Low Down Sound Club V3

[lomo]

I believe that the only worthwhile comparison of a nEarful to a fEarful would involve listening to both at the same gig, both onstage and in the audience. I am doubtful that anyone could tell the difference 99% of the time, but am open to listening to someone who has actually done this, for real. I understand the differences on paper, but until and unless I see good evidence that those differences translate into real world, detectable, meaningful differences, I remain skeptical.

 

[Sliderbass]

Look, all I can say is that my misfit cabinet that is not an exact copy of greenboys design(and I knew that going in, and so did greenboy since we discussed it at some length) just spanked a Mesa 610!

Anyone looking for a mint Mesa Powerhouse 610 in MD/DC, PM me!!

 

[rpsands]

I believe that the only worthwhile comparison of a nEarful to a fEarful would involve listening to both at the same gig, both onstage and in the audience. I am doubtful that anyone could tell the difference 99% of the time, but am open to listening to someone who has actually done this, for real. I understand the differences on paper, but until and unless I see good evidence that those differences translate into real world, detectable, meaningful differences, I remain a skeptical.

When there is a scientific difference that may or may not be audible in a mix but it costs zero dollars to do the "better" way you should always 100% of the time go the better way. If it makes no difference to you, it's cost you nothing. If it makes a difference to one random person in the audience, you might never know, but is it worth the investment of zero dollars?

That's what bugs me about the mid driver/horn placement stuff It's done differently when someone knows better for no reason.

 

[mntngrown]

Congrats on your cabs arriving guys. Sacto you better check your home insurance policy for exclusions!
I am lovin my 1515/66 driven by SL900.

 

[KJung]

Well, I just received my second LDS "tall" (nEarful) 15/6 cab from Don yesterday (I received the first one a few weeks ago). They are loaded with the 3015LF and the new 18Sound 6NM410 mid driver, with a Ralf Patterson crossover at 800 hertz (modded for the 6NM driver per Greenboy's spec).

I ordered the pair of cabs with mirror image baffles so that I could stack them on their sides and have the two mid drivers near each other.

I plugged my USA Ampeg SVT-VR into these two cabs, and heard a bass tone that satisfies me like never before (and I have been playing bass for 38 years).

These cabs absolutely ROCK! I don't know how else to put it. They just rock like no other cabs I have ever played through. I not only hear the bass, but also feel it. IMO, that's what real bass is all about.

Each cab weighs about 52 pounds according to my bathroom scale. Biiiiig sound. Easy schlep cabs. At my age (54), I like easy schlep cabs. The SVT isn't an easy schlep, but it's worth the tone.

Thank you Don! And I also want to thank Ken J for testing the cabs before Don shipped them to me. Ken had really good things to say about these cabs, and now that I have heard them, I can understand why.

And playing an all-tube amp like an SVT though these cabs is pure heaven. It sounds and feels so good that it seems like it should be illegal. Here's a pic of the rig:

Congrats. It is always a treat for me to play Don's boxes on occasion prior to shipping.

Don has been a lover and manufacturer of mid driver loaded cabs for over a decade now, and really has a feel for using them (along with Ralf) IMO, be it with a 410, a 212, a 2x8, a 2x10, the 15/6 or 12/6 type boxes or whatever. Nice stuff!

Regarding mid placement, etc., I understand that there is an 'optimal' placement on paper. However, just like, for example, the comparison of a vol/vol versus blend control on a two pickup instrument, the slight impact of one design over the other tonally is easily overwhelmed by the benefits (in the case of mid driver placement, the size and format of th box) for many users.

Sometimes, some of us lose the 'forest for the trees'. There are MANY criteria on which to base cabinet performance, and often, as in most things, the 'one best way of doing things' based on any given single criterion is overbalanced by advantages based on other criteria.

 

[thudfromafar]

What are the "benefits" of placing the mid/tweeter further apart?

Agreed with rpsands, if there's nothing to lose and only possible gain, dunno why to do it otherwise. Unless there is an advantage that I'm unaware of.

 

[lomo]

That's what bugs me about the mid driver/horn placement stuff It's done differently when someone knows better for no reason.

I get that it bugs some people, but if it makes no material difference, or if someone wants it the "inferior" way for some other insignificant reason, then there is no real issue with the cab itself.

I am not trying to be trite here at all, but it'd be like someone lambasting Jimmy for not using caps anywhere. That's also "wrong", but so what? Anyway, sorry for the derail. Back to my M9/LDS 15/6 rig of total gigworthy satisfaction to try and do some shedding and suck a little less

 

[Blues Cat]

I get that it bugs some people, but if it makes no material difference, or if someone wants it the "inferior" way for some other insignificant reason, then there is no real issue with the cab itself.

