQ a bit if you need more low end, no need to change drivers unless you really cant get what you want with some EQ.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have three different amp rigs to choose from and I'm hoping the woofers loosen up a bit more. I'm not really a massive bottom guy to begin with, and I don't play a fiver, so, I'm hoping that the HO's will at least give me what I need from the E string. I don't think I'm gonna have any problems cutting through, though !
 
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