I am not trying to be trite here at all, but it'd be like someone lambasting Jimmy for not using caps anywhere. That's also "wrong", but so what? Anyway, sorry for the derail. Back to my M9/LDS 15/6 rig of total gigworthy satisfaction to try and do some shedding and suck a little less

It's not just that Jimmy's not using caps, it's that he's old and not using caps.

And to stay on topic, I have another one of these in the Q.

 

[Blues Cat]

Moderator Insert:
People, play nicely here; there's absolutely no reason to get snarky with each other.

..."For the love of harassment and back talk".

 

[SactoBass]

That, Sir, is one righteous looking stack, and I'm sure it sounds even better than it looks!

Thanks lomo.

...and, it does!

 

[guy n. cognito]

Congrats. It is always a treat for me to play Don's boxes on occasion prior to shipping.

Don has been a lover and manufacturer of mid driver loaded cabs for over a decade now, and really has a feel for using them (along with Ralf) IMO, be it with a 410, a 212, a 2x8, a 2x10, the 15/6 or 12/6 type boxes or whatever. Nice stuff!

Regarding mid placement, etc., I understand that there is an 'optimal' placement on paper. However, just like, for example, the comparison of a vol/vol versus blend control on a two pickup instrument, the slight impact of one design over the other tonally is easily overwhelmed by the benefits (in the case of mid driver placement, the size and format of th box) for many users.

Sometimes, some of us lose the 'forest for the trees'. There are MANY criteria on which to base cabinet performance, and often, as in most things, the 'one best way of doing things' based on any given single criterion is overbalanced by advantages based on other criteria.

While you and I have never agreed on the LMII, I agree with post 100%.

 

[Sliderbass]

Well, I just received my second LDS "tall" (nEarful) 15/6 cab from Don yesterday (I received the first one a few weeks ago). They are loaded with the 3015LF and the new 18Sound 6NM410 mid driver, with a Ralf Patterson crossover at 800 hertz (modded for the 6NM driver per Greenboy's spec).

I ordered the pair of cabs with mirror image baffles so that I could stack them on their sides and have the two mid drivers near each other.

I plugged my USA Ampeg SVT-VR into these two cabs, and heard a bass tone that satisfies me like never before (and I have been playing bass for 38 years).

These cabs absolutely ROCK! I don't know how else to put it. They just rock like no other cabs I have ever played through. I not only hear the bass, but also feel it. IMO, that's what real bass is all about.

Each cab weighs about 52 pounds according to my bathroom scale. Biiiiig sound. Easy schlep cabs. At my age (54), I like easy schlep cabs. The SVT isn't an easy schlep, but it's worth the tone.

Thank you Don! And I also want to thank Ken J for testing the cabs before Don shipped them to me. Ken had really good things to say about these cabs, and now that I have heard them, I can understand why.

And playing an all-tube amp like an SVT though these cabs is pure heaven. It sounds and feels so good that it seems like it should be illegal. Here's a pic of the rig:

I'm waiting for my second one as well. Stacking mine the same. Did you bug my cube at work?

 

[mntngrown]

I believe that the only worthwhile comparison of a nEarful to a fEarful would involve listening to both at the same gig, both onstage and in the audience. I am doubtful that anyone could tell the difference 99% of the time, but am open to listening to someone who has actually done this, for real. I understand the differences on paper, but until and unless I see good evidence that those differences translate into real world, detectable, meaningful differences, I remain skeptical.

One TB member I have been waiting to hear from shall remain nameless.(no pressure). He replaced an LDS build of the same general size /description with a built to spec fEarful by an experienced fEarful builder. Probably busy. Or maybe I missed his comparison cause I don't read all the fEarful threads. Tho I doubt he had em both on stage at once. Shipping trucks probably passed on the highway.
Gotta work on my playlist and quit focusing on equipment! Not
You know who you are! What's the verdict? Giggin verdict not home use.

 

[kesslari]

Gotta work on my playlist and quit focusing on equipment!

Yep.

Cracks me up, though.
A pic of a "wide spread" LDS comes up, and all the apostles start freaking out and calling the beginning of Armageddon.
A couple of pics of LDS nEarful's with close-mounted mid and horn, and... crickets.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

One TB member I have been waiting to hear from shall remain nameless.(no pressure). He replaced an LDS build of the same general size /description with a built to spec fEarful by an experienced fEarful builder. Probably busy. Or maybe I missed his comparison cause I don't read all the fEarful threads. Tho I doubt he had em both on stage at once. Shipping trucks probably passed on the highway.
Gotta work on my playlist and quit focusing on equipment! Not
You know who you are! What's the verdict? Giggin verdict not home use.

I'm also going that route and am replacing my LDS 15/6 with GB spec'd fEarful 15/6 built by Art of Noise Audio. Hoping to have the GB spec'd fEarful sooner rather than later.

I am keen to hear the difference b/n the two. I expect the GB spec'd fEarful to be better or at least equal to the LDS version. If I were a betting man my assumption would be that the GB spec'd fEarful will be better since GB put so much effort into his design.

Aside from tone, I like the easier schlep factor of the GB spec'd fEarful due its dimensions, vs the squat LDS version I have now, and its additional height will be welcome on smaller stages.

 

[rpsands]

If you can't hear the difference in the mids in a private listening I would be shocked. Also in the low end when pushed hard.

 

[SactoBass]

I'm waiting for my second one as well. Stacking mine the same. Did you bug my cube at work?

No. I own a satellite in geostationary orbit 12 miles above the United States, and I covertly tap into people's conversations to extract information I find useful. So, thanks for the great suggestion for this cab stack!

It rocks like no other cab arrangement I have ever had. And with the SVT-VR, it is thunderous.

You are gonna be one happy camper!

 

[kesslari]

I'm also going that route and am replacing my LDS 15/6 with GB spec'd fEarful 15/6 built by Art of Noise Audio. Hoping to have the GB spec'd fEarful sooner rather than later.

I am keen to hear the difference b/n the two. I expect the GB spec'd fEarful to be better or at least equal to the LDS version. If I were a betting man my assumption would be that the GB spec'd fEarful will be better since GB put so much effort into his design.

Aside from tone, I like the easier schlep factor of the GB spec'd fEarful due its dimensions, vs the squat LDS version I have now, and its additional height will be welcome on smaller stages.

In your case I would expect a difference - you're comparing significantly different form factors.

Still, I do get a kick out of the number of posts on the LDS Club thread that, essentially, say "LDS doesn't build cabs the way I like them... so THEY SUCK"!

For the record, I do not think my LDS cab sucks.
In fact, it's a hell of a nice cabinet. Sounds good, too.

RP, if you want to fly out here with a "true fEarful", I'd love to A/B them.

But I can't A/B it against just anything anyone says is a fEarful, because, of course, they could have gotten their measurements wrong. I know my woodworking skills are such that I'd probably be off 1/4 inch here and there. And Greenboy's plans have to be SO precise, or it's not a fEarful.
I've stopped posting in fEarful threads. Because I don't have a fEarful. It's an LDS cabinet, and the fact that it's built very close to fEarful specs doesn't matter. I've been told that in no uncertain terms.

It's not a fEarful.
So I can't tell people who like the sound "it's a fEarful cab, designed by this cool guy Greenboy, who gives the design away - how cool is that?". Because it's not a fEarful.
So I say what I can. It's an LDS cab. It's a great cab.

 

[rpsands]

My f/nEarful is an LDS model using a crossover from Leland -- it's kind of in between. My mid driver is actually a bit far out.

I would never say LDS sucks or any such thing. I would say it bugs me when he occasionally will build a cab with the mid driver/horn farther apart or using the 1200hz crossover for no real reason I can think of

What I will never understand about Talkbass is why if you levy any criticism at all about something it means you are saying it sucks, you hate it, it should burn, etc. You guys need to stop being so borderline and take criticism for what it is...a critique of a specific nature that is not intended to be all-inclusive.

* A good example is that yes, I think Avatar is making some mistakes (using 3/4" ply for no real reason, putting the mid driver a bit further apart from the horn than it should be) -- but that doesn't mean I don't think it is a helluva cab for the money and I recommend it to people all the time.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

In your case I would expect a difference - you're comparing significantly different form factors.

Still, I do get a kick out of the number of posts on the LDS Club thread that, essentially, say "LDS doesn't build cabs the way I like them... so THEY SUCK"!

For the record, I do not think my LDS cab sucks.
In fact, it's a hell of a nice cabinet. Sounds good, too.

RP, if you want to fly out here with a "true fEarful", I'd love to A/B them.

But I can't A/B it against just anything anyone says is a fEarful, because, of course, they could have gotten their measurements wrong. I know my woodworking skills are such that I'd probably be off 1/4 inch here and there. And Greenboy's plans have to be SO precise, or it's not a fEarful.
I've stopped posting in fEarful threads. Because I don't have a fEarful. It's an LDS cabinet, and the fact that it's built very close to fEarful specs doesn't matter. I've been told that in no uncertain terms.

It's not a fEarful.
So I can't tell people who like the sound "it's a fEarful cab, designed by this cool guy Greenboy, who gives the design away - how cool is that?". Because it's not a fEarful.
So I say what I can. It's an LDS cab. It's a great cab.

^That is a GORGEOUS cab. I'd play the hell out of it.

Enjoy!